Gibson Guitar Board: Grounding issues with this Les Paul? - Gibson Guitar Board

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

Grounding issues with this Les Paul?

#1 User is offline   whiteop 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: 24-March 08

Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:37 AM

I have a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro with the push / pull pots. It's basically brand new. Here's what's happening and hope some of you can share your expertise:

Basic Complaint:
Electrostatic buzz; not quite a hum sound, more like a noise that just shouldn't be there; it occurs briefly then disappears; just not a totally clean sound. It occurs when I press down on the strings so it may have to do with capacitance. When I don't press down it's not as evident.

Testing:
I pulled out an Epiphone Les Paul and a Gibson ES-335 to test to see if it was the guitar, amp, or effects pedals. Absolutely no hum, buzz, or noise from the Epi or ES-335 with effects in the chain or without. By comparison, I plugged my Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro straight into the amp and still heard the same thing as before. It was more prevalent with the effects engaged.

So my other guitars, amp, and effects were fine which means it has something to do with the new Gibson Les Paul TP.

I did some other tests as well; basically I touched different parts of the guitar to see what effect it had on the buzz / hum:

When I touched the output jack plate and the toggle switch ring, the buzz / hum subsides.
When I touched the strings, bridge, or tailstop absolutely no difference; the buzz / hum was there.

Which brings up the possiblity that my bridge is not properly grounded and that fixing that problem could be the solution.


Questions:
Has anybody else here had the same problem?

If so what did you do to fix it?

Where and what color is the wire that goes to the bridge in your guitar?

Where do you run the wire to and from? do I have remove some posts?, etc...


Any help is appreciated.

WhiteOp

Guitars - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Gibson ES-335 (1981), Fender Strat (1971), Fender Strat 60's Classic Player with Dimarzio Area series pickups, Fender Tele Affinity with Dimarzio Area pickups, Ibanez 320DX with OFR trem and Breed pickups, Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II. Amps - Mesa Stiletto Ace, Rivera Slavemaster, DT50, Fender Super Champ XD. MFX units - HD500, RP1000, and GT-10. Favorite stompboxes - Dual Lotus II, FoxRox Zim, Plimsoul, BOR, Keeley modded BD-2, modded Rat 2, and too many others to mention...

#2 User is offline   swleary 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2564
  • Joined: 13-November 09

Posted 18 February 2011 - 12:04 PM

I've never personally had the problem however I've heard some people on here with similar problems. Onething they always check is the soldering and that's sometimes the cause. Another is the switch it self, 50's trubutes had a very similiar problem which many just changed the switch. That is where I'd look.

My 2009 Traditional gets a slight hum when in the bridge position on my Vox Vt30 however when I roll back the volume knob,it quickly goes away away.

What amp are you using?
copyright of swleary INC. ... prohibited by law of any use without written consent lmao

Quote

In a sock a basic compressor pedal is also quite heavy and can be used as a deadly weapon


I'd rather regret doing something than not doing something- James Hetfield

#3 User is offline   whiteop 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: 24-March 08

Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:33 PM

Note: Figured out exactly what it was - shoddy workmanship but I'm still taking it back as I discovered a few other things I didn't like while checking.

Pure and simple - there was absolutely no ground wire running to the bridge post at all though if you unscrewed the post you could clearly see a "wire" laying down in there. Upon further inspection I figured out that it was simply a "faux" wire to make it look like there was a wire down in there. It wasn't connected to anything and I took the guitar upside and shook it out. It was just a small circle of wire that connected to nothing. Looking into the cavity I saw where a hole had clearly been drilled that was supposed to lead up into the bridge post cavity but after using a small wire and trying to fish it through with no success then used a light and couldn't tell much more then took some canned air and shot it both directions; through the guidepost hole and the other way around. No air..nothing. Then I looked at where the hole was drilled and the angle. It was too far down in the cavity for it to connect. I think someone on the assembly line screwed up or was lazy and didn't do the job like they were supposed to. This makes me have serious considerations concerning Gibson Q.C. I'm taking it back today and if I happen to see another brand that speaks to me I'm ditching the Gibson.

There's no excuse for this crap. Please build them in the U.S.A. Don't just say you are because it's pretty obvious someone isn't understanding instructions...
Guitars - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Gibson ES-335 (1981), Fender Strat (1971), Fender Strat 60's Classic Player with Dimarzio Area series pickups, Fender Tele Affinity with Dimarzio Area pickups, Ibanez 320DX with OFR trem and Breed pickups, Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II. Amps - Mesa Stiletto Ace, Rivera Slavemaster, DT50, Fender Super Champ XD. MFX units - HD500, RP1000, and GT-10. Favorite stompboxes - Dual Lotus II, FoxRox Zim, Plimsoul, BOR, Keeley modded BD-2, modded Rat 2, and too many others to mention...

#4 User is offline   whiteop 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: 24-March 08

Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:35 PM

I've tried it out on a Rivera Slavemaster, a Mesa Stiletto Ace, and a DT50. None of my other guitars with humbuckers have the problem. Anyway I figured out what it was.
Guitars - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Gibson ES-335 (1981), Fender Strat (1971), Fender Strat 60's Classic Player with Dimarzio Area series pickups, Fender Tele Affinity with Dimarzio Area pickups, Ibanez 320DX with OFR trem and Breed pickups, Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II. Amps - Mesa Stiletto Ace, Rivera Slavemaster, DT50, Fender Super Champ XD. MFX units - HD500, RP1000, and GT-10. Favorite stompboxes - Dual Lotus II, FoxRox Zim, Plimsoul, BOR, Keeley modded BD-2, modded Rat 2, and too many others to mention...

#5 User is offline   swleary 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2564
  • Joined: 13-November 09

Posted 18 February 2011 - 03:30 PM

what was it?
copyright of swleary INC. ... prohibited by law of any use without written consent lmao

Quote

In a sock a basic compressor pedal is also quite heavy and can be used as a deadly weapon


I'd rather regret doing something than not doing something- James Hetfield

#6 User is offline   whiteop 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: 24-March 08

Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:29 PM

 charlie brown, on 17 February 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

Actually, I use 2 of them. At different settings, for different guitars and/or applications.
I have found, that by cranking back, on the tone knob, it smooths it out, a LOT! No "harshness,"
that way. Then, I just set the "level" and "gain" knobs, where I want them...and Away We Go!!
Also, by using that tone knob, you can adjust to the particular Amp, or guitar you're using.
For instance, Fender amps, (regardless of guitar used) require a different setting, than my
Marshall does. I find out, what works, keep a note about it, for future reference, if need be,
until you get more familiar with it.


CB

No ground wire to the bridge post which it's supposed to have. Took it back today and got a new one and NO hum / buzz at all. Confirmed it had a ground wire to the bridge post this time. In other words bad QC at Gibson was the cause. The tech at the GC said he had seen 3 of the Traditional Pros come back recently that had the same problem. So if you go to buy one have the guitar tested with multimeter set on the continuity test mode and see if you get a continuity between the output jack plate and the bridge posts. If not the ground wire that goes to the bridge post wasn't installed properly. On my old one it didn't even have a ground wire even though a hole had been drilled for one. My new one has it and it's installed properly. QC totally missed mine and 3 others so I'd venture to guess there are a lot more out there where a lazy tech didn't do his job. With this current job economy I wouldn' t be sloughing off on the job.
Guitars - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Gibson ES-335 (1981), Fender Strat (1971), Fender Strat 60's Classic Player with Dimarzio Area series pickups, Fender Tele Affinity with Dimarzio Area pickups, Ibanez 320DX with OFR trem and Breed pickups, Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II. Amps - Mesa Stiletto Ace, Rivera Slavemaster, DT50, Fender Super Champ XD. MFX units - HD500, RP1000, and GT-10. Favorite stompboxes - Dual Lotus II, FoxRox Zim, Plimsoul, BOR, Keeley modded BD-2, modded Rat 2, and too many others to mention...

#7 User is offline   dhstaab 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 28-September 09

Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:05 PM

Thanks for the information. This was very helpful. I have a Gibson LP Traditional Pro that has the same hum when I'm not touching some metal on the guitar. However mine is more than a year old. Playing a low bedroom volumes it was not too bad, but now that I'm playing at louder volumes it is so annoying I just switch to another guitar. It's going to my tech tomorrow and I'll suggest that he start with the ground wire to the bridge post.

This is definitely not the type of hum that you get on single pup guitars like a Fender Strat. One of the reasons I got the LP was for the quiet humbuckers.

I currently have 20+ guitars including a Gibson ES359, Fender Strat, PRS Custom, Rickenbacker 360, Musicman Albert Lee and a lot of Reverends. This is the only one that does this. Quality of the Reverends, PRS and Albert Lee is great. The two Gibsons are at the bottom of the list when it comes to quality problems.

#8 User is offline   Andy R 

  • King of the Night Time World
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2506
  • Joined: 26-November 10
  • LocationOn my butt in front of a computer....Duh!

Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:18 PM

 dhstaab, on 04 March 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

Thanks for the information. This was very helpful. I have a Gibson LP Traditional Pro that has the same hum when I'm not touching some metal on the guitar. However mine is more than a year old. Playing a low bedroom volumes it was not too bad, but now that I'm playing at louder volumes it is so annoying I just switch to another guitar. It's going to my tech tomorrow and I'll suggest that he start with the ground wire to the bridge post.

This is definitely not the type of hum that you get on single pup guitars like a Fender Strat. One of the reasons I got the LP was for the quiet humbuckers.

I currently have 20+ guitars including a Gibson ES359, Fender Strat, PRS Custom, Rickenbacker 360, Musicman Albert Lee and a lot of Reverends. This is the only one that does this. Quality of the Reverends, PRS and Albert Lee is great. The two Gibsons are at the bottom of the list when it comes to quality problems.


Actually if the hum quits when you touch your strings, bridge, tailpiece, tuners then your bridge ground is working fine. If non of that happens and you have a cable with a metal jacket and you toch it and the hum goes away then the ground wire is bad. When you touch the strings or the bridge etc... you become the ground. That's why passive pickup electric guitars can actually be dangerous in certain situations and why you should never play with an amp that doesn't have the third ground prong. If there is voltage coming back through ground ( which happens a lot in bars with shoddy electrical systems you can become a voltage circuit right through your heart.... I have literally had arcs of electricity jumping between my lips and microphones before....


Active pickups like EMG's don't require a bridge ground wire and are safer in that regard...
I think...Therefore My Brain Hurts...

#9 User is offline   dhstaab 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 28-September 09

Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:57 PM

Thanks for the additional information. I'll see what my tech finds. He is very good, and I believe he is the local certified Gibson repair tech. Maybe I'll luck out and it will be covered under the warranty.

If it can't be repaired or costs too much I'll dump it. After the problems I had with my ES359 I won't be adding any more Gibsons to my collection. It's a shame because I waited a long time to finally be able to afford a Les Paul. Now that I've tried other brands I've realized there are a lot of guitar companies making better guitars at far more reasonable prices.

BTW I added a Monster 3500 to drive my amps and effects. All indications are I have no power problems. And as I said only the LP out of 20+ guitars has the problem. I happens even when I plug directly into the amp, bypassing all of my pedals.

#10 User is offline   BigKahune 

  • Just plain Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 10861
  • Joined: 01-January 09
  • LocationEarth

Posted 05 March 2011 - 01:03 AM

.
Interesting thread.

And disturbing news.
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12-string
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360 12-string
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string
08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone...................o07 Guild F412 12-sting..............oo07 Taylor NS74ce
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o98 Martin D-45VR.....................oo97 Guild X-700 Stuart
73 Yamaha G-55A......................................65 Gibson Melody Maker..............Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab)
Keyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220............................................................................o Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider

#11 User is offline   awel 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 838
  • Joined: 05-November 10
  • LocationBelgium, Europa

Posted 05 March 2011 - 01:59 AM

I was thinking about it, I mean the Q.C. of Gibson...

Let 's be honest the Gibson sound is unique but on the other hand the Quality seems ... hum less than what it should regarding the price we pay.

I have 3 Gibson, an SG 61, an SG std and a Les Paul Custom, the 3 were bought new.
2 have finishing default!!!

- the binding on my 61 SG around the 12th fret it is like a roller coster, you feel it (and even see it) when you pass your finger on.

- the Les Paul Custom have a different color tone at the neck junction.

On the other hand, I have also a Fender strat vintage hotrod 62 (new) that I should have bring to luthery and she has to work on fret plannification ... on a Fender USA new guitar!!! [cursing]

So I think that Gibson and Fender brands cruise on the heritage from the past, but I think we sould expect more quality compared with the price they sell it.

for comparison, I have an Ibanez S5470 Prestige Made In Japan, and you can check everything no default, nothing, perfect.
Electrics
2011 Les Paul Custom 'Black Beauty'
2014 Fender Telecaster Richie Kotzen Signature
2010 Fender Stratocater Vintage Hotrod 62
2014 Telecaster American Special
1991 Robin USA Custom with EMG81 and 2 EMG SA
2013 EVH Stripped White/Black

Accoustic
Yamaha APX-500

Amps
Marshall JVM-410 Head
Palmer 2X12 Celestion Vintage 30 Box


Effects
1994 VOX Wha V-847
Xotic BB Preamp
Fulltone OCD
MXR Carbon Copy Delay

#12 User is offline   jnastynebr 

  • SUSPENDED
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1057
  • Joined: 04-February 09
  • LocationConnecticut, USA

Posted 05 March 2011 - 07:50 AM

 whiteop, on 18 February 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

Note: Figured out exactly what it was - shoddy workmanship but I'm still taking it back as I discovered a few other things I didn't like while checking.

Pure and simple - there was absolutely no ground wire running to the bridge post at all though if you unscrewed the post you could clearly see a "wire" laying down in there. Upon further inspection I figured out that it was simply a "faux" wire to make it look like there was a wire down in there. It wasn't connected to anything and I took the guitar upside and shook it out. It was just a small circle of wire that connected to nothing. Looking into the cavity I saw where a hole had clearly been drilled that was supposed to lead up into the bridge post cavity but after using a small wire and trying to fish it through with no success then used a light and couldn't tell much more then took some canned air and shot it both directions; through the guidepost hole and the other way around. No air..nothing. Then I looked at where the hole was drilled and the angle. It was too far down in the cavity for it to connect. I think someone on the assembly line screwed up or was lazy and didn't do the job like they were supposed to. This makes me have serious considerations concerning Gibson Q.C. I'm taking it back today and if I happen to see another brand that speaks to me I'm ditching the Gibson.

There's no excuse for this crap. Please build them in the U.S.A. Don't just say you are because it's pretty obvious someone isn't understanding instructions...

This seems to be a common problem for Gibson. My 2000 Smartwood LP (bought used) had the exact same problem. My 2007 had a ground problem, too. I re did all the solder/wire joints and shielded the cavities, and that seems to have fixed the issue. This is a ridiculous problem for a $2K guitar. Its hard to defend Gibson's QC practices when you see this time and time again.
-Kill the poor- DK

#13 User is offline   dhstaab 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 28-September 09

Posted 05 March 2011 - 01:10 PM

Buzzing problem solved! When my guitar tech open the back it took him less than 30 seconds to find the problem. The soldering in my Les Paul is so bad that wires were working loose. He showed me places where gobs of solder appeared to have just been dropped in place, and the wires were barely covered. It took him less than five minutes of work to redo the solder connections. Guitar is now dead quiet and sound is perfect.

The quality of the soldering connections in this guitar was what you might expect from a 10 year old with his first soldering iron. It's obvious no Gibson QC person ever came near this guitar. Got this from Guitar Center. Same place I got my ES359 that had so many problems.

I guess the message is to stay away from the mass produced Gibsons that are going to the big box distributers. If the tech was able to fix the problem in a few minutes, why couldn't Gibson have spent a couple of minutes to get it right in the first place? How much $ did they save shortcutting a few minutes of work on a $2000 guitar? In my opinion this is not cost cutting, this is poor management.

If you think you have this problem, you need to get it checked. These connections were close to shorting out and I suppose might have caused other problems.

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users