GlauberJoe Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hi there guys, I'm in need of a Les Paul so I turned to an Epi LP Custom cuz Gibs are really expensive for the cheap quality they are these days... With that said, I spotted this EPI that raised me a few concerns, a lot actually! First of all, the serial says it's a 2004 Korean model, everyone knows they are way better well constructed and have more attention to details than the Chinese ones so just by looking at the headstock, it raised lots of red flags. A 11 year old Alpine White should be at least faded out a bit, creme, like a Randy Rhoads kind of white, but it's brand new, white as snow! To me it looks all wrong, especially the crooked logo, crooked cuts, wrong truss rod cover with high screws and the fading binding I mean creme plastic turning white? Isn't that suppose to be the opposite? So I told the vendor and he supposedly sent an e-mail to Gibson to figure it out, but I'm kinda of curious myself, so is it FAKE or NOT? Thanks, I hope we can solve this and also help users with VALID information about those criminals out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 everyone knows they are way better well constructed and have more attention to details than the Chinese ones Ahh... no. If you haven't the experience of owning or playing a range of different Epis, at least read the comments here from those of us who have. There are plenty of posts here about this. People claiming Koreans are superior to Chinese are usually the people wanting to sell them. This LP is a 2004 Saein, and looks OK from what I can see, although to be sure I would want to see a side view of the headstock where it meets the neck, and a side view of the body, with a closer view of the bindings on the headstock and front of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I have to agree with Vomer here. What I have personally noticed, is that in a lot of ways, and the ways that I personally think matters most, the Epi's in the stores now are at least as good as they have ever been. Better in most areas. I don't get the "expensive for the cheap quality" comment on the Gibson though. What are you basing this on? Where is the "cheap" of the Gibson that you think the Epi is going to be better? Not suggesting you should spend the cash for the Gibson (especially if you can't appreciate the difference), but maybe it's better to base your purchase on what you like for the least amount of money rather than spend "extra" trying to get what people TELL YOU is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson486 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I do not think people are going to waste efforts to fake a $600 guitar when they can just change the headstock and try to fake a guitar that is triple the price. Also, I keep hearing this MIK is better than MIC. I do think the QC is slightly worse than it was when it was MIK, but overall, it has to do more with finish than anything else and nothing really to do with the over all playing quality or sound. For example, I see Epiphone Dots from time to time where it looks like the F hole areas were colored by a 4 year old with a crayon. I do not remember those types of issues when it was MIC. However, all this stuff about MIC guitars with non aesthetic issues or something like fret buzz..... they had those same exact issues when the guitars where MIK. If you really want a MIK guitar, get an Agile. It's pretty much made by the same manufacturers that made the Epiphones when they were MIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I do not think people are going to waste efforts to fake a $600 guitar when they can just change the headstock and try to fake a guitar that is triple the price. When I first joined this forum, I guess 4 years or so ago, I had that same idea. Why go through the effort to make a cheap copy of a cheap guitar? But, I learned that it is VERY common, at least it was. There were at one time some real "experts" on the Epi forum that could point them out. But who cares, right? Maybe to some it doesn't, but I learned that in other countries a genuine Epi is worth a little more than other places. Where in the USA, a used Epi might be worth the same as a copy, not so everywhere. Also, while some copies are as good, many are actually a LOT cheaper than a real Epi. Also, in a lot of other countries, to even sell a forged guitar, regardless of price, is illegal and punishable. I can't tell a fake Epi from a real one. But, one thing I feel strongly about personally, is that if one wants to be legit, than you have to buy from a legit dealer/person. If the guitar is real but the seller is not, than it is not a legit transaction, no better than a fake guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 that headstock is shocking - check out the missaligned curves at the bottom and the tuners (esp on pic from the back) still might play nicely though so depends if you want it for show or go to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 that headstock is shocking - check out the missaligned curves at the bottom The pic isn't taken square on. and the tuners (esp on pic from the back) Those are NFK. (Normal for Korea ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauberJoe Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I have to agree with Vomer here. What I have personally noticed, is that in a lot of ways, and the ways that I personally think matters most, the Epi's in the stores now are at least as good as they have ever been. Better in most areas. I don't get the "expensive for the cheap quality" comment on the Gibson though. What are you basing this on? Where is the "cheap" of the Gibson that you think the Epi is going to be better? Not suggesting you should spend the cash for the Gibson (especially if you can't appreciate the difference), but maybe it's better to base your purchase on what you like for the least amount of money rather than spend "extra" trying to get what people TELL YOU is better? It was only a opinion, not the issue here, I'm trying to make sure it is not a fake ok? But since you ask, do the math: Epis top models LPs like Customs with case are worth X, Gibson entry level guitars with gig bags (really?) are worth at least 2x as much... So you pay more for the brand than the actually product and to me it is not worth 1/2 of that these days. I'm not saying they are bad, but lately quality is really nothing compared to less than a decade ago when they were not so expensive and at least came with cases... Wanna charge top price for low quality to save bucks. And I'm not a noobie, I have 4 Gibs, "old" ones (not original 50s, but all before 09) back when they were top of the line quality wise, not a million dollar brand wise, anyone that says the their studio is great is because they never played on a old LP and that's because they can't afford it! Simple as that. If you disagree, please tell me what gear you have or send me an MP ok, cause it has nothing to do with the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauberJoe Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 When I first joined this forum, I guess 4 years or so ago, I had that same idea. Why go through the effort to make a cheap copy of a cheap guitar? But, I learned that it is VERY common, at least it was. There were at one time some real "experts" on the Epi forum that could point them out. But who cares, right? Maybe to some it doesn't, but I learned that in other countries a genuine Epi is worth a little more than other places. Where in the USA, a used Epi might be worth the same as a copy, not so everywhere. Also, while some copies are as good, many are actually a LOT cheaper than a real Epi. Also, in a lot of other countries, to even sell a forged guitar, regardless of price, is illegal and punishable. I can't tell a fake Epi from a real one. But, one thing I feel strongly about personally, is that if one wants to be legit, than you have to buy from a legit dealer/person. If the guitar is real but the seller is not, than it is not a legit transaction, no better than a fake guitar. Thanks for those words, exactly why I created this topic, people talk without even searching FACTS before giving their opinion about something they don't even know... Yes they copy EPIs, they copy everything, they copy toothpaste for Gods Sake, a product worth less than a few bucks... WAKE UP people! I just want to know opinions about this particular EPI, if it is fake or not. All I care is getting a legit guitar, not a fake one, since IT IS A CRIME and if anyone thinks it is ok to do so you're nothing but a criminal to me really... Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauberJoe Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 that headstock is shocking - check out the missaligned curves at the bottom and the tuners (esp on pic from the back) still might play nicely though so depends if you want it for show or go to some degree. I completely agree, the headstock looks all crooked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 First of all, the serial says it's a 2004 Korean model, everyone knows they are way better well constructed and have more attention to details than the Chinese ones so just by looking at the headstock, it raised lots of red flags. MALARKY!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickC Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The yellowing of the coating will depend on exposure to UV light, as it does with most clear coats (House of Kolor has non-yellowing clears, supposedly). My Orville is very much genuine and is very much still non-yellowed alpine white and very much made in 1998. It is never outside its case when it's not being played and is never played outside. My Epiphone, by weight of comparison, was often played outside in direct sunlight and is somewhat yellow. As is one of my Gibsons, which is also white (and also pre-2009, whatever measure of quality that supposedly is). My other Gibson, an ES-125TDC, was made in 1966, when McCarty was still running the joint. It plays nice. It sounds nice. It's my go-to guitar right now. But it's not the atomic quality difference that some might lead one to believe.* The same goes for Les Pauls, in my experience, really. But, to each his own, I guess! *If you dislike inconsistency in shapes and positioning of hardware, or, perhaps, misaligned tuners, stay away from fifties Les Pauls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt4356 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Im no expert but like others i really can't see anything wrong other than the 'g' tuner looking crooked on the front pic, but the camera looks angled so maybe a trick of the light. The back looks fine and is just shadowing.The white will have a really thick clear over it so should stay quite bright. The script and binding colour match my lp. I have an 04 Sherat on from the same factory and it still looks brand new, it is however not my best epi for feel or finish, that goes to my Chinese dot studio, something cheap I bought to knock around with and I can't put it down! Like someone said 95% of the people who tell you Korean made is better want to sell you one, the other 5% just got outstanding ones. Their are outstanding new ones, if you don't fancy this one try a new one you might like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks for those words, exactly why I created this topic, people talk without even searching FACTS before giving their opinion about something they don't even know... Yes they copy EPIs, they copy everything, they copy toothpaste for Gods Sake, a product worth less than a few bucks... WAKE UP people! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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