Becoming your parent's parent

[Izzy]

As I noted, it ain't easy, there ain't any good answer.

 

Honestly, I think all technological societies are discovering how the paradigms of the pre-technological order of life clash with expectations of the economics of our digital device era.

 

Yet "we" evade the types of question Izzy asks - until "we" are thrust into such dilemmas. And then ... we discover the older dispensations no longer carry relevant answers.

 

m

 

The era shoudln't make a difference, though. Wanting an unlimited number of things we don't need and chosing to work more to pay for them thus leaving less time to tend to our elderly is a choice. An aging parent can be an asset. Who better to watch your kids than your mom/dad (always exceptions, of course)? What better way to teach your kids about family while ingraining a sense of duty in them?

 

It isn't society, it's us. We want our kids out of the house asap so we can get back to being independent and unrestrained only to discover that one day our kids will want the same things and throw us away.

[stein]

The era shoudln't make a difference, though. Wanting an unlimited number of things we don't need and chosing to work more to pay for them thus leaving less time to tend to our elderly is a choice. An aging parent can be an asset. Who better to watch your kids than your mom/dad (always exceptions, of course)? What better way to teach your kids about family while ingraining a sense of duty in them?

 

It isn't society, it's us. We want our kids out of the house asap so we can get back to being independent and unrestrained only to discover that one day our kids will want the same things and throw us away.

Yea, but...but...but...here's a twist.

 

I was lucky enough to be able to live with my Grandmother for a few years when I was roughly 18-22. She didn't WANT us to move out. She prefered we live with her rather than on our own, and not for health reasons. So long as we had a job, she was happy. In fact, she had a part time job of her own.

 

We could say, this is due to a generation gap. She came from a very small town, and likely in HER place and time, family lived together more and depended on each other more. Young adults just didn't move out until they were married, or perhaps not at all even if they were.

 

This was about..I guess late 80's early 90's. It was sort of looked down upon for a young adult to be living with your parents at that time. So, while there was no shame on her part, she was definitely aware of what "society" felt at the time, and aware of the pressures for a young man to want to move out. But, while she didn't want to pressure anyone that way, she definitely gave a little pressure of her own to have me stay. This really is why I did for so long, as I didn't really have to.

 

So, a couple questions: I mention the time (80's early nineties) because I wonder what it is TODAY, as rent/mortgage prices are VERY different now. Is there any shame or looked down upon sharing a dwelling with parents today?

 

For me, I learned a LOT from my Grandmother during that time. I actually got to know the woman more than I would just seeing her at family functions or visiting. So, my other question is this: Except for purposes or going to school, saving money, or caretaking, does anyone (society in general) recognoze the value or see any value of living with your elders during young adulthood? or any time?

[stein]

Sinse I am into it, I might continue on with my limited experience.

 

I moved back with my grandmother for a time to give school a go, but ended up going back to work. In that time, I had made plans to move out of state (or, back out of state) to start my life again there. But, during that time, my Grandmother wanted to have a back operation and asked that I stay until she recovered.

 

Of corse, I did. Glad to. But before THAT operation could happen, she needed a few more first. (Heart, neck artery, etc. You basic "rebuilding" stuff). So, instead of a few weeks or months, it was more like a year, year-and-a-half.

 

I worked construction, and that's really what made this even possible. I didn't get "fired" or loose much of anything if I needed a few weeks off here and there. And, she wasn't in a state of real deterioration, so I didn't experience that. Also, she didn't require any real caretaking, just maybe a little help getting up or down a few times.

 

It WAS relatively easy. At the most, I have to be sure to stay at home to keep an eye on her, and this only lasted a matter of days. And after that, I could leave the house for longer periods of time if I needed or wanted. And again, no real financial burdon to me or her. The worst might be the bordom at times.

 

The thing that actually DID play a part in it though, is during that time, my life was sort of on hold. Dating didn't make any real sense or sense of hope, sinse I was leaving at some point. And, same with getting on with a steady employer. So, there was no building a life at that time. She knew it, and so did I. It was kinda tough in that regard.

 

My only other real "responsibility" for future caretaking might be my father, but I currently don't enjoy a relationship with him. We don't talk, or get along. This is partly due to twice in the past where I had him living with ME, because he needed/wanted help and I wanted to help him. Both times, it didn't work out because he couldn't "behave" himself. It was a little more than point's of view. Actually, a lot more. He caused major problems with my life and relationships doing what most would call 'wrong'. And, being honest, there is a lot of anger there on my part.

 

As far as my father goes, I do wonder and consider, if and when the time comes, if I COULD take care of him, and his ability to cause trouble might not be there if his health woun't allow it. I also question what I WOULD put up with in that case, and where I might be with it. I also question my obligations and responsibilities to others in my life as far as having to put up with his crap, and what is fair to then and where HIS responsibiliy is involved with that aspect.

 

This, of corse, is IF there is even the ability to do such a thing. As has been brought up, they way society is set up today, it might not even be an option for some. As an example, if both parties in THIS house do not go to work each day, there IS no house to live in, let alone taking care of someone. And we certainly couldn't afford to hire it out. I am sure my situation is more common than uncommon.

[milod]

Izzy...

 

Actually everything you said was what I said - just without necessity for parsing the sentences. <chuckle>

 

The era does make a difference, IMHO. "We" are still the social animals we were as soon as mankind discovered how to reliably make fire, but for the first time familial and social group relationships are changing more rapidly than any other time in history.

 

I blame that personally on two factors: Increasing mobility for those capable of it and decreasing communication with those outside a degree of physical propinquity. Also, I'm not just looking at the U.S., but at all societies that are into our current technological and urbanization trends.

 

"We" increasingly are into our nuclear family and/or what one might call a "nuclear friendship base." Old schoolmates, parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins... who are they? Why have they become so different from "us?" I have a batch of cousins, for example, who are much farther to the left politically - and I'm not kidding - than any political significant figure in Europe today. IMHO, "Wingnuts" to use that term.

 

I'm not saying that to criticize their politics. I'm pretty well past that anyway. They're quite happy with them and I'm happy they're happy. We simply have nothing in common but a few genes.

 

The point is that time and distance, lack of communication, lack of common peer-group feedback, lack indeed of much commonality beyond species, creates gaps that become chasms.

 

One might suggest that many immigrants to Anglophone North America in the 18th, 19th and 20th Centuries encountered similar circumstances once a specific family/friendship group had made the jump and others did not.

 

You're "right" at every point in terms of benefits of a close friends and family set of relationships. Our current "developed world" culture doesn't include that in the paradigm.

 

Yes, "we," you and I and most others here, IMHO functionally as a group can expect far less generational caretaking than what previous generations have received. It ain't "Latin" or whatever; all rural societies had that regardless of wealth, as long as they remained "rural" in their cultural paradigm.

 

"We" ain't rural any more. It would be nice to say in our more developed, urbanized, high population density and digitized era, "politics enters here because we figure government should take are of the ill and elderly."

 

I think that's a copout too.

 

The real thing "we" don't want to admit is that "We" have decreasing social capital. Rich, poor, government "dole" or able to spend billions, "We" increasingly resemble a culture of Howard Hughes figures where regardless of cash, medical advances and capabilities, ain't nobody there who cares because "we" made it that way.

 

Yeah, I'm cynical. Sorry. Google "social capital," by the way. Again, it ain't politics, but culture...

 

A possible starting point is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital

 

m

[RaysEpiphone]

I've have been unemployed for some time now and my parents have let me back in there home, I'd rather be out but money is tight. My parents are elderly and my dad would likely need to be in a care facility if I wasn't there to help him at time's so it's not to bad.

[DanvillRob]

This is exactly what makes this forum so special.

 

Friends of every stripe discussing a common issue.

 

Great insite into people's childhood, and parent/child relationship.

 

Each is different, and each is important.

 

My parents are long dead, but both lived in their home 'til their passing, (Dad at 80, Mom at 75).

 

Me and all my siblings helped what we could, and I'm grateful my older sister moved in and "took over".

 

Was a good deal, she needed a place to stay close to her work, and Mom needed a little help.

 

God Bless you all for surviving your circumstances.

[Izzy]

@ stein

 

It is very different to have your parents live with you than to live with your parents in society's eyes, no doubt. For men all the more. When a woman sais, "I live with mom," many assume she is taking care of her or she is old fashioned an wants to move out only after she's found her man-half.

 

Men are expected to go out, forge/erect/conquer something or another and return with wealth and a woman and a baby and say, "look what I did!" Not to get sexist, but that's just how many ethnic groups, including mine, view things.

 

That having been said, there are exeptions:

I can tell when someone is just mooching and when someone is being a loving family member of a home. If a guy who lives with his gran, for instance, tells you about something funny she said last week, or mentions that he has to get (insert random item) for grandma at the store, or gives any other indicative of involvement, he's okay by my book. If he never mentions her and treats his situation as not ideal, then he's a jerk and needs to get over himself.

[retrosurfer1959]

I was gonna watch this a while but the comments have been good and sadly consistent. Your mom needs your help understood and understood why you would want to help but don't let guilt ruin your life caring for her. Your mom has other choices and her not willing to live with you while your chosen partner is there changes the game for me at least. I would help, but why should she expect you to change your life to suit her that's wrong and i wouldn't do it. If she runs out of options I'd be willing to bet she get's a little more open to living as your guest not running your life. If she won't sadly that's her choice. I don't know if it's more prevalent in females or not but guilt controls way to many factors in our day to day lives. I would let my mother be homeless before I would kick someone out of my home that I care about. When were children we don't make the rules when the roles change you need to become not only the caregiver but the rule maker if you love your girlfriend and that's your life choice, than tough mom better get on board or she has some very hard choices to make. she won't live with her mother and she won't live with you unless your girlfriend moves out well to bad she'll have to learn to be a little more flexible in her demands or she's gonna have a tough choice to make. Our parents had us and they cared for us in the way hey thought was best. but as adults you have to change that dependency and make it very clear they don't make the choices in your life anymore. My wife's mother is a expert at the guilt game as I call it but I won't play period.

 

If your mom is trying to make rules say no, she'll come around if not because she wants to then because she has no choice if it's you and your girlfriend or a cardboard box and a can of cat food i would bet your girlfriend turns out to be ok after all.

[Izzy]

@ retosurfer

 

Thanks for that, man. I think I forget sometimes how to articulate these things in my own mind and I think to myself, "there is something in my gut making me resent her for being like this, but what?" For some reason I expect her to be this way and that expectation makes her behavior somehow acceptable. Its nice to get validation from outside.

[Searcy]

I think I would let her know that there is help for her at your place but she don't get to take over. I would also let her know that your relationship isn't something she has to like but it is something will respect or at the least be civil about.

 

My mother doesn't live with us but she does stay with us from time to time. My wife and my mother have a hard time getting along because they are both very strong minded women who will gladly run your life for you if you let them. My mother has learned that in my home I will never side with her against my wife in a dispute. While my mother doesn't like it she does understand that I will show her the door if she raises too much fuss over it. So it's in her best interest to talk and plan things out with my wife instead of trying to play games and manipulate people.

 

It's not easy setting down the rules but life is better after doing so.

 

Hope that helps.