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Epi Les Paul - cracked neck heel joint

#1 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

I pulled the neck pu and discovered this large crack directly under the fingerboard where the neck joint is. I checked with the retailer where I bought it and his tech guy said all Epi LPs are manufactured this way. Is this normal? Thanks!Attached File  20180114_113440.jpg (77.95K)
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#2 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 12:41 PM

I wonder how far the crack goes under the fingerboard. I have disassembled quite a few Epi's and Gibsons and I have never seen anything like that. [crying]

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 22 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

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#3 User is offline   Jeffytune 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 01:26 PM

That is definitely a manufacturing issue and i would be calling Epiphone directly.

You can also reach us by phone

In the USA:
1-800-4GIBSON (1-800-444-2766)

In Europe:
00+800-4GIBSON1 (00+800-444-2766-1)
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#4 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Return it if you can. No matter what the outcome, don't go to that store anymore.

rct
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#5 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:35 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 22 January 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I wonder how far the crack goes under the fingerboard. I have disassembled quite a few Epi's and Gibsons and I have never seen anything like that. [crying]


I measured it with a feeler gauge and it goes back 3.25 inches. I sent the photo to the retailer and their tech got back to me. Said it was how they're made. That it's an expansion joint.
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#6 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:35 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 22 January 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

I wonder how far the crack goes under the fingerboard. I have disassembled quite a few Epi's and Gibsons and I have never seen anything like that. [crying]


I measured it with a feeler gauge and it goes back 3.25 inches. I sent the photo to the retailer and their tech got back to me. Said it was how they're made. That it's an expansion joint.
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#7 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

I should add that it's a 2017 Epi Prophecy that I bought six months ago.
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#8 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:39 PM

View PostJeffytune, on 22 January 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

That is definitely a manufacturing issue and i would be calling Epiphone directly.

You can also reach us by phone

In the USA:
1-800-4GIBSON (1-800-444-2766)

In Europe:
00+800-4GIBSON1 (00+800-444-2766-1)


That's my next step if they don't make this right. I've purchased from them many times and their customer service has been great. Thanks!
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#9 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:37 AM

View PostChrisD70, on 22 January 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

That's my next step if they don't make this right. I've purchased from them many times and their customer service has been great. Thanks!

I would take the next step now and get the ball rolling with Gibson Support...
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#10 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:22 AM

expansion joint!! That's a good one!!

(honestly, I am no build expert, it could be, but I've never seen such a thing before.)
/Ray
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#11 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

I have been really intrigued by the photo of the crack. Its looking more like a cut mark to me now, like someone replaced the neck. Set necks are very difficult to remove and would require a very high skill set and special tools. The way Les Paul's are built there is not a lot of Body material on the right side. So if a neck was cut out, a craftsman may have cut farther inboard, using something like a small hand radial saw, leaving part of the old neck. This would ensure that the thin part of the body would not get stressed. Then the new neck heel would need to be notched out to fit. This is what it looks like to me, partly because some of the wood to the left of the crack/cut looks like it doesn't belong there, like its a wedge. If this guitar was playable at all, it would indicate that a very highly skilled person did the work and it looks to have a matching finish..

[confused]

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 23 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

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#12 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:07 PM

Your guitar is structurally compromised.

If the store won't immediately make it right with an equal exchange, do as mentioned above and get the process started asap with Gibson support. I've dealt with them one time on a return, and all went smoothly. In the end, the guitar (a five year old Gibson LP) was deemed unrepairable, and I was offered my choice of any equal value model being currently manufactured.

Best of luck in sorting this out.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '09 ES 339 / '10 ES 330L
'11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
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> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
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> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
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#13 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:17 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

I have been really intrigued by the photo of the crack. Its looking more like a cut mark to me now, like someone replaced the neck. Set necks are very difficult to remove and would require a very high skill set and special tools. The way Les Paul's are built there is not a lot of Body material on the right side. So if a neck was cut out, a craftsman may have cut farther inboard, using something like a small hand radial saw, leaving part of the old neck. This would ensure that the thin part of the body would not get stressed. Then the new neck heel would need to be notched out to fit. This is what it looks like to me, partly because some of the wood to the left of the crack/cut looks like it doesn't belong there, like its a wedge. If this guitar was playable at all, it would indicate that a very highly skilled person did the work and it looks to have a matching finish..

[confused]


Yes, 900 dollars worth of work on a 300 dollar guitar.

rct
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#14 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:34 PM

View Postrct, on 23 January 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

Yes, 900 dollars worth of work on a 300 dollar guitar.

rct


Not if the work was done in China before it even got here..

Imagine if someone who worked at the Epiphone plant took a Les Paul to put a counterfeit Gibson neck on it. Customs has been seizing counterfeit Gibsons when they find them. Someone who built a counterfeit Les Paul could have cut the neck off and replaced it with an Epiphone neck. Then somehow put it back in stock at the plant.

Look at the Les Pauls on Aliexpress, the photos do not usually show a readable shot of the headstock, but sometimes they do even with USA stamps and serial numbers. These are usually built with Epiphone parts.

Ok so this is a mystery scenario.... But the photo, I am certain, shows the neck was cut out and replaced.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 23 January 2018 - 02:46 PM

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#15 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:09 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

Not if the work was done in China before it even got here..

Imagine if someone who worked at the Epiphone plant took a Les Paul to put a counterfeit Gibson neck on it. Customs has been seizing counterfeit Gibsons when they find them. Someone who built a counterfeit Les Paul could have cut the neck off and replaced it with an Epiphone neck. Then somehow put it back in stock at the plant.

Look at the Les Pauls on Aliexpress, the photos do not usually show a readable shot of the headstock, but sometimes they do even with USA stamps and serial numbers. These are usually built with Epiphone parts.

Ok so this is a mystery scenario.... But the photo, I am certain, shows the neck was cut out and replaced.


Dude. Yer watching way too many James Bond movies. It's a friggin 300 dollar guitar, not a friggin satellite.

rct
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#16 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

View Postrct, on 23 January 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Dude. Yer watching way too many James Bond movies. It's a friggin 300 dollar guitar, not a friggin satellite.

rct


A skilled Asian craftsman could knock out several of these a day for just a few dollars. :)

Factory built Epiphone Les Paul's heel joints do not look like that, if you really look at the photo there are several things that don't look right.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 23 January 2018 - 03:49 PM

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#17 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:52 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

A skilled Asian craftsman could knock out several of these a day for just a few dollars. :)


Yes, they knock out lots of Epiphones in a day for a few dollars.

Epiphone is in the...counterfeit...Gibson business now? Someone at the Epiphone factory is...putting...what on Epiphones?

I can't understand at all where you are going with this.

rct
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#18 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:18 PM

View Postrct, on 23 January 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

Yes, they knock out lots of Epiphones in a day for a few dollars.

Epiphone is in the...counterfeit...Gibson business now? Someone at the Epiphone factory is...putting...what on Epiphones?

I can't understand at all where you are going with this.

rct



Sorry if my explanations went off the deep end. I was trying to illustrate how a Skilled craftsman in Asia could replace several necks a day.

Most of the Gibson style counterfeit guitars are made using Epiphone parts, Epiphone is not in the counterfeit business. they don't have to be, they are licensed builders. There have been a ton of youtube videos by accredited luthiers dismantling and examining Chibson's finding Epiphone labeled hardware. This doesn't mean Epiphone is supplying them but they are using Epiphone materials and could be supplied by vendors. I have been researching this topic for a long time. Checkout Aliexpress's link below..

Aliexpress LP's

Not to detract from ChrisD70's topic there is something really wrong with his Les Paul Prophecy, which I'm sure cost quite a bit more than $300. Closely examine his photo.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 24 January 2018 - 10:51 AM

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#19 User is offline   ChrisD70 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:37 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

I have been really intrigued by the photo of the crack. Its looking more like a cut mark to me now, like someone replaced the neck. Set necks are very difficult to remove and would require a very high skill set and special tools. The way Les Paul's are built there is not a lot of Body material on the right side. So if a neck was cut out, a craftsman may have cut farther inboard, using something like a small hand radial saw, leaving part of the old neck. This would ensure that the thin part of the body would not get stressed. Then the new neck heel would need to be notched out to fit. This is what it looks like to me, partly because some of the wood to the left of the crack/cut looks like it doesn't belong there, like its a wedge. If this guitar was playable at all, it would indicate that a very highly skilled person did the work and it looks to have a matching finish..

[confused]


I think you may be right about this being an intentional cut, not a crack as it looked to me. I've been in contact with the retailer and they sent me photos of 3 different Epi LPs with the same placement of the cutout.

I've sent an inquiry to Gibson as well to get confirmation, or not, and waiting to hear back. I'll update the post.

Thanks for all the input!

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#20 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:02 PM

View PostChrisD70, on 23 January 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

I think you may be right about this being an intentional cut, not a crack as it looked to me. I've been in contact with the retailer and they sent me photos of 3 different Epi LPs with the same placement of the cutout.

I've sent an inquiry to Gibson as well to get confirmation, or not, and waiting to hear back. I'll update the post.

Thanks for all the input!

The new photos look a little more uniform, but like overcut necks from a bad lot. yours was not quite so neatly done. There still shouldn't be any gap at all.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 23 January 2018 - 06:04 PM

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