J-45 Mahogany vs. Rosewood

[robroper]

Greetings,

 

I've got a Martin D-16 that I've been playing for 14 years, and I love it, but I'm looking to get a second acoustic. I'm thinking the J-45, because I want this guitar to sound different from the Martin. I've played the Mahogany J-45 in a store, and like it, but haven't found a Rosewood model to try. I know it's difficult to put the sound of an instrument in words, but having said that, how would you compare the sound of the Rosewood J-45 to the Mahogany? Keep in mind, I'm looking for a guitar that will be the opposite sound-wise from the Martin.

 

I guess I should say that my playing style is all over the place, from finger picking to loud rock&roll bashing, from standard tuning to DADGAD. I'm thinking, after I buy the J-45, keeping it in standard tuning for strumming, and keeping the Martin in DADGAD. But who knows...

 

Happy pickin' y'all,

 

Rob

[jchabalk]

Check out a Hog J45 with Red Spruce top if you can - True Vintage model, and there are probably others... They're not all over the place, but they're out there.

 

(What's the construction of the Martin? i'm not very familiar with them all..)

[Jinder]

The D16 is Mahogany, right?

 

I would say the Hog '45 will be similar to your D16, just a bit less bassy and more forthright in the mids. However, the RW is a different beast altogether...big, plush, wet, resonant tone but with a strong emphasis on fundamentals when chording, and a big fat chime when fingerpicking. They are unlike any other guitar I have ever heard-not drenched with overtonic shimmer, but very resonant and reverberant in tone, with a noticeable tuck-in at the top end which makes for a very warm guitar with bell-like highs...not a trashy top end as sometimes found in the occasional Mahogany gitbox.

 

I say find a RW 45, play it and, if it speaks to you, let it follow you home.

 

Great, great guitars.

[gtman]

I actually own a Rosewood D-16 and a Hog J-45. I absolutely love both guitars and the difference in sound I get out of each. I keep my D-16 in open tunings a lot of times because of the great resonance the rosewood produces. The J-45 puts off great highs which is a nice change from the sweet bass notes of the D-16 and the brightness of the J-45 is unlike anything. If you are in the same situation I am (rosewood D-16) I say that the Hog J-45 is an excellent choice for a second guitar. The two guitars compliment each other wonderfully.

[ballcorner]

I find that Gibsons really are an opposite sound to a Martin, so whether you go with rosewood or mahogany I think you will like the contrast between the guitars.

 

Having said that, my recommendation is to get rosewood if you play a lot of solos and mahogany if you are a singer. To sing with a rosewood guitar effectively, you need to have a really strong voice. It can be a struggle when the guitar wants to be front and center.

 

In general terms, mahogany is clear and rosewood is dark. I think of them like coffee - rosewood is the espresso and mahogany is the cafe americano. I personally enjoy rosewood guitars, but if I were buying a J45 I think I would opt for a mahogany model with a pickup.

 

One person suggested you try for a model with a red spruce top. Adirondack or red spruce take a lot more time to play in - ten years in my experience - so I suggest you talk to your dealer about that when you are shopping.

[Taylor Player]

My Gibson AJ is Sitka/Rosewood and I recently got a Taylor GSMC which is a Cedar topped/Mahogany back and sides. I would recommend going opposite wood as to what your Martin is. If the Martin is rosewood, get Mahogany. If the Martin is Mahogany, get Rosewood. I love having a varitey of flavors and do a lot of what you do with open and alternate tunings. Currently I have my Taylor 612C (Sitka/Maple) in Standard, my AJ in Open G (Been jamming on Honky Tonk Woman, fun song on an acoustic!) the Taylor GSMC is currently in DADGAD cause Cedar and Hog just screams for Celtic fingerstyle stuff.

 

Even though I am sure your Martin and any Gibson would sound different regardless of the wood combo, having different wood combo's open up a fun world of tonal opportunities.

[vourot]

I think a D-18 would complement my AJ quite nicely. Then I could go J-185 for a little maple flavor. Long range plans to say the least.

[Doc]

Well said in regards to J-45 hogs and the human voice. If you're a singer, go for the hog, particularly if you already have a RW guitar.

 

RW J-45's are rare, stellar guitars. Frankly, I hardly see them in the hands of performers. That might be an interesting choice.

[ajsc]

"I find that Gibsons really are an opposite sound to a Martin, so whether you go with rosewood or mahogany I think you will like the contrast between the guitars."

 

This is soooooo true!! I played an HD-28,& an AJ side by side. I liked both very much, but they are definitely different from each other.

[rustystrings]

I still automatically think "mahogany" when I think J-45. My experience is that they are possibly the ultimate guitar for accompanying the human voice. I think they are perfection in so many ways ...

 

That said, after watching Nick Lowe's performance Saturday night on Austin City Limits (which should have been a whole hour, btw!), I have a new respect for the J-45 Rosewood. Go hear his performance at <http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/> for more ... no flashy guitar playing, but a good sense of how the RW model works in the real world.

[robroper]

Thanks for the great responses. This is a really active forum.

 

The Martin D-16 is mahogany back and sides, spruce top. Just like the Mahogany Gibson J-45, and just like Taylors... that brings up another question: why is it that guitars with the same wood sound so different? It must be the construction methods, perhaps the bracing inside the body?

 

I've always thought of the Gibson J-45's as bassy, the Taylors as trebly, and the Martins in-between the two. All sound good, just different.

 

I am a singer, so I'm looking for something that would be good for strumming chords with a pick and singing with. That's why I'm looking hard at the J-45.

 

There's a store in Denver (where I live) with a Mahogany and no Rosewood, another store with a Rosewood and no Mahogany. Wish there was one store with both so I could compare side by side.

 

-Rob

[Taylor Player]

why is it that guitars with the same wood sound so different? It must be the construction methods' date=' perhaps the bracing inside the body?

 

I've always thought of the Gibson J-45's as bassy, the Taylors as trebly, and the Martins in-between the two. All sound good, just different.

 

-Rob

[/quote']

 

Hi Rob...your statement of how you hear differences between Gibson, Martin & Taylor say's much. Each person hears tone differently. For example, I agree with your assessment somewhat. To me Taylors have a more pronounced Treble response (I call it "Shimmery") but certainly even my 612C Grand Concert doesn't lack in bass response. It is more of a "Balance" that I feel give Taylor their signature sound. My Gibson on the other hand is very even across all strings and most likely the best guitar I own for accompanying a singer. To me Martin is where a boomy bass comes in. This is why many blue grassers love Martins... (Think Boom chucka, chucka with the Martin creating the "Boom")

 

I have found that even guitars in the same style and made by the same builder can sound remarkably different. I must have auditioned 15 Taylor 612C's back in 1994 when I was buying mine new. I found that the one hanging on the wall at the Podium in Minneapolis, sounded and played the best "to me". Certainly bracing styles, wood thickness, neck design, nut & saddle materials, tuners ect. have an impact on the differences as well. But I am pretty sure I could pick out which guitar was made by what company, even if I were blindfolded. Each of the three manufactures you mention no matter what particular model you play, does tend to have the companies signature overall sound.

[Honky Dog]

I still automatically think "mahogany" when I think J-45. My experience is that they are possibly the ultimate guitar for accompanying the human voice. I think they are perfection in so many ways ...

 

That said' date=' after watching Nick Lowe's performance Saturday night on Austin City Limits (which should have been a whole hour, btw!), I have a new respect for the J-45 Rosewood. Go hear his performance at <http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/> for more ... no flashy guitar playing, but a good sense of how the RW model works in the real world.[/quote']

 

I love my Hummingbird, but I love my J-45 Rosewood just as much. Totally different guitars, but both are exceptional. I'm a singer/strummer. Some of my songs are so much better on the Hummingbird, some on the J-45 Rosewood. Some don't care.

 

Thanks for the link, rusty. I'm a fan of Nick since Brinsley Schwarz, so I'll go check it out.

[nobodeuno]

I have a rosewood and spruce custom Martin and a J45 hog....my take is rosewood colors things more...mahogany is less colorful and chimey and sounds better when I dig into it harder.

 

I always liked Doc Watson and Leo Kottke's take on the differences. Doc: Rosewood isn't sonically as true as Mahogany to the listeners, it sugars things up a bit too much for me.

 

Leo: Mahogany and spruce to my ear tends to be much more complex tonally than Rosewood and Spruce, I seem to be able to coax more from mahogany.

[Honky Dog]

<snipped>

 

In general terms' date=' mahogany is clear and rosewood is dark. I think of them like coffee - rosewood is the espresso and mahogany is the cafe americano.

[/quote']

 

Ding. That's a great way to put it, ballcorner. I agree 100%.

[Pickax]

I caught Nick Lowe on Austin City Limits last Saturday and it looked to me he was playing a J-45 Rosewood. Didn't seem to have any difficulties with singing and playing a Rosewood J-45. See here: http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/

 

I bought a J-45 Rosewood a few months ago and I love this Guitar! It can do practically anything - very versatile. I've been a devout Martin player for many many years but I have definitely joined the Gibson camp. I've played some J-45 Mahogany Guitars but I definitely prefer the Rosewood tone over the Mahogany with regard to the 45's I've played.

[wonderful remark]

J45 is the king of Mahogany if you ask me...

 

if you want Rosewood... there is AJ....

[Honky Dog]

I caught Nick Lowe on Austin City Limits last Saturday and it looked to me he was playing a J-45 Rosewood. Didn't seem to have any difficulties with singing and playing a Rosewood J-45. See here: http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/

 

I bought a J-45 Rosewood a few months ago and I love this Guitar! It can do practically anything - very versatile. I've been a devout Martin player for many many years but I have definitely joined the Gibson camp. I've played some J-45 Mahogany Guitars but I definitely prefer the Rosewood tone over the Mahogany with regard to the 45's I've played.

 

I have no problem singing with the J-45 Rosewood. On the contrary, I love singing with it.

[jeff5341]

The J45 is a wonderful guitar either in mahogany or rosewood, but I would also recommend you take a look at the Songwriter Deluxe. I admit I'm biased but I think the Songwriter Deluxe is as good or better, than anything coming out of Bozeman or Nazareth, especially for accompanying a singer.

[nobodeuno]

I agree Jeff...I played a Songwriter Deluxe recently at the Nashville Gibson Factory (mall) that was stunning both astetically and tone wise!

 

As for singing with Rosewood better than Mahogany (visa versa)...that's weird...one is not better than the other...