Autumn Light&Shade Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Oh pooh I forgot about Thomann's. I should have remembered; they don't ship to the U.S.. Apologies to you, AL&S and thank you fg for noticing and helping out. Hi, SouthernBoogie78 and fingers galore, thank you so much for your help in my quest for a lefty Les Paul. Spent yesterday doing my research on import taxes/duties. WOW! Just checked out the Thomann site, I have never seen so many lefty guitars :) Thomann includes the 20% vat, and as I live in the UK, I won't have to pay import duties, due to being in the EU. Okay, now I've just got to remain level headed (kid in the sweet shop syndrome). :) :) I really appreciate all the help. Kind regards, Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 ... That's ideal saddle positions and detailed tailpiece angling, IMO. I try to achieve this as well. ... Adjustments will have to match intonation, not looks. Every single guitar is different, and the settings of quite a few of mine don't look average so to say. There are even weirder seeming adjustments in my arsenal, but for Les Paul guitars refer to the pics in this post: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/115607-show-us-your-les-paul-guitars/page__view__findpost__p__1573077 This one is my Traditional 2013 to give an example. The E6th is close to the E1st in compensated length: Hi, SouthernBoogie78 and fingers galore, thank you so much for your help in my quest for a lefty Les Paul. Spent yesterday doing my research on import taxes/duties. WOW! Just checked out the Thomann site, I have never seen so many lefty guitars :) Thomann includes the 20% vat, and as I live in the UK, I won't have to pay import duties, due to being in the EU. Okay, now I've just got to remain level headed (kid in the sweet shop syndrome). :) :) I really appreciate all the help. Kind regards, Emma I know it all to well. My daughter is a lefty, and although she's not a guitar or bass player up to now, I view lefty instruments as well, in advance so to say. Try to imagine my righty player sweet shop feeling... Anyway, to my experience, having always the right guitar to choose from is the best for me to stay level headed. B) To achieve this, I bought eighteen guitars and basses at Thomann over the years... ... and there have been some more dealers, too. :o Running short of desired sound colours has been the #1 reason for my G.A.S. attacks, but since October 1st, 2014 I'm done. At least I think so, but I can never predict what kind of song I will write next, perhaps already today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Rev Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I just played 2 of the new Gibson Les Paul 2015's. A Classic and a new Studio. The necks felt like I was playing an Ibanez 7 string... For that reason alone I will be looking for pre 2014 Les Pauls going forward unless Gibson does an about face turn around. And really Gibson - why produce a model called the Traditional and make it like every other guitar in your 2015 line up. Either come out with a traditional that's true to it's name or discontinue the guitar all together. As a long time Gibson fan I am super disappointed in the 2015's Seems like they are a long way off the mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Sure, cap, no problem. I guess I was just thinking out loud (again). Anyway, I discovered something last week that I never knew while setting up my LPJ: Gee I hope I say this right. Tailpiece angling (raisng and/or lowering) has a direct relationship to neck relief on the associated side of the neck. After meticulous measurements, I got both the High and Low E's to the perfect 'neck relief' clearance by adjusting the TP height/level. The end results were saddles and TP that, after final TP and intonation adjustments, wound up looking like L84's Trad, as well as a lot of others (in photos) I've noticed. No biggie. I guess saying clearance you talk string action here. You're right, breaking angle will affect action as well as bridge height will, most for E6th and plain G3rd or B2nd in case of a wound G3rd. However, very subtle changes in action won't affect amount and angle of tension for the neck significantly. Measurement of neck relief is done at 7th...8th fret while fretting at 1st fret and 13th...16th fret. The latter should be the last fret before transition to the neck heel. Due to fretting at two frets the same time you will get a value independent of nut and saddle, and thus action, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Bagged a 2013 Traditional in Honeyburst. I am so impressed, I am thinking of selling my 2003 Standard to buy another 2013 in Cherry Sunburst! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 No, sir. I am not referring to action. I am talking about neck-relief string clearances. First, I adjust the neck to my liking (with just a slight bow). Then I do a rough intonation (based on half-scale measurement). Then I set my action and check for choking and buzz. Then I check ALL 'neck relief' points. Then I do what I described in my previous post. ...FYI, I check relief according to the Gibson User Manual. Fret 1st and 14th...check 9th. And then 15th and check 7th. Neck relief readings will depend on how hard you fret, bend the neck through fretting, or gravitation aka G force... ... not necessarily robo tuning here. ;) All kidding aside, neither nut nor bridge nor action will affect neck relief, but any measurement or adjustment will only make sense in correct playing position due to gravitation. Tuning included, as a matter of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Agreed...but the Tailpiece height and angle will and does affect neck relief, IMO. Never encountered this in over thirty-two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Anyway, I discovered something last week that I never knew while setting up my LPJ: Gee I hope I say this right. Tailpiece angling (raisng and/or lowering) has a direct relationship to neck relief on the associated side of the neck. After meticulous measurements, I got both the High and Low E's to the perfect 'neck relief' clearance by adjusting the TP height/level. I'd be surprised if you theory is true. It's not consistent with structural theory or experience. Did you raise and lower and tailpiece a number of times and observe movement in the neck back and forth each time in a reproducible way? Or did the trussrod slip in all the jacking up and down? You said that the relief can be independently controlled by adjusting the tailpiece on either side. I'd double check your tests. But the other thing is, you don't adjust the neck relief by raising and lowering the tailpiece. Then your break angle is messed up, plain and simple. You leave the break angle over the bridge at 15 to 20 degrees and adjust the relief using the trussrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hey BBP...I addressed your questions/comments within your quote above. Think of it this way, please: What happens to string tension when TP is all the way down? Answer - it increases. More tension = more pull on the neck. Raise it up? String tension decreases... SO, if either the H or L E string is ever so slightly not in optimum distance from fret 12, well you can see my point. TP height does NOT change tension. If it did, you wouldn't be in tune any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 TP height does NOT change tension. If it did, you wouldn't be in tune any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Easier bending happens because of reduced saddle friction, which allows the section of string between saddle and TP to participate in the bending action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Gee that's funny, cap. You yourself helped clear up this matter a while back with another member. You said that 'less string tension, easier bending'! Naturally, I agreed. Less string tension means easier bending. However, tension at a given tuning pitch will only depend on string and scale length including compensation, nothing else. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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