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All I'm saying is that on a Gibson Les Paul, when tuned to standard A440, the lower the TP, the more 'pull' on the neck.


if so, then this would also be true on any guitar with a bridge and tai piece


but is it true?


I am struggling trying to understand the geometry and forces involved and have to admit that I don't see how you arrived at your conclusion


once the string goes over the bridge saddle the tension is set by the tuners to get in 440


maybe I am dense today but can you explain how the angle of the string behind the bridge pulls on the neck more than otherwise


edit: in fact as I think more about it, seems there would be more pull on the neck creating more relief by having a straighter pull

between the tail piece and bridge, a shallower angle (higher tail piece) I hope someone can help me get this

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Hi norton and thank you for being both inquisitive and respectful.


Please refer to Post #45 in this thread.


It is a fact that on a Gibson Les Paul with a TOM bridge, it is harder to bend strings with the TP all the way down.


Raise it up and bending becomes easier. So, when the TP is raised, less tension exists between the TP and the Headstock.


Likewise, more tension exists with the TP all the way down. Both scenarios involve tuning to standard A440.


It is as simple as that, IMO. I was taught this by a Certified Master Luthier about 30 years ago. :)


No disrespect intended, but either you are remembering incorrectly, or the CML misspoke.


It is possible that having the *bridge* higher would change the angle of pull on the neck and have a greater effect with the same tension. But the height of the TP has *nothing* to do with overall string tension, or the angle of force being exerted on the neck.

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Got Lefties?

The saga continues...

I bought a '13 LPJ Cherry Satin from Amazon in June '14. "Ships from and Sold by" Amazon. It was one of two left.

Within three days, there were seven available. As of last check, the Sam Ash Store on Amazon is now the seller.

...it gets more strange - all of a sudden zZ has an abundance of Lefty '13 Wine Red Sig Ts...for a great price.

There are too many possibilities to suggest, so I'll pick one:

For some reason, some '13 Lefty models may have fallen into the FILO method of Accounting and Inventory control.

Who knows? I find it interesting.


At various points of the year, reporting inventory can be and is reporting assets. At other points of the year, reporting inventory can be and is reporting liabilities. Clearly we are in that quarter in which left handed inventory is being reported as a liability, time to get it gone.



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Almost pulled the trigger last week buying from Thomann but hesitated (guilt thing) as Christmas is so near. Due to stalling on this purchase some lucky so and so beat me to it. Anyway feeling down in the dumps, I started searching around again, and low and behold I find loads of lefty Gibson Les Pauls and SGs available in the UK. So I've been doing all the overtime going and had a word with my manager to trade my holiday for the money. So all going well I'll have a Gibson this side of Christmas without the guilt. Happy days [wink] :) :)

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TP height does NOT change tension. If it did, you wouldn't be in tune any more.


Hm, I decided to adjust the tailpiece on my LPJ. I raised it and then went to play my guitar, and it was crazy out of. Was in tune the last time I had played it. Kinda weird. I don't know if raising the tailpiece had anything to do with it.

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Raising or lowering TP will cause the guitar to go out of tune. Tune 'er back up.


Intonation should be re-checked.


Never raise TP too much!!!


Neck relief should be re-checked as well.


As with any adjustments, take it slow, be careful and 'know' what you are doing! [omg][tongue][smile]

Lol, I have found that one out the hard way. I've never actually set a guitar up as far as action and whatnot is concerned, so I'm definitely an amateur in that respect. I raised the TP because the strings were touching the bridge going toward the TP. I've never adjusted the neck relief or anything like that, so pointers would definitely be appreciated. How would I know if I raised the TP too much?

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OK then Mr. Amateur,


1. Have TP no higher than 3/8"

2. Get a professional set-up.


A lot of people agree that both E strings should (barely) not touch edge of bridge (the other four strings will 'take care of themselves').

--- so you're OK with that philosophy!


So, once action is set, the TP should wind up almost parallel to the bridge, as per the two E's barely 'no touch' thing.


Break angle off saddles/bridge should also be close to that of the nut/tuners.


Neck Relief is tricky and very important. Go to Step 2 above.


Over time, you'll become more educated and experienced. [-X :blink: :mellow: [wink][smile]

Oh, okay. I gotcha. Well, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely have to get my guitar set up. I'll have that done ASAP. I'll be an expert someday. But until then, I'll just keep learning from the experts on this forum.

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Yes, sir - learn before you 'do'. :huh: [woot]




Words are interesting. I never did like the word 'advice' (unless necessary to use it).


Suggest, opinionize, inform, share; there are many ways to express oneself in writing.




There are those 'fine lines' that some of us Gibson Board Members may not wish 'to cross' (i.e. a 'forbidden topic').


Later on, CJ. You'll be all set in no time. [thumbup]

Indeed they are, good sir. I appreciate the suggestions. I'll definitely have to remember that.

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What is this, the stock market?


A recent influx of '13 SigTs and '13 LPJs has been observed...looks like a bunch of '14s still around (mostly Studios and SPros).


For the near (?) future it seems that the title of my OT Post should be suspended, for now... 'cos soon enough; they gone. :unsure:

Where have you seen these '13 models? I keep an eye on Sweetwater's website to see what they have. No LPJs anywhere, just a couple of the '14 studio pros, and still plenty of the '14 studios. The MinEtune guitars are still well stocked. One would have to wonder why Gibson chose to make Gforce standard for 2015.

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