String spacing at bridge?

[j45nick]

 

I e-mailed Gibson, and they said the string spacing at the bridge from the middle of the low-E hole to the middle of the high-E hole is 2.165". I'm not really sure what that means or translates to as far as what I'm used to for string spacing at the bridge/saddle. Maybe that is 2-3/16" but measured at a different spot. I'm clueless.

 

 

Jesse, that really isn't different from the info you are after. The saddle is not normally slotted, and the longitudinal distance from the pins to the saddle is so small that it has no measurable impact on string spacing at the saddle compared to the string spacing at the pins. 2.165" is just over half-way between 2 1/8" and 2 3/16".

 

I think you are straining at gnats here. Until you try the guitar, you just aren't going to know if it works for you.

[Cibby53]

"I think you are straining at gnats here. Until you try the guitar, you just aren't going to know if it works for you."

I think this comment is spot on ..Jesse I have an idea why don't you come to Bradford,PA and you can play mine for as long as you need to

I've got all kinds of strings to experiment with to plus you can swap out all the different saddle and pin combo's I have.!

 

Seriously I am looking forward to the day you play one and your thoughts on it..

[Jesse_Dylan]

Thanks, Cibby--I wish I could try yours out, too!!

 

In the past, I have had to buy guitars without trying them. Assuming that doesn't happen here, I think it will actually be the first time. I think really the only exception is my D-28, where I did try out a few D-28s, HD-28s, HD-28Vs, D-35s, D-18s, etc, before ordering one. I didn't play the one I actually came to own, though. So, I've always had to do a lot of detective work before buying, and I'm finding it harder with Gibsons!

 

That makes sense, though, that the actual spacing is probably somewhere between 2-1/8" and 2-3/16", just like the nut width is between 1-11/16" and 1-3/4"!

[Cibby53]

I've had to buy many without trying them to Jesse. That's what happens when you live in the Allegany forest. Not much around unless I want to drive to someplace like Buffalo NY. I researched a lot to. After buying the J35 I had a better idea what I wanted in a Gibson. Which helped when I got the Hummingbird.

[fortyearspickn]

Thanks, Cibby--I wish I could try yours out, too!!

 

In the past, I have had to buy guitars without trying them. Assuming that doesn't happen here, I think it will actually be the first time. I think really the only exception is my D-28, where I did try out a few D-28s, HD-28s, HD-28Vs, D-35s, D-18s, etc, before ordering one. I didn't play the one I actually came to own, though. So, I've always had to do a lot of detective work before buying, and I'm finding it harder with Gibsons!

 

That makes sense, though, that the actual spacing is probably somewhere between 2-1/8" and 2-3/16", just like the nut width is between 1-11/16" and 1-3/4"!

 

Jesse, To recap - you plan on purchasing a new H'Bird in 8 months; but are concerned because anything below 2 and 3/16ths is too narrow, anything above 2 and 1/4 is too wide.

With respect, IMHO, you appear to be agonizing over, what seems to be a measure of 1/16th of an inch at the saddle. If you spread that over the six strings - that makes a difference in width between them of 0.0625 inches divided by 6 or approximately 0.01 inches between each one. I think that is smaller than a gnat, but someone check my math! Even if I"m off by 100% - that is still only 2 one hundredths of an inch between strings. That is less than half the thickness of a 1mm pick. Therefore, you could achieve nirvana by using a 0.5mm pick!

You also said the main problem is switching between guitars with different string spacing. I think your hand/brain adjust after 3 or 4 minutes, but regardless - I believe that the neck profile has a significantly bigger impact on the 'feel" of your fretting hand than a sixteenth of an inch, or even an eight! G'Luck.

[j45nick]

You also said the main problem is switching between guitars with different string spacing. I think your hand/brain adjust after 3 or 4 minutes, but regardless - I believe that the neck profile has a significantly bigger impact on the 'feel" of your fretting hand than a sixteenth of an inch, or even an eight! G'Luck.

 

 

Agree completely.

 

Actually, right now I'm moving between two of my favorite guitars in my daily practice sessions: my 1948 J-45 with a 1 9/16" nut (don't ask) and 2 1/8" pin spacing, and my L-OO Legend (1 3/4" nut, 2 3/8" pin spacing). Yes, it takes a few minutes to adapt, but it's actually a pretty good exercise. The narrow nut of the old J-45 really makes you work on left-hand position, and the relatively narrow spacing at the pins requires a certain amount of right-hand precision as well. You could argue that the L-OO is "just right" for finger-picking, and the J-45 is better for flat-picking in a cross-pick style.

 

These two guitars are almost at the extremes of my flat tops, although the even wider nut (about 1.78") of the Luthier's Choice neck on my SJ throws yet another complication into the mix.

 

The bottom line is that most people can adapt to all of these, but that doesn't mean you necessarily should if something really bothers you. At the same time, don't be Goldilocks here if you find a guitar that appeals to you in other ways.

 

Martin's D-28 V, which replicates many of the characteristics of the D-28's of the past, has a nut width of 1 11/16", and a pin spacing of 2 1/8". Few would dispute that the vintage D-28 is one of the great flat-picking guitars of all time, and I doubt if those that made remarkable music with it complained too much about playability.

 

As FYP says, the neck sectional shape is at least as important as the string spacing when it comes to left-hand comfort, unless you have bratwurst fingers.

 

I don't pretend to be a good player, but I can't blame string spacing or nut width for my shortcomings. "A poor worker blames his tools" is the refrain we used when I was building boats.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Jesse_Dylan]

I actually don't think my left hand is too picky, or at least it's fine with the standard nut widths we're discussing here (generally 1-11/16", 1-3/4", and the Gibson standard which is between those two). I can definitely tell a difference, despite it only being 1/16". Since I use a capo a lot, though, and the string spacing gets wider as you go up the neck, I'm never really bothered unless I'm playing without a capo and it's too narrow at the nut. (This sometimes happens with 1-11/16", but it isn't a big deal, and a Gibson is a little wider anyway.)

 

So it's really just at the saddle/bridge, my picking hand that gets confused. I sold a really nice Martin 0-21 because it had 2-5/8" string spacing at the bridge. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but in practice, it just always threw me when I switched to it, and then after I'd adjusted, I was thrown adjusting back to the 2-1/4" I was accustomed to. (Switching between 2-1/4" and 2-3/16", I don't notice any difference whatsoever, though.)

 

I also sold a great J-45 because it was just too narrow at the bridge. I don't know what it was, maybe just the normal 2-1/8", but, again, lots of confusion going back and forth. Or maybe it was an anomaly and narrowed. It felt a little tight at the nut but not so that I'd notice.

 

I think if all my guitars were 1-11/16" and 2-1/8", I'd be totally fine, but then I suppose I'd be complaining about 1-3/4" and 2-1/4" instead! Prior to owning a variety of nut widths and string spacings, it was not something I paid attention to at all and thought people were weird for caring.

 

That's not so say a Hummingbird won't work for me, though. I might not notice at all. Or, I might notice and like it even more than my other guitars!

[BluesKing777]

 

I also sold a great J-45 because it was just too narrow at the bridge. I don't know what it was, maybe just the normal 2-1/8", but, again, lots of confusion going back and forth. Or maybe it was an anomaly and narrowed. It felt a little tight at the nut but not so that I'd notice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which year/model J45? If it is recent, the Hummingbird would probably be the same....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Which year/model J45? If it is recent, the Hummingbird would probably be the same....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

I hope not. :( It was a 1996, I believe, all black with white binding, I think otherwise standard J-45 that came with a really awful Fishman undersaddle transducer, end-pin jack, no onboard controls. Beautiful tone and dark though rather quiet. I always wanted a Hummingbird instead. It was wonderful to sing with.

[Cibby53]

1419954181[/url]' post='1608406']

Jesse, To recap - you plan on purchasing a new H'Bird in 8 months; but are concerned because anything below 2 and 3/16ths is too narrow, anything above 2 and 1/4 is too wide.

With respect, IMHO, you appear to be agonizing over, what seems to be a measure of 1/16th of an inch at the saddle. If you spread that over the six strings - that makes a difference in width between them of 0.0625 inches divided by 6 or approximately 0.01 inches between each one. I think that is smaller than a gnat, but someone check my math! Even if I"m off by 100% - that is still only 2 one hundredths of an inch between strings. That is less than half the thickness of a 1mm pick. Therefore, you could achieve nirvana by using a 0.5mm pick!

You also said the main problem is switching between guitars with different string spacing. I think your hand/brain adjust after 3 or 4 minutes, but regardless - I believe that the neck profile has a significantly bigger impact on the 'feel" of your fretting hand than a sixteenth of an inch, or even an eight! G'Luck.

 

At least this is fun to talk about... I had a J45 1960's custom ebony last year it was black with white binding it had the same nut width as my new to me 2014 Hummingbird 1.725 . The neck however felt to slim where as the Hummingbird has a more round shape and feels much more comfortable. I never measured the string spacing on either. Maybe I'll will on the Hummingbird not that it would change anything it is just right for my hands both of them.

[Jesse_Dylan]

I saw on the Internet somewhere, someone had bought one of the new LG-2 American Eagles. The nut is predictably 1.725", but he measured string spacing at the saddle as being slightly wider than 2-3/16". Not sure what that means for my purposes but I'd be very pleased with that on a Hummingbird. :)

[BluesKing777]

Again, a need to try basis!

 

 

I have played my whole life on standard sizes except for the metal Dobro, because the dread rules the shops here. If they got any of the wide bridge space guitars in, it happened when I was skint. <_<

 

 

10 years I just fingerpicked the Dobro in standard tuning like a normal guitar. This year, I have finally got my hands on the 2 castoffs Martins OMs with large neck/wide spacing. I can now say "Hallelula" There is no return. I ONLY fingerpick, but never say never..... Weird thing is that because of all the years with standard guitar sizes, I can jump over to them without a thought.

 

 

 

 

Here is a link to a thread on UMGF on the 'updated' OM28 - the fingerpickers get angrier as the thread goes on - hysterical thanks guys :

 

 

 

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/reply/1736112/Re-New-Martin-OM28#.VKSfRkIpriZ

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

 

Here is a link to a thread on UMGF on the 'updated' OM28 - the fingerpickers get angrier as the thread goes on - hysterical thanks guys :

 

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/reply/1736112/Re-New-Martin-OM28#.VKSfRkIpriZ

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Yumpin Yeezus! They're as bad as we are.....

[Jesse_Dylan]

Good thing I'm not that picky! Kind of makes me want an OM-28 now. :) I've always fancied a 000-28 actually if not for the nut and string spacing. :P

 

I'm out of town until the 9th. Apparently my local shop has a Hummingbird, which they expect to sell at any time now, and they don't expect another until November. So if I can't try one on my travels or catch that one before it sells, I'm out of luck.

[j45nick]

I've always fancied a 000-28 actually if not for the nut and string spacing.

 

 

Look at the 000-28 EC. 24.9" scale, 1 3/4" nut width, 2 1/4" spacing at the bridge.

 

Almost perfect for you.....

[BluesKing777]

I am on my IPad and have no idea how to paste a link, so I will tell you that a 1968 Gibson Hummingbird is F/S at Dream Guitars....

 

If you look it up, it has the specs: nut wth 1 1/2", bridge string spacing...2"

 

 

Which must the same as the one I tried recently at a shop - it was bizarre to me after my guitars - sounded SUPERB, but felt like a banjo mandolin.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

I am on my IPad and have no idea how to paste a link, so I will tell you that a 1968 Gibson Hummingbird is F/S at Dream Guitars....

 

If you look it up, it has the specs: nut wth 1 1/2", bridge string spacing...2"

 

 

Which must the same as the one I tried recently at a shop - it was bizarre to me after my guitars - sounded SUPERB, but felt like a banjo mandolin.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

I've got two Gibsons with the late-1960's 1 9/16" (39.7 mm) nut width. It's a squeeze in the first position, and the battle is to make all the notes ring clearly. It can be done, but you spend a lot of time figuring out exactly how to place your fingers. And then how to get them back to the same place.

 

Not easy, but some of the guitars are worth the effort.

[Cibby53]

1420128041[/url]' post='1609155']

Good thing I'm not that picky! Kind of makes me want an OM-28 now. :) I've always fancied a 000-28 actually if not for the nut and string spacing. :P

 

I'm out of town until the 9th. Apparently my local shop has a Hummingbird, which they expect to sell at any time now, and they don't expect another until November. So if I can't try one on my travels or catch that one before it sells, I'm out of luck.

 

I measured the string spacing on my 2014 Hummingbird Bird Classic checked it 3 times even put my glasses on. It measured 2 7/32in. I don't know if that is standard on every model or they can vary by the slightest bit. I think that was within the specs you were looking for. I never got into checking string spacing but it's perfect for me just the most comfortable one I have played up and down the neck.

[BluesKing777]

I've got two Gibsons with the late-1960's 1 9/16" (39.7 mm) nut width. It's a squeeze in the first position, and the battle is to make all the notes ring clearly. It can be done, but you spend a lot of time figuring out exactly how to place your fingers. And then how to get them back to the same place.

 

Not easy, but some of the guitars are worth the effort.

 

 

So, what is the advantage of the skinny necks?

 

I have no idea of the reason, but have always assumed it was a 60s bar chord thing - they would be easier to play on a thin neck rather than a baseball bat neck, wouldn't they?

 

 

Anything else - must be or they would not have sold billions of them.

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Look at the 000-28 EC. 24.9" scale, 1 3/4" nut width, 2 1/4" spacing at the bridge.

 

Almost perfect for you.....

 

Yep, would be, but I fancy the straight bracing of the standard 000-28 and don't want Clapton's signature (no offense to him!)--and don't want the extra $$$! :P I will probably never get one. I'm pretty happy with the Martins I have now and want to hang on to them.

 

I am on my IPad and have no idea how to paste a link, so I will tell you that a 1968 Gibson Hummingbird is F/S at Dream Guitars....

 

If you look it up, it has the specs: nut wth 1 1/2", bridge string spacing...2"

 

 

Which must the same as the one I tried recently at a shop - it was bizarre to me after my guitars - sounded SUPERB, but felt like a banjo mandolin.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Saw that at Dream Guitars but did not notice the specs! I can't imagine. I guess maybe the advantage is that it might appeal to electric players more? But if I were looking even for an electric guitar, I'd want wide spacing, personally.

 

I measured the string spacing on my 2014 Hummingbird Bird Classic checked it 3 times even put my glasses on. It measured 2 7/32in. I don't know if that is standard on every model or they can vary by the slightest bit. I think that was within the specs you were looking for. I never got into checking string spacing but it's perfect for me just the most comfortable one I have played up and down the neck.

 

Yeah, I think that really would be perfect for me! I hope that is standard.

[j45nick]

Yep, would be, but I fancy the straight bracing of the standard 000-28 and don't want Clapton's signature (no offense to him!)--and don't want the extra $$$!

 

The solution for Clapton's inlaid signature is a black magic marker, since the board is ebony. When you go to sell it, you can wipe the marker off with mineral spirits.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Well, I was finally able to try a Gibson Hummingbird, at Macari's in London. It was really difficult to get them to let me play it. They don't let people just walk in and play Gibsons, apparently (and here in the UK, they are worth even more than in the US). Also, while it's true I am definitely going to be buying a Gibson soon, I am unlikely to buy in England since it's so much cheaper in my home country of the USA.

 

Anyway, I loved it and would really like to play it again, or play another Hummingbird. It was definitely really comfortable. I have to admit that I did have a little trouble and never did get 100% used to it. Fingerpicking was no problem at all actually, but when strumming and flatpicking, my pick had a hard time finding the strings that I wanted. I don't know why I am able to go easily between 2-1/4" and 2-3/16" yet have issues with this Hummingbird. Perhaps it was an older model and has been in the shop for a while and the newer ones are spaced a little wider. I did also have a little trouble at the nut with my fingers accidentally deadening strings.

 

But, all that said, I was sweaty and super nervous after basically having to convince them to let me play it. They also had a J-160E and a J-100 that I really wanted to play, but I didn't want to push my luck.

 

Tried out an Epiphone Hummingbird Pro and there was absolutely no comparison. Okay guitar, but it did not sound anywhere near the same, nor did it even feel the same.

 

I'm hoping when I get home in a few days that the local store still has their Hummingbird and that I can convince them to let me try it. Again, no intention of buying locally. I would absolutely love to, but they want the full $3600 retail price. I could never spend that when various internet retailers sell it at 60% of that.

 

I can't stop thinking about the Hummingbird I played, though. What would be ideal would be if I could bring one or two of my Martins in with me and switch between them all. That would be a little ridiculous, though.

 

As a side note, this Hummingbird I played in London was much lighter-colored. It was still beautiful, though.

[j45nick]

Well, I was finally able to try a Gibson Hummingbird, at Macari's in London.

 

Anyway, I loved it and would really like to play it again, or play another Hummingbird. It was definitely really comfortable. I have to admit that I did have a little trouble and never did get 100% used to it. Fingerpicking was no problem at all actually, but when strumming and flatpicking, my pick had a hard time finding the strings that I wanted. I don't know why I am able to go easily between 2-1/4" and 2-3/16" yet have issues with this Hummingbird. Perhaps it was an older model and has been in the shop for a while and the newer ones are spaced a little wider. I did also have a little trouble at the nut with my fingers accidentally deadening strings.

 

 

 

Don't judge playability by a single short playing session. I don't know how others here are, but it takes me at least 15 solid minutes of playing to warm up, even on guitars I play almost every day. If it's a guitar for which I have no muscle memory, it will take longer.

[BluesKing777]

Well, I was finally able to try a Gibson Hummingbird, at Macari's in London. It was really difficult to get them to let me play it. They don't let people just walk in and play Gibsons, apparently (and here in the UK, they are worth even more than in the US). Also, while it's true I am definitely going to be buying a Gibson soon, I am unlikely to buy in England since it's so much cheaper in my home country of the USA.

 

As a side note, this Hummingbird I played in London was much lighter-colored. It was still beautiful, though.

 

 

 

We need the model type, specs and year! Large differences between them all!

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Cibby53]

1420584666[/url]' post='1611609']

We need the model type, specs and year! Large differences between them all!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Jesse the specs I gave you for the string spacing was from a 2014 Modern Classic which is of course mine. I would guess you were playig a new model also. I've really been getting adjusted to mine nicely . Playing it about 3 hours a day. I was sure from these posts you would like the Hummingbird I hope it works out for you and you get one.