Warning - Epiphone Del Rey on Ebay

[dmeadows85]

I recently came across a listing on Ebay for a 1997 Epiphone Del Rey (as I am a prospective buyer of an amber burst/honey burst type)

 

Epiphone Del Rey - Ebay

 

Aside from the high asking price, something else concerns me a little more.

 

Counterfeits are always a concern, obviously. Thus, a serial number can at least get you so far when it comes to determining authenticity.

 

Upon contacting this seller, requesting a serial number, he absolutely refused (rudely). The guitar has been sitting on ebay for about four months now, according to the listing.

 

I was just wondering; how common are counterfeit Del Reys? For some reason, this guy was absolutely dead set against giving out a simple number.

 

That raises some huge concerns for me.

 

Not to mention his hostility. The last response he sent me was:

 

You have no right to the serial number. You have no authority to do anything but complain and waste other peoples time.

 

I would love to meet you in person.

 

- bigdavedeluxe77

 

If nothing else, I'd avoid this guy for that alone. But above all, let me correspondence with him serve as a warning to anyone who is considering this guitar. I reported the listing as counterfeit in hopes that ebay would help facilitate proof of a serial number. But who knows if that ever accomplishes anything.

 

That being said, I am in the market for a Del Rey. I have one in "Pink Burst", but the color isn't really my thing.

[RobinTheHood]

Serial numbers do not validate authenticity in any way, shape or form. There may be certain characteristics of the serial numbers on counterfiet guitars that give them away, but it is not in the information contained in the numbers. The numbers only tell you where and when the guitar was made, as well as the production number.

The seller's response is just as misdirected as the notion of asking for the serial number to verify authenticity.

 

To answer your question, there are no counterfiet Del Reys that I know of. This was not an expensive or popular guitar and had a relatively short lifespan. There was and is no money to be made by counterfieting Del Reys. Even to the Chinese counterfieters, money is the bottom line. A Del Rey isnt going to be worthwhile when it would be much more profitable to counterfiet an actual PRS.

[dmeadows85]

You make a good point.

 

I'm just wondering why the guy was so hostile about the mere request. More than anything, I was interested in seeing what plant it was made at, as some of the plants seemed to have a trend of producing not so good models, from what I've read.

 

In the listing, I see that he had the neck "treated" to feel more satin-like. I wonder if whoever treated it absentmindedly removed the serial number. Maybe I am a little picky, but I guess I wouldn't sink $500 into a guitar without a serial number, real or not. Then again, $500 is steep for a Del Rey.

[SNick]

The last Del Ray I say on CL in the Chicago area was listed at 150 It was listed for over a month before it went away. There is a real good reason why a new guitar model is only produced for a short time, usually it sucks.

[RobinTheHood]

The guitar was most likley made at the Samick plant in Korea...though I'm not 100% certain. The serial number was probably on a sticker that may or may not still be on the guitar. I guess you could ask him if the serial number is still intact. He should at least be willing to offer that info. But I agree that $500 is too much for a Del Rey...especially one that has been permanently modified by removing the gloss finish from the neck. That isnt really an upgrade to some people.

 

He was probably hostile because, much like yourself, he was/is under the impression that a serial number can determine the authenticity of the guitar. People seem to think that giving out the serial number for an Epiphone is like giving out your Social Security number. They can be very protective of it. But really, it doesnt hold all that much information. The first four or five digits are going to be common to every guitar made in that plant on that day. The last digits are the production number, but not for that model. They are the production number for the entire factory..if they even mean anything at all. So it really doesnt mean as much as people think.

 

 

[dmeadows85]

The guitar was most likley made at the Samick plant in Korea...though I'm not 100% certain. The serial number was probably on a sticker that may or may not still be on the guitar. I guess you could ask him if the serial number is still intact. He should at least be willing to offer that info. But I agree that $500 is too much for a Del Rey...especially one that has been permanently modified by removing the gloss finish from the neck. That isnt really an upgrade to some people.

 

He was probably hostile because, much like yourself, he was/is under the impression that a serial number can determine the authenticity of the guitar. People seem to think that giving out the serial number for an Epiphone is like giving out your Social Security number. They can be very protective of it. But really, it doesnt hold all that much information. The first four or five digits are going to be common to every guitar made in that plant on that day. The last digits are the production number, but not for that model. They are the production number for the entire factory..if they even mean anything at all. So it really doesnt mean as much as people think.

 

Well, from the correspondence we shared, the seller is under the idea that it will eventually sell for $500 and he wont consider other offers. That's a deal-breaker for me. I doubt he would entertain any more messages from me regarding the serial anyway.

[RobinTheHood]

Good luck to him.

He might get that much if it was a Spotlight, but I doubt for a Del Rey.

[mgrasso]

Only a nube that does not know guitars would spend that on this guitar.

I got mine for $265 including hard case.

And it is in pristine condition.

Gold hardware looks brand new.

They come up now and then so if I were you, i'd wait for the right one.

I consider all of my guitars to be priceless, but I'm also a realist and know the market.

Leave sellers like him alone and move on.

[Lord Summerisle]

When I sold my US Standard Strat on Craigslist, I received a brusque email from a potential buyer, demanding the serial number.

 

His attitude: I have to know the serial# be sure it's not fake!

 

My attitude: a.) How do I know you're not a faker in China, collecting legit Strat serial numbers to apply to your fake products? b.) Just because a guitar has a legit serial# doesn't make a guitar legit; c.) With a private, in-person sale, just come and inspect the damn thing - if you know the first thing about Strats and have researched the model I'm selling at all, then you'll know it's not a fake.

 

That sale did not progress very far. Then another buyer who knew a bit about guitars showed up, played it for two minutes, and got his wallet out.

 

Serial #s are only ever part of the picture.

 

Oh yeah, and the Del Ray looks to be the real deal.

[dmeadows85]

Only a nube that does not know guitars would spend that on this guitar.

I got mine for $265 including hard case.

And it is in pristine condition.

Gold hardware looks brand new.

They come up now and then so if I were you, i'd wait for the right one.

I consider all of my guitars to be priceless, but I'm also a realist and know the market.

Leave sellers like him alone and move on.

 

I went ahead and put in a saved search on ebay so that it will update me when one is listed.

[BigDaveDeluxe]

I asked that guy what he wanted the serial number for and he didn't mention any of that. I don't like listing id#'s on eBay period. If you know how to game the system, this can really hurt you. I didn't like his attitude either.

 

I bought this new around March of 97 while I was at Sheppard AFB, and it is made in Korea.

 

As far as the neck goes, I really dislike glossy necks, so it was recently refinished by a guitar tech, stripped all the way down to the wood where the neck and headstock were glued back together and refinished. The neck was just cracked at the joint thanks to my old Corgi knocking it out of the stand in the middle of the night. Form then on it went into a closet with some other guitars while I was away for awhile.

 

Yes, the price went up because it was getting refinished and I was using it. (price is now lower = not using it as much) I do the same thing with all my gear, eBay rent is cheap, so I list it for what I would let it go for. If someone wants to pay that price so much the better. I'm not in any rush to get rid of my stuff, but for the right price I will.

[BigDaveDeluxe]

Exactly.

 

When I sold my US Standard Strat on Craigslist, I received a brusque email from a potential buyer, demanding the serial number.

 

His attitude: I have to know the serial# be sure it's not fake!

 

My attitude: a.) How do I know you're not a faker in China, collecting legit Strat serial numbers to apply to your fake products? b.) Just because a guitar has a legit serial# doesn't make a guitar legit; c.) With a private, in-person sale, just come and inspect the damn thing - if you know the first thing about Strats and have researched the model I'm selling at all, then you'll know it's not a fake.

 

That sale did not progress very far. Then another buyer who knew a bit about guitars showed up, played it for two minutes, and got his wallet out.

 

Serial #s are only ever part of the picture.

 

Oh yeah, and the Del Ray looks to be the real deal.

[BigDaveDeluxe]

Only a nube that does not know guitars would spend that on this guitar.

I got mine for $265 including hard case.

And it is in pristine condition.

Gold hardware looks brand new.

They come up now and then so if I were you, I'd wait for the right one.

I consider all of my guitars to be priceless, but I'm also a realist and know the market.

Leave sellers like him alone and move on.

 

Not a Nube... Just Listing for what I would be willing to let it go for... I've been at this since 1997 and have made a nice amount of money buying, playing, and selling.

[mgrasso]

I think you misunderstood my comment.

I stated that only a nube that does not know what a certain model is going for would buy a guitar for more than it's worth.

You should always list what you wish for on the price of a guitar.

Does not mean that there wont be another seller selling one for a better price.

And an experience buyer will wait for the right guitar at the right price.

[wendyw]

I've never really understood the idea that a serial number alone can tell you whether a guitar is a fake or not. If you can fake the logo on the headstock you can fake the serial number as well. All you need to know is what a correct number would be. There are times that a serial number can come in useful though, if the guitar is a genuine one, but listed as the wrong age or factory, or as a warning bell if the age suggested by the serial number doesn't match up with some feature of the guitar (1988 serial number with a headstock variant introduced in 1997? Two-ply guard with a serial three years too old to have one? ), which would suggest it was either fake or 'upgraded'/repaired at some point.

 

So, yeah, I can see a serial number being useful to a buyer, but it's no guarantee of authenticity by itself.