Mc Cartney Texan

[RichG]

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Round-Shoulder/Epiphone/Paul-McCartney-1964-Texan.aspx

 

Is this one built in Montana? There seem to be three different versions and I can't figure which is which. I'll post this in the Epi thread, too.

 

Thanks

 

Rich

[j45nick]

That looks like the Gibson logo on the label, and given that it has an MSRP of $4900, it had better be built in Montana rather than China.

[zombywoof]

As it is not signed it is either one of the third run of 1,964 numbered Texans made in Japan or one of a very small run of something like 24 unsigned guitars made in Bozeman. As noted above the price would indicate a USA-made guitar as the MIJ run guitars generally sell in the $2K range.

[Red 333]

The Bozeman-made McCartney Texans were called the McCartney USA Texan. There are about 275 of these: 250 are hand autographed (and sequentially numbered, I think) on the blue sound hole label, and 24 are unsigned and unnumbered.

 

Bozeman also made 40 additional Texans that were hand aged to replicate McCartney's Texan as it was at the time (2006). These are autographed on the top.

 

The Japanese-built Texans have a facsimile signature on the label, and are called the McCartney 1964 Texan. There are 1964 of these numbered sequentially, plus a small number that are unnumbered, built--like the 24 unsigned USA Texans--in case of shipping damage or warranty claims.

 

So, it would appear that the link provided is to the Japanese-made Texan. the name is corret, and the description doesn't mention the label is hand-signed. I didn't see an MSRP on the page linked to above, so I don't know for sure. They sold for about $1999 on the street if I remember. In any case, the specs for the Bozeman-made and Terada-made (Japanese) Texans are the same, except for country of origin, and of course, autograph. Interestingly, there are several small manufacturing details details which could lead one to conclude that the Japanese-made Texan is the more accurate version.

 

By the way, that round graphic is the Epiphone Epsilon on the replica sound hole label, Nick, not the Gibson Custom Shop logo.

 

Red 333

[bobouz]

The asking prices were as follows:

 

> $40,000 for the run of 40 handmade Bozeman replicas, signed on the top.

 

> $6,398 for the run of 250 made in Bozeman, signed on the label.

 

> $2,398 for the run of 1,964 made in Japan.

[Gralst]

The asking prices were as follows:

 

> $40,000 for the run of 40 handmade Bozeman replicas, signed on the top.

 

> $6,398 for the run of 250 made in Bozeman, signed on the label.

 

> $2,398 for the run of 1,964 made in Japan.

 

In another thread I stated $25K (stated in an interview somewhere but now that I think about it I think they did list for $39995.95- so I defer to you on that point and thank you.. I think the $25K was the expected street price but these never hit the street and their demand sent the list price skyward for the "40", I'm pretty certain about the $7995.95 being the list for the 250 and $2995 for the Terada. I would have also bought a Terada version but they were pretty rare as well....and maybe the better value in getting into Texan territory I really wanted one of the 250 back then but was not spending eight grand on a guitar that was a replica of an actual guitar I could actually purchase. They did have an over run batch (not sure how many 50?) and they sold for around what the Teradas were fetching. I could buy a REAL FT-79N 1964 Texan (but that might mean I'd have to sell my '65 but WTH...I only paid $220 for it...with the durabilt case when President Johnson in office lol...and that was brand new lol) for what they wanted for a reasonable facsimile.

[ParlourMan]

No idea why anyone would part with 40k for Macca's autograph... it can be had far far cheaper, or free if you happen to be at the right place & time.

 

You could buy a really nice haul of genuine vintage guitars, even Beatlesque guitars of the time if you fancied which would be much more impressive than one massively overpriced modern repro with an autograph. A quick check online shows you can buy autographed memorabilia of Macca from 200GBP to about 1500GBP for nicer stuff, that leaves you 38.5K for a bunch of guitars. No brainer if you ask me.

[RichG]

Thanks for the information. This forum is better than Wikipedia!

 

Rich

[JuanCarlosVejar]

since Rich posted about the Mccartney texans . I'd like to ask why some of the usa editions said Nashville on the blue label instead of bozeman ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[bobouz]

In another thread I stated $25K (stated in an interview somewhere but now that I think about it I think they did list for $39995.95- so I defer to you on that point and thank you.. I think the $25K was the expected street price but these never hit the street and their demand sent the list price skyward for the "40", I'm pretty certain about the $7995.95 being the list for the 250 and $2995 for the Terada.

Gralst, the prices I listed above came from a Gibson flier, received in a shipment from Musician's Friend back when this group of Texans were released. The flier was most likely developed by MF, but only says Gibson/Epiphone. It gives descriptors and prices for many electric and acoustic models that were being sold at the time, but the three McCartney Texans are prominently highlighted, with a few paragraphs of info re each version. All instruments in this flier had their selling prices listed, and based on my knowledge of the more traditional models shown, these were the tagged prices at MF and Guitar Center.

 

Also in the FWIW dept - I recently saw one of the Terada-Japan McCartney Texans going for $999, but it's overall condition was not described. The VG Price Guide values them significantly higher (in excellent condition).

[Red 333]

since Rich posted about the Mccartney texans . I'd like to ask why some of the usa editions said Nashville on the blue label instead of bozeman ?

 

thanks

 

JC

 

Here's everything I know about the McCartney Texans, collected from a bunch of old posts. Your label question is answered specifically in the JANUARY 2012 section.

 

[JUNE 2009]

 

Here's some info I wrote on on a site about Beatles-related instruments and gear, the BeatGear Cavern, about the differences between the regular MIJ Elitist Texan, the MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan, and the USA McCartney Texan. I made some additional comments [in brackets like this] to provide a little more context, since the posts I was replying to are not reproduced here.

 

****

 

Actually, I think the Japanese version is closer to a vintage Texan than the USA model. The USA model lacks the small reinforcement below the sound hole between the X braces, which I've found on every vintage Texan I've examined. The Japanese model does have it. It's minor, I know, but that's the kind of attention detail the Japanese have. Who knows, maybe Macca's Texan did not have this reinforcement...

 

Here's another bit of attention to detail the Japanese got right: the neck heel. The USA versions I have seen are too low and flat. Of course, maybe that is truer to Macca's particular Texan, and necks were shaped largely by hand back in the day, but it is not representative of the vintage Texans I've seen.

 

Oh yeah...McCartney's personal Texan has a dot over the "i" in Epiphone on the headstock. [The USA version does not have the dot, but the MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan does.]

 

In the examples I've seen, the rosettes on the Elitist McCartney Texan and USA McCartney Texans are basically the same, though the USA versions may have some more white binding showing, due to the differences in aging toner in the laquer. [The MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan uses a darker, more amber toner, which covers up the white binding in the rossette somewhat.] The regular Elitist has an additonal outer ring that the Elitist McCartney Texan and USA McCartney Texans do not have.

 

Otherwise, the USA and Japanese-made Texans seem very similarly constructed. If anything, the braces on the back of the Japanese Texans are even thinner than on their USA counterparts, which (again) to me, seems more visually correct.

 

Anyway, the old Kalamazoo Gibsons and Epiphones (and today's Montana built Gibsons) are largely hand built, so there are bound to be variations. Both the USA and MIJ Texans are as close to a vintage Texan as any two of the same model acoustic will be. They are fine sounding guitars, adjustable bridge and all.

 

On a related subject, there ARE differences between the regular Elitist Texan that preceded the McCartney Texan (both made in Japan at Tedara), aside from the nitro finish and tuners [the regular Elitist has a poly finish and Grover tuners]. For one, the shape of the headstock is slightly different. The Elitist Texan also has no carve in the contours of the headstock. In addition, the Elitist also has a neck heel extension, while the Elitist McCartney Texan has a true one-piece neck.

 

Finally, the back braces on the regular Eltist Texan are more like a Gibson Advanced Jumbo's (and less like today's Gibson J45s) in that the lower two are very wide. The lower two back braces on the Elitist McCartney Texan (and the USA McCartney Texans) have the vintage correct high, thin braces.

 

[FROM JUNE 2009]

 

One final thing: please understand that my post above was in response to someone (without either Texan) who wrote that the USA version was closer to a vintage one. My post was to try and make the guy I was responding to understand how skilled the Japanese luthiers were, since he had that very old mindset about Japanese quality. I wasn't trying to suggest the MIJ is superior to the Gibson made version, as in fact, I think they sound very similar and are very similarly well made. The lack of that little soundhole reinforcment strip (it's like a small, wafer thin strip between the x bace and the soundhole) doesn't mean much as far as I'm concerned. Gibson doesn't use them anymore (as far as I know--certainly on no round-shouldered models I've got or have looked at have them), so it's understandable that Gibson just forgot about it (or possibly Macca's guitar DOESN'T have it, who knows?).

 

Wait--one MORE final thing. By a coincidence, I was visting the Gibson Acoustic plant in Bozeman on a day they were working on McCartney Texans. There were bunches of them on racks waiting to be set up and boxed up. I couldn't believe it.

 

While I was standing in the lobby after the tour, Ren Fergeson, Gibson's Master Luthier, signed out a new one that was to become one of the 40 "aged" Texans that sold for $40K. He was bringing it to his own workshop so he could distress it. When I asked about it, he took it right out of the case to show it to me. He also showed me a completed one that he said he was taking to destroy because the tuners had been mounted on backwards! I don't know whay they coudn't be taken off and just switched around (you'd think the screw holes on the three on a strip tuners would match up, right?) so I don't know if he was joking about that or not. Anyway, he was very willing to talk about the Texans, and very gracious with his time.

 

That's enough Texan talk from this Texan. Enjoy your guitar!

 

[MARCH 2009]

 

According to Andy Babiuk's Beatles' Gear book, both Lennon and McCartney got Martin D28's in 1968, so any acoustic stuff he did prior to that was most likely the Texan. It's thought that much of McCartney's White Album acoustic work, including Blackbird, was played on the D-28. In addition to his Texan, he uses Martin acoustics on stage and in recordings to this day.

 

McCartney's Texan, which is a right hand model, is currently set up for left hand playing, but in an unusual way. The original adjustable saddle has been removed, and the large slot for it was filled in with rosewood, which has been slotted for a new saddle. Here's the unusual part: instead of reslotting the saddle for a bridge that is angled correctly for a left handed player, the new saddle maintains the right-handed orientation, though it's at a less extreme angle. As noted above, the saddle is compensated with large tabs on the E and G strings that essentially reverse the angle of the bridge, so the strings are the proper length for a left handed player when they make contact with the saddle.

 

Epiphone issued three styles of McCartney Texans: An Elitist McCartney Texan, a McCartney USA Texan, and a super expensive replica, the Aged USA Texan.

 

As far as I know, all the 1,964 Epiphone Elitist Paul McCartney 1964 Texans (made in Japan by Terada) were made with the original style adjustable bridge, as were the 250 Epiphone Paul McCartney USA 1964 Texans (which were made in the Gibson Acoustic factory, in Bozeman, Montana). Both righty and lefty models seem to have been made.

 

I THINK (but do not know with 100% certainty) that the 40 Aged USA Texans may have been exact copies of Paul's Texan--that is, righty guitars set up to play lefty with the non-adjustable compensated bridge he now uses.

 

[JANUARY 2012]

 

Before Gibson Montana issued the McCartney Texan in 2006, Epiphone had announced that it would be available as a left-handed model set up for righties, so that righty players would be a mirror image of the lefty McCartney playing his righty Texan. I don't know how many they actually made like this, if any (I've only seen regular lefties and righties), but the concept was certainly in their plans when they announced the model at first.

 

Bozeman made 290 McCartney Texans.

 

Forty were the aged and signed Paul McCartney Replica 1964 Texans, that reproduced Pauls' guitar as it is today. Paul had the adjustable saddle on his Texan replaced with a fixed one by the Mandolin brothers, and while it still appears to slant for a right handed player, it was cleverly designed to intonate for a left-handed one. These guitars were signed by Paul on the soundboard.

 

The other 250 guitars (called the Paul McCartney 1964 USA Texans) reproduced Paul's Texan as it might have been when it was new, with the adjustable saddle. These guitars also featured reproduction, period correct blue Epiphone labels that were signed by Paul (though they say "Epiphone Inc., Bozeman Montana" rather than "Kalamzoo, MI" as the original labels would have), and a certificate showing its release sequence (1 of 250, etc.). If any were actually made as left-handed versions set up for righties, I think they would have been from this batch (otherwise the Replicas wouldn't be replicas). I don't know if they actually did this though. They did make left-handed and right handed versions.

 

The final 1964 guitars were the Epiphone Elitist Paul McCartney Texans. They were made in Japan by Terada, and were also available in right-handed and left-handed models. These guitars had a facsimile signature on the repro blue Epiphone soundhole label (which said "Epiphone Inc., Nashville, Tennessee). The last four digits of the serial number indicate which of 1964 the guitar is. A certificate also indicated its sequence (1 of 1,964, etc.).

 

There are also a handful of overruns from the Bozeman-made batches that have no signed/numbered labels, but have a standard Gibson serial number on the headstock (the other Bozeman and Terada McCartney Texans all have the serial number of Paul's guitar). No doubt there are some overruns of the Terada batch, too.

 

Red 333