339 Pro...Alnico Pro pups or "Probucker" ?

[dporto]

As the title asks? Huh? These haven't been around that long, have they really changed the type of pick-up used? Or, is it simply semantics/name change? I saw a video on Youtube where "Dr. Epi" (or whatever his stupid name is...white lab coat etc - talk about silly - does Epiphone think guitar palyers are mentally challenged?) where he clearly states "339 Pro due to the "Alneeko (his pronunciation)Pro" pick-ups... Then I read a cataloge description (AMS I think) of the 339 Pro that clearly states "Probucker pick-ups"... Wazzzzz up?

[Crow]

As the title asks? Huh? These haven't been around that long, have they really changed the type of pick-up used? Or, is it simply semantics/name change? I saw a video on Youtube where "Dr. Epi" (or whatever his stupid name is...white lab coat etc - talk about silly - does Epiphone think guitar palyers are mentally challenged?) where he clearly states "339 Pro due to the "Alneeko (his pronunciation)Pro" pick-ups... Then I read a cataloge description (AMS I think) of the 339 Pro that clearly states "Probucker pick-ups"... Wazzzzz up?

 

I asked that here last winter after buying my 339 pro. HERE is that thread. I noticed that the websites selling them described them one way, and EPi's website another. it was confusing. Some guys here piped in, and they couldn't agree totally either. it's a mystery..lol. But I do not think we have anything but Alnico generic style pups in these guitars. That was one conclusion from some that knew more than I. But, they sound a lot like my old Epiphone dot pups, and nothing like the Gibson 57's I put in the Dot. So I am not buying Epi's comparisons. The Gibson 57's don't have the punch these do, not the punch the old buckers in my Dot had either. In fact, I like these better than the 57's in some ways. I like the bite, I like the crunch. The 57's have a bit more adjustability in tone, but are a bit lacking for what I wanted.

But when I bought the 339 pro, I regained what I had lost when I changed the pups in my Dot. SO it's all good. I love what ever pups are in my 339 pro whatever they are. That doesn't answer your question, but I will be watching to see what answers you get this time around. It's been a while so maybe some are more up on it now.

I loved teh 339's so much, I bought two, one ebony and one sunburst, and I am thinking about changing the pups in one of them, but don't know enuff about pickups to make a good choice. I keep hearing about PAF's and I have no idea how they compare to these buckers whatever they be. But it might be a good upgrade. I don't regret changing out the pups in my Dot, but was a little disappointed wit the result. I went with two 57's , I proably should have gone with the 57+ in teh bridge.

I don't care anything about the push pull feature, I have plenty of fender single coils on other guitars. I would like to upgrade the knobs pots and pups in one of these 339's. I was just going to pose the question as to which ones should I try when I saw your post. Good luck finding an answer.

[dporto]

"Guitars with 'Pro' in the name do have the new generation pups......."

 

Oh really? And what exactly are "the new generation" pups? Where did you get this information?

 

"I prefer to care about the sound of a pup - not about the name"

 

Yhea, I agree... I could really care less about the name. It's the lack of clarity on Epiphone's part that sort of alarms me...I mean really, even if they did decide to change the pickups for whatever reason, wouldn't there be some sort of explanation/spin as to why? I think the guitar sounds great as is right off the shelf - no pup upgrades needed. I also really like the push/pull coil taps - very versatile. So maybe the "Alnico Pro" and the "Probucker" are one in the same? Simply a name change?

 

"What type of magnet do YOU think is used in the 'Probucker'...."

 

It doesn't matter what I "think", I'm looking for a definitive answer - which clearly you don't have - hence the smarmy reply

[peterswe]

"Guitars with 'Pro' in the name do have the new generation pups......."

 

Oh really? And what exactly are "the new generation" pups? Where did you get this information?

 

"I prefer to care about the sound of a pup - not about the name"

 

Yhea, I agree... I could really care less about the name. It's the lack of clarity on Epiphone's part that sort of alarms me...I mean really, even if they did decide to change the pickups for whatever reason, wouldn't there be some sort of explanation/spin as to why? I think the guitar sounds great as is right off the shelf - no pup upgrades needed. I also really like the push/pull coil taps - very versatile. So maybe the "Alnico Pro" and the "Probucker" are one in the same? Simply a name change?

 

"What type of magnet do YOU think is used in the 'Probucker'...."

 

It doesn't matter what I "think", I'm looking for a definitive answer - which clearly you don't have - hence the smarmy reply

Im also looking in to this. And what I have found ut. The pelham blue 339 PRO as probucker. The other 339 PRO modells has alinco classic pro pickups. It is their

low cost models,I think they use low cost marketing too. Confusing customer is really bad marketing...

[Bluemans335]

"Guitars with 'Pro' in the name do have the new generation pups......."

 

Oh really? And what exactly are "the new generation" pups? Where did you get this information?

 

"I prefer to care about the sound of a pup - not about the name"

 

Yhea, I agree... I could really care less about the name. It's the lack of clarity on Epiphone's part that sort of alarms me...I mean really, even if they did decide to change the pickups for whatever reason, wouldn't there be some sort of explanation/spin as to why? I think the guitar sounds great as is right off the shelf - no pup upgrades needed. I also really like the push/pull coil taps - very versatile. So maybe the "Alnico Pro" and the "Probucker" are one in the same? Simply a name change?

 

"What type of magnet do YOU think is used in the 'Probucker'...."

 

It doesn't matter what I "think", I'm looking for a definitive answer - which clearly you don't have - hence the smarmy reply

 

All of the 'Pro' models have push-pulls, which requires 3 or 4-lead wires from a PU. Until 2010, all Epi PU's had single lead wires. So to incorporate push-pulls, they went to new, upgraded PU's with 4-lead wires: Probucker and Alnico Classic Pro, both of which have A2 magnets, something else Epi PU's never had before.

[Bluemans335]

Im also looking in to this. And what I have found ut. The pelham blue 339 PRO as probucker. The other 339 PRO modells has alinco classic pro pickups. It is their

low cost models,I think they use low cost marketing too. Confusing customer is really bad marketing...

 

Using similar names 'Alnico Classic Pro' (A2 magnet, 4-lead wires) and 'Alnico Classic' (A5 magnet, single lead wire) for two different PU's has confused tens of thousands of guitar players. One of the few blunders I've seen Epi make (darn marketing department). At least Probuckers got a distinctive name.

 

Both Probuckers and Alnico Classic Pros are very good PU's. This is a nice upgrade and a great move on Epi's part, as PU's were an area that generated a lot of complaints (hence the jokes about 'mudbuckers'). Between the high level of quality and reasonable pricing, Epi's a very competitive force in the market these days. My first Epi's were 1990's Koreans, which were very inconsistent, had cheap mystery tuners, cheap mini-pots, and mediocre PU's. Today's Chinese models are much better on all counts. You get a stage-worthy guitar right of of the box.

[BaZie]

The pelham blue 339 PRO as probucker. The other 339 PRO modells has alinco classic pro pickups.

 

After reading ES-339 Pro Pelham Blue description, I am not sure what humbuckers it has. The general descrition says:

ES-339 PRO, which features [...] Alnico Classic PRO™

while on the same web page we find:

Bridge Pickup Epiphone ProBucker-3™

Neck Pickup Epiphone ProBucker-2™

 

I have a similar confusion about ES-339 Pro in other versions, e.g., Black Royale, which, according to descriprion, has Alnico Classic Pro's, but in some internet shops I found there were Probuckers.

 

Here's my thread:

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/101385-es-339-pro-black-royale/

 

BTW. For Pelham Blue, we read "Grover tuners", while on the photo there are Kluson tulip-shape ones...

[Bluemans335]

I have a similar confusion about ES-339 Pro in other versions, e.g., Black Royale, which, according to descriprion, has Alnico Classic Pro's, but in some internet shops I found there were Probuckers.

 

 

My LP Royale has Alnico Classic Pros (labels on the baseplate); one has 4 lead wires, the other has single lead. There's been some transition time and not everything is going to match the advertising copy. Alnico Classic Pros are very good, and by no means a disappointment.

[BaZie]

My LP Royale has Alnico Classic Pros (labels on the baseplate); one has 4 lead wires, the other has single lead. [...] Alnico Classic Pros are very good, and by no means a disappointment.

 

Yes, they are quite nice, I have them in Explorer Pro.

Interesting is that LP Royale should have non-Pro Alnico Classics, according to specs. If the specs for Epi guitars is something that we should count on ;-)

[bigneil]

I imagine that many epi guitars originally had the old style pickups and were awarded upgrades when epi brought in the new pickups. Which I understand a a marked improvement over the old ones.

It is almost pointless to stress about what magnets they have or how many winds they have, or any other garbled specs published on a website, , because there are so many other factors involved when it comes to defining what the final sound will be like. At best we can only make sweeping generalisations.

As some other folk have mentioned, it doesn't really matter as long you like them through your amp.

 

I agree that there is too much confusion about what the newer style pickups are, no body seems to have a clear cut definition that we can all agree on. Epi should have been clearer. I also think many sellers are also confused too and don't really know what ue put on their websites.

[Bluemans335]

Yes, they are quite nice, I have them in Explorer Pro.

Interesting is that LP Royale should have non-Pro Alnico Classics, according to specs. If the specs for Epi guitars is something that we should count on ;-)

 

I think it's a temporary thing, as they revamp most of the product line. It's bound to happen. At any given point in time, some models are bound to be in a stage that they're being upgraded. You could buy a new one that's old specs, new specs, or both. The important thing is that Epi's upgrading most models and maintaining, or lowering prices.

[Bluemans335]

It is almost pointless to stress about what magnets they have or how many winds they have, or any other garbled specs published on a website, because there are so many other factors involved when it comes to defining what the final sound will be like.

 

I agree that there is too much confusion about what the newer style pickups are, no body seems to have a clear cut definition that we can all agree on. Epi should have been clearer. I also think many sellers are also confused too and don't really know what ue put on their websites.

 

- Agree that Epi mis-marketed their upgraded PU's. Using both 'Alnico Classic Pro' and 'Alnico Classic' names is guaranteed confusion on a worldwide basis. Alnico Classic Pros are good PU's deserving of a better name.

 

- Actually PU's specs are important, as PU's are a major factor in a guitar's final sound. Many things have an impact along the way, but few as much as a PU. That's why there's a huge industry for aftermarket PU's. With low quality PU's, you don't get clarity, depth, and articulation, no matter how good the rest of the guitar is. Epi realized that there were many complaints about their old PU's ('57 Classics, etc) and a number of players were upgrading them on their own. I'm on the Duncan forum and one of the brands most often upgraded is Epiphone. PU's were their Achilles' Heel. Congrats for them acknowleding that and doing something about it.

[dporto]

So this thread is 8 months old and no definitive answer from Epiphone...curious, no?

[bigneil]

- Agree that Epi mis-marketed their upgraded PU's. Using both 'Alnico Classic Pro' and 'Alnico Classic' names is guaranteed confusion on a worldwide basis. Alnico Classic Pros are good PU's deserving of a better name.

 

- Actually PU's specs are important, as PU's are a major factor in a guitar's final sound. Many things have an impact along the way, but few as much as a PU. That's why there's a huge industry for aftermarket PU's. With low quality PU's, you don't get clarity, depth, and articulation, no matter how good the rest of the guitar is. Epi realized that there were many complaints about their old PU's ('57 Classics, etc) and a number of players were upgrading them on their own. I'm on the Duncan forum and one of the brands most often upgraded is Epiphone. PU's were their Achilles' Heel. Congrats for them acknowleding that and doing something about it.

 

You misunderstood my point. I meant that the spec's are not necicerily the defining factor in what the pick up will eventually sound like, and that you can only make sweeping generalizations like (alnico 2 magnet are more likely to yield a pickup that has a clear top end gently mids and a spongy bottom) or (alnico 5 magnets are more likely to produce a pickup that have a strong bass scooped mids and a biting but not harsh top end). but there are so many other factors that come into play like material quality, wire type and thickness, magnet shape and strength, build quality, base material, etc etc etc.

 

I do agree that the pickups are probably the most important link in your tone chase after you have found an amp that you like.

[BaZie]

Agree that Epi mis-marketed their upgraded PU's. Using both 'Alnico Classic Pro' and 'Alnico Classic' names is guaranteed confusion on a worldwide basis. Alnico Classic Pros are good PU's deserving of a better name.

 

To me, Alnico Classic Pro are more classic than Alnico Classic :-) They just sound more vintage than the non-pro version.

[CheapShoes]

Have we ever come to a consensus on what makes the Alnico Classics so muddy? I've seen vids where the same pickups had the covers on and then off, and no discernible difference in tone. It can't just be the wax as the Alnico Pros are also heavily waxed and they are very bright. I personally have removed the screw poles from one coil from a AC, and it brightened up considerably to make a quite good P90 like pickup. Only downside is looks with six little holes. That information adds data to the discussion - suggesting maybe something to do with the magnetic field.

[BaZie]

Have we ever come to a consensus on what makes the Alnico Classics so muddy?

 

IMO they are more high-output than Alnico Classic Pro, they have more wire, thus probably treble response is weaker. But I know muddier PU's, e.g., Ibanez Powersounds.

 

I personally have removed the screw poles from one coil from a AC, and it brightened up considerably to make a quite good P90 like pickup.

 

P-90 or single coil SHOULD be brigter than humbucker. It would be more interesting to find out how to make the PU sound brighter while leaving it as a humbucker.

[Bluemans335]

 

P-90 or single coil SHOULD be brigter than humbucker. It would be more interesting to find out how to make the PU sound brighter while leaving it as a humbucker.

 

More windings = less treble and clarity, and more midrange. A bridge HB under 8K is bright, as is a neck HB around 7K. Magnets also play a part, A5's have the most treble, A2's the least.

[CheapShoes]

On the other hand, if I recall, my Alnico Classics were around 8K in my 355, and fairly muddy. Same pickup as the neck pickup in an LP or Flying V. The bridge in the solid bodies of course was much more overwound.

By comparison Gibson Dirty Fingers is an extremely bright pickup and wound to about 16K. But it uses three A5 magnets and screw poles on both coils to achieve that effect.