CJB
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Posts posted by CJB
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@tpbiii thanks so much, Tom! Your recordings are very very helpful. Much appreciated.
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I figured I'd open this can of worms. I keep circling back to ladder braced guitars. The few I've played really stick out in my memory in a positive way. Those of you who like ladder braced guitars, have you compared a Waterloo WL-14L and an LG1? What have you liked about each, pros/cons of one over the other in general (knowing individual instruments have personalities all their own)?
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1 hour ago, BluesKing777 said:
Edit..Imgur back up! Here is my 59 LG3..wouldn't you prefer to own something like this? Great guitar! (I'll blame the camera - it doesn't show the checking and wear marks)
oh man, that is sexy. Yes, I would like to have something like that for sure! I just don't think that I can justify the dinero. Besides, I like dirty tone isn't that the basis of the LG1?
50 minutes ago, Dave F said:Plus some of those early post war LG1’s had a 9.75” radius fretboard as did the one I had.
I didn't realize that - thanks for mentioning that.
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Stirring it up again I see! 😉 Man, those do sound good though and no doubt have a solid following for a reason. I have to say that I like the tone of my LG2 better. With that I think I've got modern wood covered so I'd really like to try some old wood so I'm heading toward an older LG1. I have been talking with several folks out there and have found some semi-local inventory that I hope to try out when time and pandemic allows.
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@BluesKing777 I'm thinking my budget is more 'mid 50's ugly functional'. I'm ok with wear and tear that doesn't impede playability and tone, Previous repairs, neck sets, character marks and eventful history as long as it sounds great and plays well (but won't be a near future project) are all ok by me. My styling preferences are more 40's/early 50's. How's that for an answer? 😄 .
I'll have to get a copy of that book, thanks!
Random question that has come to mind as I hunt... is a shiny (oversprayed?) bridge a common thing on these? I noticed that on one at Retrofret.
And regarding the F25, one just came up on reverb yesterday that looks nice.
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Bummer!
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Looks like the pick guard is pretty loosely attached? Looks to be a fantastic deal to me. (and I might be interested if you don't go for it! 😄 )
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31 minutes ago, rustystrings said:
Heretical observation - as you price old LG-1s (which have their own arch top-like vibe, and which usually get labeled blues and slide instruments), LG-2s and LG-3s (which have gotten much more pricey the last couple of decades) and B-25s (also getting pricier than they once were), maybe you'll find yourself in my camp. I lean towards newer instruments based on the old ones, because I just can't afford to pay the additional tariff involved in collectible artifacts.
I'd say that's more practical than heretical. But I'm not an expert on either. I do have a 2020 LG2 that I'm crazy about. That's what got me chasing this rabbit to the source so to speak. It's pretty fascinating to me so far.
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2 hours ago, zombywoof said:
If you are unwashed when it comes to old Gibsons it is best to bring somebody along who know the guitars. Sometimes the smart move is to buy from one of the big sexy vintage dealers. You will pay more but at least you know you will be getting what you think you are and in the condition described.
Also particularly LG2s built in the 1940s can be all over the place in sound. I used to own a 1946 LG2 and a friend dropped off a 1947 guitar to see if I was interested in it. Noticeably different sounding guitars. But then again they were built when a part was considered finished when it looked "close enough." The one LG2 that still haunts me though is a Banner I ran cross three years ago now at a small guitar show - a 1944 maple body version. It ended up being one of those the fates combined to keep us apart things. The owner was not set up to take plastic and with it being a Sunday just prior to the show shutting down I did not have time to run home and get a check book while the banks were closed so no way to get the cash. In the end I just had to rack it up to it being one of those things which was not meant to be.
I'm thoroughly unwashed so that's a great point to consider. I've found a few looking at some of the sexy dealers. Their prices are high but about what I'd expect and about what I'd expect for the knowledge and experience that goes behind buying from people that know their stuff. Much preferred to buying off a person on FB marketplace asking $3500 for an LG1 that has been sitting for 30 years in a Texas attic. Thank you. Bummer that one '44 maple body eluded you. Never know why sometimes but I think if we knew everything then we'd have a miserable life.
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1 minute ago, Eracer_Team said:
Remember the time you spend rebuilding it, could be time enjoying playing and making music..
I spent far too much time with a tube amp hobby
That's a good point and something that I'm weighing. I enjoy working with my hands and fiddling with stuff but I'm not so sure I want to open this door.
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Just now, zombywoof said:
To answer some of your questions 1946 is generally the last year for the 1 3/4" nut although there will always be some overlap in specs between late-1946 and early-1947 as you will find in any transition year. And the skinny butt necks show up in 1960.
Excellent, thanks! That changes the budget considerations considerably.
Thanks @Dave F! There's also a 30's L00 in Asheville I just saw. This time I'm going to try to stick with the LGish range.
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5 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:
It is probably too big an overall question, CJ....., just massive.
Thanks BK! I tried to edit after posting that as I realized it was too much, but the edit function was gone. Oh well. I agree though, way too much to talk about here. So how about necks? Do any of these have 1.75" nut widths? When do the skinny necks show up, 60's?
@Jinderthat's good info, thanks! I've wondered if those were flat and skinny like a classic guitar. Makes sense.
@j45nick I've read a bunch of Tom's posts - such a wealth of information!
Again, thanks everyone for humoring a Gibson Newb's questions.
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Hello again everyone!
In my everlasting, never ending search for the right guitar I have stumbled on a neat old LG1 in a local shop that needs to be rebuilt. I'm interested in possibly picking up the local LG1 as a project guitar. It's a 60's era (big pointy pickguard, belly up bridge, etc) and it would be a long project for me to work on but might be fun and may work out well. They also have a great little B25 that I played for a while. That one was tempting but the 1 5/8" nut was a deal breaker - it had such a good sound. But this interaction helped me to realize that my pursuit of a L-00 may have been misguided and I should be looking at the various LG body styles - LOTS of them out there too.
Over the weekend I've been doing a good bit of research on these and found some great info but one thing I can't find much on is what neck style, shape, thickness, nut width came with certain years. Can someone help steer me right with the 40's, 50's, 60's details?
How about the F25? I know that one is a 2" nut and 12 fret but is it also still short scale? Skinny or fat neck? I haven't found much on that one.
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I played one of these in a shop yesterday. What a cool guitar! I was tempted. The strings on it were regular light PB. I’d say it depends on the condition of the top and if the braces are nice a secure then regular lights in the 160lb or less range would work well. If that guitar were mine though I’d try a set of D’Addario Ej21 nickels (labeled as electric strings but have 149lbs of tension and have a wound G and are somewhat comparable to other nickel strings) on it. Those are my go to strings for anything where I want to hear the wood.
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Yep that’s a really good comparison! I haven’t visited that shop yet but they’re just a couple hours down the road from me near where I go fishing a lot. I’ll have to stop in one day.
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10 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:
Sell it to CJB, Nick, you mean old skinflint!🤠
Or to me - I’ll give it a stretch!
Importing old guitars is close to impossible where I live, but if I lived in mainland US, CJB, I would buy a ‘real’ 30s L-00 before a reissue. Actually just looked at Reverb. And there are about 20.....so probably a lot more on local lists and shops.
Today, I would buy the 34 Black L-00 from Florida for $4600 on Reverb, tweak it and away I go! I might anyway, hmmmm, looks good. But hang on, I already have my 37.......
BluesKing777.
I have a really good idea. Might be be best one I've had all day actually. You can buy that black '34, have it sent to me and I can hold on to it for you and give a thorough public assessment. I won't even threaten to sand the neck on it. Deal?
I spent some time comparing Gibson small body sizes today and I have so many more questions now. Not sure where to start so I'll go to the ol search function and see what I can dig up before starting another new discussion. we'll see... LG, B, and F content soon.🤓
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1 hour ago, j45nick said:
It is a true, fat 1930's profile with a pronounced V-shape. It has a nut width of 1.75" (about 44.5mm), and string spacing at the bridge of 2.375" (60.3mm).
The wide string spacing at the bridge is handy for clumsy fingerpickers like me.
It is surprisingly comfortable neck, given its heft.
That's what I was afraid of, thanks! Sounds just right.
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On 12/22/2020 at 8:33 AM, j45nick said:
The typical L-OO, like my Legend, is short scale. I just measured mine to confirm. I don't know if there are any long-scale variants.
I hope you guys don't mind me bringing this one back up again but I'm curious specifically about the L-00 Legend. @j45nick and other what can y'all tell me about the neck profile on these?
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@ksdaddyWow, that guitar is pristine (in a dirty way). Very cool to see.
18 hours ago, E-minor7 said:Agree - so why not take the chance and loosen/rewind. One can always turn to the old always reliable but hard perform bronze-knot-trick.
Wow, that's something special. I wish I would have thought of that years ago. 😄
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I don't know, @BluesKing777, I guess I'm still trying to figure out what I'm trying to say. What I do know is that there was an immediate connection with my LG2 like no other guitar I've owned (about 38 since 1992) and somehow I feel that adding a similarly connected L00 would be a great idea. Sounds like it's not going to be a simple journey and so it seems my best way forward is to keep playing the LG2 and 'Loo and be content while keeping an eye peeled for 'that next one'. I appreciate all the input, education, and conversation - it's a good community here. Thanks!
Chris
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2 hours ago, Hall said:
You'll know when you have to do so. No matter with what though, you have to go into therapy right now to prepare for at least some change!
What he said. Play until it loses the thump you like. Put on some used EJ-16's on it and see where that goes. Put some money away for counseling too.
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1 hour ago, BluesKing777 said:
Waterloo has a deep V that you like but want to shave (don’t!).
Don't worry, I probably won't. 😄
Excellent sleuthing. I appreciate the history lesson too. I saw that French deep body - that'd be a fun one to try out. I also saw a Blues King from 2001 with a little cosmetic damage but can't tell if it's bubinga or mahogany or anything else really - the seller doesn't know very much.
The Studio is supposed to have an Advance Response neck. Sounds like another way of saying it's a slim taper but hard to tell.
One thing that struck me last night when playing the LG2 is not just the tone and neck feel comfort but also the resonance. Translation: I notice that my left hand really feels the resonance of the body all the way up at the nut more so than with any guitar I've played. Sounds corny, but it's like a like a whole body experience with the LG2. The other guitars I've owned or own, it's only the right hand experience, not both side of the body. Waterloo's I've had or tried (WL-K, WL-12, WL-14Mh) come close with the body resonance but it seems to stop at the neck joint. The L-00 Studio has the same neck joint (I think?) but didn't have the same feel.
SO I guess I'm looking for that tighter sound but also the feel of full body resonance. Does this make sense? I wonder if this is possible? In thinking all this, what factors do y'all see as coming into play here?
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BK, at first I thought the AA pins were some kind of gimmick but I tried them and found they are terrific. Precisely made and go well in my little custom Marton 017 that doesn't like ebony or bone pins. That guitar has a MLO neck and I have the hardest time getting comfortable on it. I need to measure it compared to the 'Loo and LG2.
The Waterloo has a much more pronounced and girthy V shape. When you grab it you wonder if you'll like it and if it's too pronounced. It's very comfortable to me though and and it almost gives your thumb a shelf for leverage.
The LG2 says it has a historic V or something like that and it feels much more like a mid/chunky C shape. Not huge but not small or slim. Whatever it is, historically accurate or not, I absolutely love it. I'l love to find a L-00 with the same shape, or maybe I'll just whittle the 'Loo down a little to mimic it. 😉
The L-00 Studio that I had briefly had a slimmer neck than that LG2. It was nearly comfortable but I wanted a bit more wood on the neck (but also more radius to the fretboard.)
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BK, that's a great lineup of guitars you're wanting to sample. That custom 00-14 Martin looks incredible too. I bet it's a powerhouse - but also similar to the ceo7?. Honestly, most sane people would probably be happy with any of those.
I tell you, the more I play my LG2 the more it comes alive and just begs to be played. I hope you get to at least sample one. I've had a good time trying different bridge pins in it this evening. Antique Acoustics black plastic, Colosi bone and original Tusq all sound great but right now I'm leaning toward the AA pins most.
And the mahogany Waterloo is becoming a really fun flavor adding into the mix. So far I play the LG2 more though.
Ladder braced guitars - LG1 and Waterloo?
in Gibson Acoustic
Posted
Yep, probably. I'll probably end trying to get my own hands on both and giving them a try. I know in the recordings I've hear there's a fairly distinct difference but would still love to hear any experience.
p.s. I didn't fall for it. Not looking up H, Lazy H, etc, bracing. Nope, staying strong. 😄