Another Rush Thread From Your's Truly

[kaleb]

OK, everybody knows I'm a Rush nerd. But I gotta say, their material after Moving Pictures (with the exception of a few tunes I like here and there, such as "The Analog Kid", and "Leave That Thing Alone") doesn't work for me so much anymore (their last two albums are great. Clockwork Angels is easily their best album since MP. Vapor Trails blows IMHO. It's their Psycho Circus). I often think about where they could have gone. They could have brought Prog Metal into the 80s and stuck with that. I understand that they were being true to their musical visions, but I like to hear Alex Lifeson wail away. Too much synth, man. And don't get me wrong, I love The Police and all. But when I want big, chorused-out chords, reggae beats and funky basslines I'll put on Synchronicity or something. That's not what I think of when I think of Rush.

 

All in all, I kinda feel betrayed, in a couple different ways, mostly by Geddy. Alex will always be cool with me (and Neil when he's not cutting down his best work. He really slams Hemispheres and Caress Of Steel), but a lot of the stuff Geddy says just pisses me off (although some of it shoudn't). For example, he'll talk about how great Radiohead is (he says he sees Rush influence...), while he seems to ignore the bands Rush really influenced like Dream Theater and Tool. The big kicker for me is him and his opinions about "basic" music, and "simple" bands (maybe opinion wasn't the right word). As a musician who likes to play blues, AC/DC, KISS/Ace Frehley stuff, Sabbath (although they weren't really simple...), southern rock, and anything related to that (and makes a few bucks here and there doing it), I kinda find that a little offensive. He has to realize that Rush started with riff rock. I love that first album as much as anything else in their catalog. Just because their later stuff is more complex (and lyrically superior, although "Working Man" has great simple lyrics IMHO) doesn't mean it's necessarily better. It's not that album is cliche or anything; they were a kickass rock band before they were a kickass prog rock band. I recall seeing TV interviews with him circa Grace Under Pressure, which would be 1984, and him cutting down heavy metal. Sure, a lot of it was a little cliche, but c'mon, the guitar bands of LA were in their prime, and the Thrash scene was in full throttle. You know, the fact that Rush has been hailed as one of the greatest heavy metal bands of all time yet he doesn't seem to appreciate it. Of course, he definitely appreciates what he's done, but the heavy metal scene that holds a lot of his fans seems to be sorta lost on him. Why do these people need the flattery of being called "artists"? I mean, Ged's a nice guy and has a good sense of humor and is a philanthropist and all, but this is just pathetic to me. I'm open-minded enough to love all eras of the band, but if Rush had started with Signals, I probably wouldn't even be a fan at all (not saying I would not like them, mind you). To put it simply, Geddy seems a little arrogant and pretentious in my eyes (especially compared to Alex...). Rush seems to like to identify themselves with bands like U2, but there is no comparison to me. The Edge has a few textures, but he ain't no Alex Lifeson. Sometimes I'm a little surprised I'm as big of a fan as I am, cause' I'm not exactly a Prog nut (I like King Crimson a ton), and I don't care for U2 or anything like that. I'd rather listen to some Deep Purple or UFO, but whatever. That's just me. I'm speaking for my heavy metal brothers here (including Eddie Trunk). Just to let out my last bit of Rushian distress, if Geddy heard my band, he probably wouldn't be that interested. Kinda hurts, in a way. We do "Working Man", though. And a lot of my soloing is influenced/inspired by a lot of the stuff Alex used to do in the 70s.

 

I'm sorry if this post is a bit stupid, unfocused, and self-absorbed on my part, but I had to get this outta my brain.

 

I hate saying this, but Rush did betray me. Just like KISS betrayed me (but for different reasons altogether!! I still continue to support Rush and will go see them. Not true for KISS, or this version). Ya' know why I love Ace Frehley so much? He never betrayed me.

 

****, I should right a song about all this.

[jdgm]

Well Mr K....

From the plethora of replies you already have had to this post I'd say there is no way, Kaleb that you have not totally set the cat among the pigeons with this one...as they say...ahem.

 

But seriously:

I am not into Rush so I cannot really comment on your post, yet obviously you write from the heart so I plus you for your sincerity. Or were you drinking?

The fact is we all make a huge psychic and emotional investment in our favourite music, of course we do. And then we grow and must change and (very likely) 'grow away' from what we listened to, loved and were motivated by. I'm beginning to sound very patronising here so I'll shut up and hope that maybe some forum members who are into Rush would like to come in on this one?

 

I think it's an interesting post. Regards!

[kaleb]

Well, I wrote this really late at night (or early in the morning...for that matter), and my mind wasn't in the best place.

 

I think Rush up until 1981 was the tops. Those albums blow me away to this day. They blew away all of their contemporaries, including KISS (love old KISS, but not really great musicianship), Aerosmith (overrated IMHO), and an ailing Zeppelin (Rush took over for Zep when their first record came out in 74'. Incidentally, that's when Zep died! Even though Physical Graffiti and Presence were great albums, they're not as mind-blowing as the first two Zep albums IMHO. Plus, Plant had lost his voice and they weren't good live anymore), except for bands like Thin Lizzy, Alice Cooper, UFO, Scorpions, AC/DC, Van Halen, Sabbath, Montrose, plus all of their prog predecessors, who were all just as mind blowing in their own ways, to me. And, honestly, I can't think of a better album to end that run with than Moving Pictures. After that, it wasn't the same. I'm not implying that the later stuff is not as good, it's just different.

 

But Ged's attitude towards some aspects of rock music tend to rub me the wrong way. Actually, one of my musical goals is to take AC/DC-type blues rock and combine it with Rush stuff.

[stein]

I think you may be giving your man Mr. Lee a bad rap here.

 

You assume what music he likes to listen to, or find more or less value in, in that you expect it to be the same as your's or someone else's. Is that really fair?

 

For instance, being a RUSH fan does not obligate me to liking the same music that they might listen to in their free time. But even more so, THEY are not required to like what I like. If I liked YOUR music, would you hold me to a standard of liking the stuff you like to listen to? Or better yet, same thing: would you discount me if I was your fanboy and also was a fan of U2?

 

I think that you shouldn't feel hurt, or let down by another that doesn't share your same taste or like the same things you do, same as I shouldn't be hurt by what you like or don't like. I don't think this should CHANGE when liking someone else's music they have made for us.

 

If it is personal, as if to LIKE the person or not like that person, perhaps THAT can change how you feel about their music to you. But if so, let me ask you this: Isn't Gene Simmons far more of an *** than Geddy Lee? Why would what music Geddy Lee likes have more of an impact on you than what these guys act like and treat others like?

[kaleb]

I think you may be giving your man Mr. Lee a bad rap here.

 

You assume what music he likes to listen to, or find more or less value in, in that you expect it to be the same as your's or someone else's. Is that really fair?

 

For instance, being a RUSH fan does not obligate me to liking the same music that they might listen to in their free time. But even more so, THEY are not required to like what I like. If I liked YOUR music, would you hold me to a standard of liking the stuff you like to listen to? Or better yet, same thing: would you discount me if I was your fanboy and also was a fan of U2?

 

I think that you shouldn't feel hurt, or let down by another that doesn't share your same taste or like the same things you do, same as I shouldn't be hurt by what you like or don't like. I don't think this should CHANGE when liking someone else's music they have made for us.

 

If it is personal, as if to LIKE the person or not like that person, perhaps THAT can change how you feel about their music to you. But if so, let me ask you this: Isn't Gene Simmons far more of an *** than Geddy Lee? Why would what music Geddy Lee likes have more of an impact on you than what these guys act like and treat others like?

 

You totally missed my point, which I ADMIT is pretty unfocused.

 

Just because I don't like Radiohead doesn't change anything. That's absolutely fine. I just feel that he should recognize his disciples like Dream Theater and Tool a little more. It's always good to give thanks to the people you influenced. At least the whole band befriended Primus.

 

Maybe he just ain't good at delivering his opinions. His comments about "bar bands" and "basic music" are a little hurtful to his fans that play that kind of stuff (me). It's great if he doesn't like what I do, but don't cut down riff rock WHEN YOU STARTED OUT WITH IT!!!!

 

I never said Ged was an asshole. Gene Simmons is one, and he proudly admits it. I think Ged is great. Some of his comments just kinda let me down. It's got nothing to do with his taste in music, it's the fact that he seems embarrassed by "simple rock". As a human being with the right to free speech, I can cut down rap music because I've never done it. If I went into synth pop and started hating blues, I could never do that because I play (or, in that scenario played) it. It just makes him seem like a hypocrite. Alex and Neil both keep that in mind. Hell, Alex seems to embrace it, considering he's a big Pat Travers fan. But, then again, of course Ged ain't gonna love "guitar rock" that much: he's a bass player.

 

And if there's one thing you people should know by now, it's that I always have a chip on my shoulder and I am the master of holding a grudge. ****, I'm worse than Jim Norton.

[Unionman]

You may not like 'Vapor Trails' but at least they ditched the synth, which was totally dominating/ruining their sound.

[kaleb]

You may not like 'Vapor Trails' but at least they ditched the synth, which was totally dominating/ruining their sound.

 

There was no synth, but I think the album is too soft and weak. But I respect the some of the songs considering they were coming from Neil's personal tragedies.

 

I think it's kinda sad that they did prog metal epics better than anyone else and they ditched it. It would have been cool if they had gotten heavier and took prog metal to the next level, but they wanted to be like The Police instead apparently.......Neil says he would like Moving Pictures to be their first album, but I proudly disagree. Most of us are Rush heads because of what they did between the first album and that. I know they were following their musical visions and I respect that, but jeez. I like a lot of songs from the post-MP era, but all the albums MP (or Exit....Stage Left if you count that) and before are quintessential albums for me. I don't need the post-MP albums. I have the songs I like already. If it were my way, it'd be less snyth and more Alex Lifeson. It sucks that they didn't embrace heavy metal.

[LPguitarman]

Wow Kaleb, You and I are almost exactly alike. I too lost track of RUSH after Moving Pictures, and started getting into them again on their last two albums. I couldn't comment on Geddy as much as you simply because I don't read alot of articles or interviews so I wouldn't know what he said anyway. I just listen to the music, and play as much of it as possible when I play my guitar.

 

I agree on your comments on the first album. I love Alex's style, and I also hate it when Neil "bashes" himself. Hemispheres and Carress of Steel are among my favorite RUSH albums (two of many).

 

Great thread.

[Unionman]

There was no synth, but I think the album is too soft and weak. But I respect the some of the songs considering they were coming from Neil's personal tragedies.

 

I think it's kinda sad that they did prog metal epics better than anyone else and they ditched it. It would have been cool if they had gotten heavier and took prog metal to the next level, but they wanted to be like The Police instead apparently.......Neil says he would like Moving Pictures to be their first album, but I proudly disagree. Most of us are Rush heads because of what they did between the first album and that. I know they were following their musical visions and I respect that, but jeez. I like a lot of songs from the post-MP era, but all the albums MP (or Exit....Stage Left if you count that) and before are quintessential albums for me. I don't need the post-MP albums. I have the songs I like already. If it were my way, it'd be less snyth and more Alex Lifeson. It sucks that they didn't embrace heavy metal.

 

I have had their first album and 'Permanent Wave' for years, just bought Vapor Trails and 'Clockwork'; all great. Yes, maybe Vapor Trails is not so focused. Just glad synth gone. 'Fly by Night' is next to explore. You've probably seen this, but I like this clip:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB6sRQQBH6E

[kaleb]

Wow Kaleb, You and I are almost exactly alike. I too lost track of RUSH after Moving Pictures, and started getting into them again on their last two albums. I couldn't comment on Geddy as much as you simply because I don't read alot of articles or interviews so I wouldn't know what he said anyway. I just listen to the music, and play as much of it as possible when I play my guitar.

 

I agree on your comments on the first album. I love Alex's style, and I also hate it when Neil "bashes" himself. Hemispheres and Carress of Steel are among my favorite RUSH albums (two of many).

 

Great thread.

 

A lot of people lost them after MP. I didn't necessarily lose them. I always gave them support. It's the same thing with KISS after Ace left: I kept following them and supporting them (mostly because of Eric Carr and the badass six-stringers they had, including Bruce Kulick), but I got more excited for Frehley's Comet than Crazy Nights. It would take a lot for me to stop loving and supporting them (this new "KISS" has crossed the line with me). Them changing their style to where it wasn't even rock music turned me off, but it's great material nonetheless. I can put on Fly By Night or Permanent Waves and listen to them front to back and they'll blow me away any day of the week. I can't say that's true for Power Windows (although I really like "The Big Money". I might do a heavy rock version of that). But my point is this: Of all the Rush fans out there (you and I included), I'm sure the majority of us wouldn't be fans at all had they started with MP. I love Neil and I respect him more than a lot of people, but every time he makes that statement I wanna smack some sense in his face. He's noted for his drumming on 2112, not Presto. But the new one kicks ***, and I can proudly say that it's their heaviest and most cohesive album since MP, which is really saying something.

 

And don't get me wrong, I love The Police and all sorts of new wave from that era, but when my favorite bass player isn't even playing a bass and Alex is being pushed aside for a synth, I go looking for something else.

 

As for Neil bashing himself, it's good to be a self-critic, but don't try and shove it down my throat that my favorite Rush album (Hemispheres) sucks. And saying that he'd be fine with MP as their first album is depressing. It's like "DOES 2112 MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU??".

 

As far as Geddy goes, he shouldn't cut down "riff rock" while the band proudly closes their shows with "Working Man" (I should add that I've always hated the way Neil plays that one). Here's a video of him doing so (ever so professionally, too!)........This video is funny because Neil is doing all the talking and Alex isn't! Plus, he looks stoned out of his mind!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOqB4rmmlXc