Pesh Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hello everyone; I'm hoping that some of you keen and budding luthiers out there are able to assist me a bit. As some of you know; I'm currently working my way (slowly) through an vintage-style LP build. I've found myself at a bit of a loss regarding the truss rod aspect of the neck, and how to to cut the channel. I've got a vintage / Gibson style truss rod ready to install, but I've heard conflicting and uncertain reports on how the channel is done. Some suggest that the channel is curved (something I don't quite know how to deal with as I've got a currently straight truss rod). Along with these suggestions comes the advice that the channel is routed with a curved jig to give the profile, and then the filler strip is also carved to match. The second option, which seems to have more support; is a straight channel at a slight taper. The accompanying suggestion is that it's 1/2" deep at the nut and goes down to about 5/8" at the heel, which sort-of matches the profile of the back of the neck. Does anyone have any further knowledge or experiences to share? I am more tempted to try the latter option given its' comparative simplicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The only thing I can say is that unless this is a vintage "replica" I'd go for a modern dual action truss rod. There's no compression of the neck which is, IMHO, far better. That aside, the second description makes more sense to me but I don't know how it "should" be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 The only thing I can say is that unless this is a vintage "replica" I'd go for a modern dual action truss rod. There's no compression of the neck which is, IMHO, far better. That aside, the second description makes more sense to me but I don't know how it "should" be. Thanks, Farns; it does indeed make more sense, considering how much more work would go into the former option. Making a jig for the 1/2" to 5/8" taper instead of a carved / curved profile will be considerably easier to cut. If it also follows the line of the back of the neck; it would mean that when tightened it's pushing an even amount of pressure over an even depth of material along the neck; it won't break through any thing weak points, I guess! I was tempted by a dual-action TR; at one point I had the StewMac hex key version, along with the particular router bit for the right channel in a basket ready to go. I opted to get a considerably cheaper and simpler TR from Guitars & Woods on eBay; they're based in Portugal. The piece seems to be of very good quality and is of the same design as a traditional type. Need to see if I have a 3/16" router bit, now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hello... Well I use the duel action truss rods.. These ones http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390777036680?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=660212588172&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT And these bits drill the right channel for it.. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-75331-Straight-Tungsten-Carbide/dp/B000PJCOPA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466456977&sr=8-1&keywords=6.35mm+router+bit This is how I do it... Position it and draw around it so I know how far to go Heres the bit I use.. Quarter Inch (or 6.35mm) Then what I do is clamp the neck down making sure its flat and not tilting (using my fold away work bench)... And then use a straight piece of wood I put behind the neck and I put the router in place and I clamp that down... I do that at each end and that gives me a straight line to ru the router against (as theres a flat edge at the back of the router) Then you just use the depth gauge to measure 9mm... You do need to make the nut end a bit wider but that's easy... Well that's how I do it and it works for me :) Good luck and let us know how you get on. Theres also loads of vids about this on youtube (im sure you must have seen some).. where you can make jigs and templates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Hello... Well I use the duel action truss rods.. These ones http://www.ebay.co.u...K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT And these bits drill the right channel for it.. https://www.amazon.c...35mm+router+bit Good luck and let us know how you get on. Theres also loads of vids about this on youtube (im sure you must have seen some).. where you can make jigs and templates... Thanks Rabs! I thought you might have some good insights on this; thanks also for the visuals. I'm feeling much more confident on what's next, and will update the build thread (link in signature) when I've got it done. I started measurements on a jig last night so I just need to build that, now, and then onwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Single action truss rod, or all is lost - it'll sound like a basswood Ibanez! Joking aside, I agree with my elders and betters above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thanks Rabs! I thought you might have some good insights on this; thanks also for the visuals. I'm feeling much more confident on what's next, and will update the build thread (link in signature) when I've got it done. I started measurements on a jig last night so I just need to build that, now, and then onwards! Honestly.. the best advice.... If you arnt sure, get some scrap wood and test it first... ALWAYS better to test until you are sure you will do it right on the good wood :) I seem to remember the first time I had to do the TOM and tailstop I probably did like 20 test runs.. Lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 Honestly.. the best advice.... If you arnt sure, get some scrap wood and test it first... ALWAYS better to test until you are sure you will do it right on the good wood :) I seem to remember the first time I had to do the TOM and tailstop I probably did like 20 test runs.. Lol.... Yeah I have got some worries about placement of the bridge and even more about the placement of the control pot' holes. I need to do a bit more research on how to mark where the bridge posts should be; what the slant of the bridge should be, and so on. My concern about the control holes is that I have a template which shows where they should be without issue, but it's 2D; after the top has been carved using the template is going to be more difficult as there won't be a flat surface to use as reference, so the positioning could be off. And drilling the holes through before I carve the top means I risk tear out on the topside when creating the initial step layers of the top carve. And then atop that I've got to drill them at an angle! Having said that; I could use the flat back of the guitar to at least get pilot holes done using the template, and once I've got the general position sorted I can figure it out from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Yeah I have got some worries about placement of the bridge and even more about the placement of the control pot' holes. I need to do a bit more research on how to mark where the bridge posts should be; what the slant of the bridge should be, and so on. Whats important is having a centre line... All your measurements should be taken from that... My concern about the control holes is that I have a template which shows where they should be without issue, but it's 2D; after the top has been carved using the template is going to be more difficult as there won't be a flat surface to use as reference, so the positioning could be off. And drilling the holes through before I carve the top means I risk tear out on the topside when creating the initial step layers of the top carve. And then atop that I've got to drill them at an angle! Having said that; I could use the flat back of the guitar to at least get pilot holes done using the template, and once I've got the general position sorted I can figure it out from there... Placing the bridge in the right spot I don't find so hard... I just make sure I measure the scale length properly (made that mistake before) which is as you know from the edge of the nut to the centre of the 12th fret x2..... what I found hard is that since I don't have a drill press getting accurate hole spacing is a bit trickier.. Just 0.5 of a mm out and it wont fit as the poles will be too close or to far apart. And the bridge is solid so its not like you can squeeze it on :) I just got lumps of wood and tested that I could do it as many times as it took.... As for drilling in general.. To get no chip out what I do is this... For the tuners I drill from the front first till the bit is just poking through.. Like so Then I have a hole at the back in the right place and I just finish it from that side... sorted :) For the pots I do it from the back first.... not done a carved top yet so cant comment too much on that apart from.. did you know.. On the pots, the same side as the shaft, you will notice little blocks sticking out... On flat tops you cut them off.. What they are meant for is that when you do a carved top, you cut one side off and then the pot will lean to one side on the straight surface.. (if you see what I mean).... As I say, if you arnt sure... Test test and test till you are happy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Placing the bridge in the right spot I don't find so hard... I just make sure I measure the scale length properly (made that mistake before) which is as you know from the edge of the nut to the centre of the 12th fret x2..... what I found hard is that since I don't have a drill press getting accurate hole spacing is a bit trickier.. Just 0.5 of a mm out and it wont fit as the poles will be too close or to far apart. And the bridge is solid so its not like you can squeeze it on :) I just got lumps of wood and tested that I could do it as many times as it took.... As for drilling in general.. To get no chip out what I do is this... For the tuners I drill from the front first till the bit is just poking through.. Like so Then I have a hole at the back in the right place and I just finish it from that side... sorted :) For the pots I do it from the back first.... not done a carved top yet so cant comment too much on that apart from.. did you know.. On the pots, the same side as the shaft, you will notice little blocks sticking out... On flat tops you cut them off.. What they are meant for is that when you do a carved top, you cut one side off and then the pot will lean to one side on the straight surface.. (if you see what I mean).... As I say, if you arnt sure... Test test and test till you are happy :) Actually the little protruding part on the pot is meant to keep it from rotating when you tighten the nut. You drill a small hole that it fits into but you wouldn't drill the hole all the way through the top obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Actually the little protruding part on the pot is meant to keep it from rotating when you tighten the nut. You drill a small hole that it fits into but you wouldn't drill the hole all the way through the top obviously. Hmm.. well im not sure where I heard that, or read that.... Lol. I always cut them off.. the nut and the spiky washer thing seem to keep it from turning enough... Actually though thinking about it im not sure ive ever seen anyone use them the way you describe.. But it does make enough sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hmm.. well im not sure where I heard that, or read that.... Lol. I always cut them off.. the nut and the spiky washer thing seem to keep it from turning enough... Actually though thinking about it im not sure ive ever seen anyone use them the way you describe.. But it does make enough sense... Pots weren't designed specifically for guitars, so that part would normally fit into a hole on the panel that the pot is mounted on. It's important to keep the pot from rotating to avoid breaking solder joints, PCB traces, wires, etc Many people use them differently or break them off. If I use a split shaft pot I will stick the broken off piece into the split shaft to prevent it from collapsing under stress. It is conviniently the perfect size for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Many people use them differently or break them off. If I use a split shaft pot I will stick the broken off piece into the split shaft to prevent it from collapsing under stress. It is conviniently the perfect size for that. Ohh nice one.. I like that, good tip cheers :) That's what its all about... Learning the seemingly millions of little tricks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RandyMan Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Now, see? That's why I like this forum. Lots of people that have been there before, giving some straight on advice on how to do certain things. I'm am amateur builder and beginning luthier and enjoy the tips and tricks some of these more experienced builders take the time to share. Granted, not everyone is into the mods and building techniques discussed here, but I for one am really appreciative of those who share their experiences for those of us who want to try something that we've never done. Good luck to you, and hope you're project comes out good and something you can be proud ofand enjoy! Cheers! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Randy: I second that. Squared. This is a wonderful lil (see how youthful I am) corner of the Internet. By no means just thanks to them, but thank you, Capmaster and Bence, who have been immensely helpful... In two seconds flat, tops. Thank you! And Artie. Got an entire new bridge; thanks anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Now, see? That's why I like this forum. Lots of people that have been there before, giving some straight on advice on how to do certain things. I'm am amateur builder and beginning luthier and enjoy the tips and tricks some of these more experienced builders take the time to share. Granted, not everyone is into the mods and building techniques discussed here, but I for one am really appreciative of those who share their experiences for those of us who want to try something that we've never done. Good luck to you, and hope you're project comes out good and something you can be proud ofand enjoy! Cheers! Randy Exactly guys; I know that I can come on here and ask a question without the internet trolls judging me or anyone, and get impartial and experience-backed advice from people in the know. Which is much better than sorting through numerous sites, each offering something contradictory to the last. So thanks randy - very well put. Should you be interested in having a look at the project so far - my signature contains a link to the thread (also on this forum). Hopefully I'll be posting an update shortly - it's all based on when I can get to my dad's workshop, which has all the tools and fun gizmos... Good luck with your project, too; it would be good to see what you're up to if you've got some links or a thread somewhere? It's all about documentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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