ArtwerkOrange Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I have been a member for about... let me think... about 24-hours. I have finally become a Gibson owner, which I never thought I would be. I am excited, but I have a question and what better place to seek counsel? I have a finish on the guitar (Brand new CM-2015) that can best be described as a dirty chalkboard. It is a matte finish and then some. I would love to buff and/or polish to a surface with either a solid look, like the neck and headstock OR a bit of a shine. I am not talking about glass, but something less black shoe polish rub and more... what is the word... better. No, that is not fair. Some may like it, in fact I am sure somebody does. It is just not my favorite. The closest person I know to be a Gibson expert thought it could be polished, but I cannot find much of anything authoritative online. My primary concern, above all else, is that I do not make it worse, or (worse) damage the guitar in some way. I would be thrilled with any feedback, even if you just want to call me a tool or ask for my resignation as probationary member of this illustrious band of guitar heroes. Regardless, I am overjoyed to be the owner of a (not so shiny) new Gibson. Thank you one and all. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Hello and welcome.. No real stupid questions.. Just stupid answers :) And yes we have had members who have done this exact thing... Not I think on a CM but certainly on one of the faded models that have a similar finish.. Im not sure if the CM is any thinner.. But theres a vid on it here... And also there used to be a specific Les Paul section on the forum but that's been moved to the general Gibson USA part of the forum.. You may find an old thread in there if you can be bothered to look back a bit.. Ohh heres one of the old threads.. but sadly most of the pics are gone cos of Photobucket. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/123607-polishing-a-faded-gibson/ Lastly.. When someone comes on here and talks about their new guitar. WE DEMAND PICTURES :) Its an official unofficial rule You can post pics by uploading to a site like https://imgur.com/ and then copy the BB Link code it gives you directly in to your post.. Hope that helps a bit and happy playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 WOW! Thank you so much for the introduction, information and that video -- exactly what I needed. I will immediately endeavor to get on board with the forum's proper protocols and etiquette; therefore, images will be posted forthwith. One would think a professional photographer would have images posted all over the Internet, but I have been passionately obsessed with guitar for the past year and I am quadriplegic blessed with some decent functionality in the upper extremities. The guitar has proven to be therapeutic, both physically and mentally and has been a welcome distraction, though it has forced a reconsideration of my time management skills. I am concurrently transitioning from my substantial studio square footage located at the agency I owned for many years to a home studio for my photography, art, editing, design, and music work. In my case, it is akin to pouring a 2-liter bottle of diet coke (my drug of choice) into a shot glass without any spillage or overflow. I am not sure if the analogy is a good one, but any chance I have to use the word, spillage... I digress. That is my (long-winded) way of making a somewhat lame) excuse for not sharing my enthusiasm, VISUALLY! If you have not dozed off, can I ask you a stup... a question? I am intrigued by Gibson's business decisions as they struggle financially. In my previous life in corporate communications and branding, I am not so sure I could advise a client with Gibson's history of finely-crafted instruments, to risk the possibility of diminishing the brand in order to compete against themselves (Epiphone) and others in the sub-500-dollar price points, especially in an economy that is seeing luxe brands skyrocketing. My limited knowledge of Gibson's inner workings notwithstanding, current business trends are offering and opportunity for a company or companies to fill a void Gibson seems set on creating. I have noticed that many Epiphone models coming out later in this year and the next are moving past Gibson's entry-level, in some cases by quite a bit. Since I am new to this world, I have yet to develop an enthusiastic loyalty to any brand. I have always liked Gibson's guitars and when I started playing they were still very grail-esque to me. You seem quite knowledgable and are an advanced member of this forum and first to respond with a kind welcome, so I thought you might have some interesting insight. I am still thrilled with my Gibson, it just peaks my interest and curiosity when a company seemingly forfeits its primary competitive advantage. There may very well be more to this than meets the eye and I am far from an expert in the musical instrument space. It just strikes me as odd. The bottom line of my blabberfest... I just want to go play my new guitar. I will work on brevity, going forward... I promise. THANK YOU, AGAIN (and again). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 ......I am intrigued by Gibson's business decisions as they struggle financially. In my previous life in corporate communications and branding, I am not so sure I could advise a client with Gibson's history of finely-crafted instruments, to risk the possibility of diminishing the brand in order to compete against themselves (Epiphone) and others in the sub-500-dollar price points, especially in an economy that is seeing luxe brands skyrocketing. My limited knowledge of Gibson's inner workings notwithstanding, current business trends are offering and opportunity for a company or companies to fill a void Gibson seems set on creating. I have noticed that many Epiphone models coming out later in this year and the next are moving past Gibson's entry-level, in some cases by quite a bit....... Hello and welcome Very, very good point you are making here. Best wishes jdgm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If you have not dozed off, can I ask you a stup... a question? I am intrigued by Gibson's business decisions as they struggle financially. In my previous life in corporate communications and branding, I am not so sure I could advise a client with Gibson's history of finely-crafted instruments, to risk the possibility of diminishing the brand in order to compete against themselves (Epiphone) and others in the sub-500-dollar price points, especially in an economy that is seeing luxe brands skyrocketing. My limited knowledge of Gibson's inner workings notwithstanding, current business trends are offering and opportunity for a company or companies to fill a void Gibson seems set on creating. I have noticed that many Epiphone models coming out later in this year and the next are moving past Gibson's entry-level, in some cases by quite a bit. Since I am new to this world, I have yet to develop an enthusiastic loyalty to any brand. I have always liked Gibson's guitars and when I started playing they were still very grail-esque to me. You seem quite knowledgable and are an advanced member of this forum and first to respond with a kind welcome, so I thought you might have some interesting insight. I am still thrilled with my Gibson, it just peaks my interest and curiosity when a company seemingly forfeits its primary competitive advantage. There may very well be more to this than meets the eye and I am far from an expert in the musical instrument space. It just strikes me as odd. The bottom line of my blabberfest... I just want to go play my new guitar. I will work on brevity, going forward... I promise. THANK YOU, AGAIN (and again). Craig Ok first.. I am really impressed when anyone with any sort of disability has a go at guitar. Its not an easy thing to learn and the physical side of it can take it out of you a bit at first (sore finger ends and stiff hands).. So your drive to learn despite any issues is to be applauded.. Theres a video of a guy who plays with his feet and he plays amazingly. Cant help but admire that sort of determination. Next.. Gibsons current financial issues.. Ohhh this is a big long question and answer... Firstly people have to understand Henry Juszkiewicz who bought Gibson in the 80s is the owner and CEO.. He DID absolutely save the company from going under after the infamous 70s Norlin owned era. He is absolutely to be applauded for that. If it wernt for him we probably wouldn't be here talking on this forum right now. I want to get that out of the way because the next bit sounds like hate for him (which a lot of people seem to do) which it isn't.. I don't know the guy, I only know what I hear and read. So for a while things were really good in lets say the 80s to mid 90s... Then things seemed to start going sideways. There were a lot of reports of bad quality control which actually I have to say ive never seen in person, but read lots about other peoples experiences over the years. Then Gibson decided, and rightly so to start innovating.. The thing is that Gibson has such history (this is all only my opinion) that they got stuck.. When they produce guitars that are based (and still are) off a 1950s design people say, ohh, Gibson are so boring, all they do is produce the same old boring LP over and over which is true and why wouldn't they.. When they then try and innovate people cry out " That's not a REAL Gibson" and poo poo almost anything they try and do. So in the late 90s early 2000s Gibsons reputation was good but they had this tainted view of the company about their quality and making the same old thing over and over. I think it was 2008 when they came up with the Robot Les Paul which had automated tuners...Which has been a subject that has divided people for a while now. Also and im not sure when they started this but Henry decided to branch out and started buying electronics companies.. They own Phillips, Tascam and a few others. Henry's idea it seemed was for Gibson to become a lifestyle company like Apple or something (they changed name from Gibson Guitar to Gibson Brands just says it all)... THIS is one of the main reason I think they are in the position they are in now. It seems that Gibson didn't really do much with those companies some of which have already been sold off and its left them in HUGE debt. I believe the figure is something like $520 million. This debt is due this year and Gibson were downgraded in their credit rating recently which may mean they may not be able get the finance when the bill is due (June and August I think). Since 2008 they have tried to release several different auto tuning guitars with the god awful Firebird X being the most famously hated guitar probably ever.. In 2015 Gibson then did something very odd.. They totally changed the WHOLE Gibson USA line up that year. EVERY guitar that year came with a massive wide neck (and a Gibson neck is one of the things that make a Gibson a Gibson), auto tuners, a brass zero fret nut (which was faulty and was replaced with a titanium one soon after), a horrible Les Paul hologram on the back of the neck, and on the front where Les Pauls signature is, they got Les Paul to do his own signature which they used on the guitars instead. The issue being that it wasn't long before he died so it looks like the writing of a six year old. The guitars of that year did not go down well to say the least (you can still find some 2015s around). They really tried to shove it down our throats that year and it didn't work.. Ohh and also just to add to that they had a %30 price increase that year too. Since that year from 2016, Gibson realising their mistake.. They now make two lines of each model an HP (high performance) version which has a nice sculpted neck heal, auto tuners, posher flamed tops, nice hard cases and some other stuff. And a T (traditional) version which are the guitars that most of us know and love without the bells and whistles. They also do this weird yearly model release thing which I don't think is right for the guitar industry. They release the new models in like October. So now everyone knows, all we have to do is wait till the new models are released and all the ones from last year (which is still the current year) will now be blown out in the sales. Its a silly model. This has led to Gibson now having a much more wobbly relationship with both the public because of all these weird decisions and the retailers who have to do stuff like take a certain amount of stock (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars) in order just to qualify to sell one. This has led to only a few of the biggest shops being able to sell a Gibson at all. And the general issues that retail has all over the world which has obviously played a part in all of this. Henry has stated hes not giving up and has everything in place to finance the company going forward.. BUT the issue most people have with him is he just seems like a suit who cares for nothing but money. Its a private company so anything can happen and we will just have to wait to see. So there you go... As I say its a long complex issue and really to understand it you need to know how they got here. And ive probably missed a few things but I think that's a good overview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 That was most certainly NOT a good overview, sir... it was actually a quite thorough one (for me personally) and filled many gaps in my cursory knowledge of the recent history of Gibson. I mean this in a mostly facetious and overly dramatic way, but when my first Gibson arrived and I started acquiring as much information as I could -- when I get passionate about something, it is full tilt boogie, guns-a-blazin' cajones to the wall -- I started to get the sinking feeling like maybe I just booked steerage on the R.M.S. Titanic. Knock, knock? Who's there? Buyer's Remorse (I always kind of sucked at knock knock jokes)? I actually and still thrilled to own a new Gibson and this corporate craziness is probably how I was able to afford one to begin with. Upon soaking up a bit of your knowledge to combine with mine, I am more certain than before that Gibson can come out of this alive, kicking and better than ever... the question is, will they? Or did they open the door and kick PRS up notch. Notice I did not say Fender> Whilst their fiscal house may not be in the disarray of Gibson, they seem to be making many of the same questionable business decisions. Again, this is simply what I have gleaned in a short time span and pretty much on the surface only. I could be way off. I want to thank you for your insight and your kind words and, again, warm welcome to the Gibson community. As far as the amazing feat of the guitarist with the amazing feet... talk about inspiration! Boy, do I feel like an underachiever. I have greatly enjoyed our introductory conversation. It has been worth every penny. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Glad I can help :) And no, no sinking ship in those terms.. When you find a good Gibson, there is absolutely nothing else quite like it.. Ive seen it on here time and time again. People who have played Fenders or whatever for years, find their first Gibson and wonder why the hell they never did that earlier ... I have four and I love my Gibsons.. I love the music that Gibson have helped create over the years... And don't forget that regardless of what some may have you believe, throughout all of whats happened. There have ALWAYS been good and bad Gibsons out there.. And even good and bad doesn't quite cover it because what is good for one player may not be good for another. Guitars by their nature are all slightly different because EVERY piece of wood is different and they still get a lot of hand finishing. So the necks and setups are all just slightly different on every guitar. Those tiny differences it seems make huge differences to the player. The idea is that you have to go find your guitar.. Some people find it quick, some can take years if they are searching for something specific... Like everything in life it takes some work, but when you do find one, boy ohh boy is it worth it... Ohh and since we are at it.. Heres that vid :) And finally.. Yes, even everything I have said is only what I read about online and we talk about on here and what conclusions that may lead me to. With regards to the actual details of whats going on at Gibson, only they know.. (and is quite frankly none of our business).. It is hard to imagine the guitar side of Gibson totally disappearing. I cant see that happening. BUT if it goes down that route its fairly likely to be bought out by some big Chinese company or something along those lines.. I really hope that doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Ohh and one thing I didn't cover but can very quickly.. Why do Gibson and Epiphone cross over their price range... Im not even sure god would know the answer to that :) It seems counter intuitive.. It has given me one idea though.. Who ever is currently running Epiphone.. Let them run Gibson.. Theres your answer right there ;) And actually a better answer.. A lot of people (including myself) really don't like the Epi headstock shape and want it to say Gibson not Epiphone, and while that is absolutely silly as they make good guitars.. Part of playing I think is how you feel about it all.. If having Gibson on your headstock inspires you.. Then its all good.. :) And Gibson know and probably rely on that (probably a bit too much).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Glad I can help :) And no, no sinking ship in those terms.. When you find a good Gibson, there is absolutely nothing else quite like it.. Ive seen it on here time and time again. People who have played Fenders or whatever for years, find their first Gibson and wonder why the hell they never did that earlier ... I have four and I love my Gibsons.. I love the music that Gibson have helped create over the years... And don't forget that regardless of what some may have you believe, throughout all of whats happened. There have ALWAYS been good and bad Gibsons out there.. And even good and bad doesn't quite cover it because what is good for one player may not be good for another. Guitars by their nature are all slightly different because EVERY piece of wood is different and they still get a lot of hand finishing. So the necks and setups are all just slightly different on every guitar. Those tiny differences it seems make huge differences to the player. The idea is that you have to go find your guitar.. Some people find it quick, some can take years if they are searching for something specific... Like everything in life it takes some work, but when you do find one, boy ohh boy is it worth it... Ohh and since we are at it.. Heres that vid :) And finally.. Yes, even everything I have said is only what I read about online and we talk about on here and what conclusions that may lead me to. With regards to the actual details of whats going on at Gibson, only they know.. (and is quite frankly none of our business).. It is hard to imagine the guitar side of Gibson totally disappearing. I cant see that happening. BUT if it goes down that route its fairly likely to be bought out by some big Chinese company or something along those lines.. I really hope that doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 I, too, feel quite certain that Gibson will live on and most likely remain a USA brand. Crises have a way of separating the wheat from the chaff. Plus, I have only been on the Gibson Forum for two days. I just got into the club... I can't lose my membership, at least not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Maybe Gibson's supreme leaders will read our thread and "do the right thing" or at least the smart one. Let the model be the prestige if that is important. We all know they are the same company. I bet that would get a nice bump in sales with a simple alteration in structure (ex. Gibson, Gibson USA, Gibson Pro, Gibson Custom/Signature -- 4 price points), but what do I know? BTW, the guy with the guitar feet also drives a car. I wonder what else he can do that I can't? Amazing stuff. I am inspired to up my game as a player, but also continue saving for the Gibson I REALLY want. For now, my Epi and Gibson share a wall hanger and are becoming fast friends. Pictures, hopefully, tomorrow. At least a couple iPhone shots. Pro shots will be closely behind. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Welcome to the forum Craig and glad to have you here. Good name! I used to have a good friend at the railroad named Craig. We worked and carpooled together. congrats on your Gibson too, As Rabs said, "I'm one that took Decades to find my first Gibson and its a keeper. At least till the day I die and I told the wife to see if there was a way to put it in my coffin with me and a small amp. Ha Ha! Do they have electric outlets in Heaven. My cousin who taught me to play owned a beautiful Gibson and from 13 years old till I retired from the Railroad I always wanted one and bought my first Gold Top Standard at 60. Guess it takes some of us longer then others Huh? Yeah, I have an Epiphone too and its a Pelhame Blue Custom collectors issue. Love the Burst Buckers in that one. I too think Gibson will be around for a long time and certainly hope so. By the way...You've been talking to our good Rabs as in Rabs Wood Guitars. He makes his own guitars and sells them and does a mighty Good Job at that. I just wish he didn't live on the other side of the pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Hello and welcome.. No real stupid questions.. Just stupid answers :) And yes we have had members who have done this exact thing... Not I think on a CM but certainly on one of the faded models that have a similar finish.. Im not sure if the CM is any thinner.. But theres a vid on it here... And also there used to be a specific Les Paul section on the forum but that's been moved to the general Gibson USA part of the forum.. You may find an old thread in there if you can be bothered to look back a bit.. Ohh heres one of the old threads.. but sadly most of the pics are gone cos of Photobucket. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/123607-polishing-a-faded-gibson/ Lastly.. When someone comes on here and talks about their new guitar. WE DEMAND PICTURES :) Its an official unofficial rule You can post pics by uploading to a site like https://imgur.com/ and then copy the BB Link code it gives you directly in to your post.. Hope that helps a bit and happy playing I am not sure to keep message inside reply, so I erred on the side of caution as I wanted to let you that video you was just what I needed. I already found supplies and hope to get started tomorrow, Monday at the latest. I will post before/after pics. -- Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Welcome to the forum Craig and glad to have you here. Good name! I used to have a good friend at the railroad named Craig. We worked and carpooled together. congrats on your Gibson too, As Rabs said, "I'm one that took Decades to find my first Gibson and its a keeper. At least till the day I die and I told the wife to see if there was a way to put it in my coffin with me and a small amp. Ha Ha! Do they have electric outlets in Heaven. My cousin who taught me to play owned a beautiful Gibson and from 13 years old till I retired from the Railroad I always wanted one and bought my first Gold Top Standard at 60. Guess it takes some of us longer then others Huh? Yeah, I have an Epiphone too and its a Pelhame Blue Custom collectors issue. Love the Burst Buckers in that one. I too think Gibson will be around for a long time and certainly hope so. By the way...You've been talking to our good Rabs as in Rabs Wood Guitars. He makes his own guitars and sells them and does a mighty Good Job at that. I just wish he didn't live on the other side of the pond. That coffin idea is a good one, but let's hope neither of us needs one for a long time. I just checked out Rab's Guitars -- I am impressed. Those are beauties! Thanks for letting me know. Thanks! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I am not sure to keep message inside reply, so I erred on the side of caution as I wanted to let you that video you was just what I needed. I already found supplies and hope to get started tomorrow, Monday at the latest. I will post before/after pics. -- Craig Excellent.. That's what we like to hear So many times we never hear any feedback from people who want to just ask one question and go.. I mean that's ok. Not everyone wants to stay around but its nice to hear.. So thanks and I look forward to the pictures :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 Excellent.. That's what we like to hear So many times we never hear any feedback from people who want to just ask one question and go.. I mean that's ok. Not everyone wants to stay around but its nice to hear.. So thanks and I look forward to the pictures :) I am deep into it, so those before and afters may be a while, but they are coming. Thanks again. Your replies really fueled my desire to keep on Gibson..ing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I am deep into it, so those before and afters may be a while, but they are coming. Thanks again. Your replies really fueled my desire to keep on Gibson..ing? Cool and thanks for the update I look forward to seeing the change. And yes, Gisboning as you will discover (if not already) is addictive... :) But there are worse things to be addicted to so its ok you are in good company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtwerkOrange Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 Cool and thanks for the update I look forward to seeing the change. And yes, Gisboning as you will discover (if not already) is addictive... :) But there are worse things to be addicted to so its ok you are in good company... I hear those RabsWood Guitars are fairly amazing, as well. I would love to make one of those my next acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I hear those RabsWood Guitars are fairly amazing, as well. I would love to make one of those my next acquisition. Well that's for other people to say or not... I cant be bigging myself up :) But yes I can make a pretty mean guitar as it goes :D Heres one played by our own JDGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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