Weird early/mid '90s dual action truss rods...

[Jinder]

I slung a set of DR Veritas 11s onto my '95 Dove yesterday...I missed playing it madly, but my joints are still so painful post-illness that I couldn't play it with 12s. I expected the action to drop a touch with 11s, as often happens, of course. 

However, the neck relief did not budge one iota. Same action as with Martin 12s, which of course have thicker cores and higher tension than most 12 gauge strings, and this is with Veritas 11-50s. 

I immediately suspected that I may be dealing with one of the dreaded dual-action truss rods that Hogeye regaled us with tales of in years gone by. I whipped off the TRC and, sure enough, there was the 1/4" brass nut, brazed to the rod. I froze for a moment and scratched my head...do I tweak it and roll the dice on it not working, snapping or worse, or leave it and ride out the higher than standard action?

Of course, I tweaked. I reached for my 1/4" drive 1/4" socket (which always used to be kept close to hand for replacing con rods in modified go-kart engines, the racing of which was a hobby of 27yrs until the Covid crisis and illness had other ideas...as recently as last October, as a "past it" racer on the verge of turning 40, I was leading (and on the verge of winning) the British championship before my stay in hospital made me miss the last two rounds!), And to my delight found that the dreaded dual-action rod was actually in perfect working order...boy, are these things sensitive! Less than a sixteenth of a turn brought the relief down to the perfect place, and the guitar rang out clear and true.

Maybe I got lucky. The 1990 Hummingbird I owned previously (man, I miss that one) had a standard rod, so this is my first rodeo with the double trouble, but it was entirely trouble free. I've heard horror stories about them being stuck fast by glue seepage, breaking necks etc...thankfully I was forewarned so knew to go gently.

Has anyone else come across these oddbod rods?

[ksdaddy]

I flipped a '93 Dove a couple years ago. It needed a tweak as part of a cursory setup before offering it on ebay. It tweaked fine but I was befuddled by it, as I must confess... I was not aware of such a beast.

I think it was a '93. It was around then anyway.

[Dave F]

The 1994 Centennial '34 Jumbo I had, had one. After I realized it, it was nice to work with and very responsive.

[BoSoxBiker]

I had one on another brand. It snapped. $1,200 guitar toast, and the maker. Also have one on a 2014 Epiphone ES-335.

I've read some folks state that they have never had a recognizable tone difference with just 1/16th or even 1/8th of a turn. Some folks get to the point of getting angry at the suggestion. My own experience, though very limited, is like yours. My Maple SJ-200 is especially fond of being in a sweet spot.

Have you used the Veritas before? I like them best on my D-41. I've got a set on my RW Historic Collection SJ-200 right now. I was not as impressed as I was with the D-41, but still had quite a strong projection. I've not tried the extra gold-colored unwound strings yet.

Nice to read that you're able to play some with the Arthritis battle raging.

 

[zombywoof]

My Fairbanks Roy Smeck has one of those dual action truss rods.  I have not had to adjust it but am kind dreading it.

But the early 1990s certainly comes off like Bozeman was doing a lot of fiddling around and experimenting with guitars.  So you got the paddle neck joint, Fullerplast finishes and apparently dual action truss rods.  

Edited January 23, 2021 by zombywoof

[Jinder]

18 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

 

Have you used the Veritas before? I like them best on my D-41. I've got a set on my RW Historic Collection SJ-200 right now. I was not as impressed as I was with the D-41, but still had quite a strong projection. I've not tried the extra gold-colored unwound strings yet.

Nice to read that you're able to play some with the Arthritis battle raging.

 

I really like the Veritas! I put a set on my little Sigma CF-100 copy and was impressed straight away, that was two or three weeks ago and they're still sounding great. I thought I would try another set on my Dove, as I couldn't play it with 12s. Initial impressions are very good-I used the standard B and E on the Sigma and the Xenons on the Dove, not a huge difference but they seem nicely defined and have a strong "pop" to them. I kept the Xenons by from the set I put on the Sigma, so I'll put those on at some point, I'll be interested to see how they compare to the standard wires. 

Yes the joints still aren't playing ball in the way I'd like, but I can play for a little longer now without significant pain, 30 mins or more and it's game over, but it's such a joy to be playing again!

[Jinder]

17 hours ago, zombywoof said:

My Fairbanks Roy Smeck has one of those dual action truss rods.  I have not had to adjust it but am kind dreading it.

But the early 1990s certainly comes off like Bozeman was doing a lot of fiddling around and experimenting with guitars.  So you got the paddle neck joint, Fullerplast finishes and apparently dual action truss rods.  

 

I'm not sure what the logic is/was behind the dual action rod, mine works fine but it would be easy to totally destroy the neck if it was used with the same range of turning as a standard rod. My Dove has seen a great deal of life before it came to me, so I'm surprised it has survived this far! 

There were certainly some wacky ideas about in Bozeman in the early '90s as you said, and they appeared to come and go almost arbitrarily-my former '90 Hummingbird had a paddle neck joint and Fullerplast finish, but a standard rod, whereas the Dove, five years later, got Nitro and what appears to be a standard neck joint, but the kooky truss rod.

One thing seems to be universal though-it was a real purple patch for tone and build quality. The Hummingbird, Dove and also the '94 Blues King that I owned were all exceptional instruments. 

[BoSoxBiker]

3 hours ago, Jinder said:

 

I really like the Veritas! I put a set on my little Sigma CF-100 copy and was impressed straight away, that was two or three weeks ago and they're still sounding great. I thought I would try another set on my Dove, as I couldn't play it with 12s. Initial impressions are very good-I used the standard B and E on the Sigma and the Xenons on the Dove, not a huge difference but they seem nicely defined and have a strong "pop" to them. I kept the Xenons by from the set I put on the Sigma, so I'll put those on at some point, I'll be interested to see how they compare to the standard wires. 

Yes the joints still aren't playing ball in the way I'd like, but I can play for a little longer now without significant pain, 30 mins or more and it's game over, but it's such a joy to be playing again!

I'm so glad my worst hand is the right hand. I imagine everyday life would be better the other way around. Guitar players priorities hot at work. I would be in big trouble if I was a finger picker.

My first set of Veritas went dead as quick as any string I've ever seen. Not in total longevity, but being great one day and then bad the next. Almost no amount of time in any sort of wearing down stage, 

[J185cat]

Okay I will have to expose my ignorance here, how do you recognize a dual action truss rod?  I ask because Dave F above stated his 94 Centennial Jumbo had one.  I also have one (#75) and have always assumed it was a regular action truss rod.  I have adjusted it myself and there is only one nut in the truss rod cavity.

[BoSoxBiker]

On 1/24/2021 at 9:56 AM, J185cat said:

Okay I will have to expose my ignorance here, how do you recognize a dual action truss rod?  I ask because Dave F above stated his 94 Centennial Jumbo had one.  I also have one (#75) and have always assumed it was a regular action truss rod.  I have adjusted it myself and there is only one nut in the truss rod cavity.

On my Epi-335, it was pretty much described in the manual as such. I didn't see anything physical, though there may very well have been something there that I did not recognize.

On a $1100 Breedlove 2011 Jumbo-sized thing I thought was going to be my lifer, it wa covered in the manual as well and had little arrow near the adjustment nut inside the sound-hole. This was 6-8 years back that it snapped with almost no pressure, so I remember almost nothing.

Sorry I've got very little intel.

[J185cat]

Thanks for responding.