southern jumbo ** J-45 / Southern Jumbo Mysteries **

[SC4070]

16 hours ago, Larsongs said:

My Bozeman Masterbilt is Mahogany Back & Sides with Solid Spruce Top. It’s a Ltd FSR Masterbilt from early 2000-2001.. It truly sounds better than any J-160E I’ve ever heard.. Even Johns’ on Beatles records had the sort of dull Plywood sound but Abbey Road Engrs made it sound wonderful. Mine sounds like a top of the line J-45 unplugged.. But plugged in it definitely has the P-90 sound, very Beatle sounding, yet still maintains higher quality Solid Spruce Top sound.. But, still, somehow maintains a great J-45 Sound too.. Love that Guitar!

My brother acquired a late 60’s D-28 a few years before I got my ‘75 D-35.. Both Guitars sound so great! Together they are very complementary..

A couple months ago I acquired a new HD-28E with the L.R. Baggs Anthem Electronics..

I would love the right J-45 to round out my Acoustic dreams.. It’s out there.. I’ll keep searching..

You have a wonderful collection of Acoustics. Enjoy!

Welcome to the Forum!

 

 

 

The Beatles had talent, top-of-the-line engineers, and George Martin. If they can't make J-160E work, none of us can lol

The solid spruce top is a whole new game changer, and it sounds like you don't experience any feedback problems as Gibson anticipated.  If that is the case, J-160E could have been a staple gear among guitarists if it was made with the solid top. You really got lucky with your J-160E!!

[Sgt. Pepper]

6 hours ago, zombywoof said:

 Difference is, I could walk down 48th St in NYC and by the time I reached the end of the block had gotten my hands on every model Gibson had to offer.  These days it would take a search of Biblical proportions to get that accomplished,   

Since the world changed, and everything went up 10 fold in price, it is harder and harder to go to a guitar store, and get what you want. I live about 10 mins from a CG. The last at least 5 to 10 times I have been in there. There is maybe one USA made Martin, usually no Gibson's, one or two non-American Guild's, about 5 Taylors, and ton of sub $500 guitars. The try before you buy is getting harder and harder to do.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 minute ago, SC4070 said:

The Beatles had talent, top-of-the-line engineers, and George Martin. If they can't make J-160E work, none of us can lol

The solid spruce top is a whole new game changer, and it sounds like you don't experience any feedback problems as Gibson anticipated.  If that is the case, J-160E could have been a staple gear among guitarists if it was made with the solid top. You really got lucky with your J-160E!!

Your right the studio and what can be done there to make any instrument sound good, is more than most of us can do sitting on a couch. 

[Larsongs]

13 minutes ago, SC4070 said:

The Beatles had talent, top-of-the-line engineers, and George Martin. If they can't make J-160E work, none of us can lol

The solid spruce top is a whole new game changer, and it sounds like you don't experience any feedback problems as Gibson anticipated.  If that is the case, J-160E could have been a staple gear among guitarists if it was made with the solid top. You really got lucky with your J-160E!!

Geoff Emmerick & Glyn Johns & all those other behind the Scenes Genius’! Yes, I did get lucky with my Solid top J-160E.. I only know one other guy who has one who had a Lennon Spec model but hated it sound & found a guy who wanted it. He then bought the Solid top & loves it!

I can get feedback on any just about any Guitar! LOL! But, yes, my J-160E & Casino’s & Gretsch’s can feedback without trying too hard.. 

I do the feedback thing with my J-160E on “I Feel Fine” purposely! But, I generally don’t have a problem with feedback as long as I’m paying attention to where I’m at, what I’m doing & Dynamics.. But, I’m not playing huge venues… 

I’ve got a great Gibson Les Paul Special with P90’s that can get a very similar sound to my J-160E plugged in..  I can use that one if I ever make it to the Big Time! LOL!

[SC4070]

7 hours ago, Dave F said:

I haven't had a standard SJ and I currently do not have a newer standard J-45. but have in the past

Here's stock photo's of the current SJ Original and standard J-45. I noticed the 20 fret neck and with and without the binding it's like a 21 fret. The Rosetta gives an illusion of different placement but I think the edge of the fret board is even with the sound hole on both models

 

 

Here's a few models I've had but never noticed any big differences.

Here's a Legend and a vintage '42 J-45 then below it the Legend, one of the newer Banner '42 SJ and a vintage '52 J-45. Below that is a Dwight Yoakam Honky Tonk Deuce with a Kris Krisstofferson SJ. notice the Hony Tonk has 19 frets and the KK has 20. It shows the difference in closeness to the hole.

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply and also taking your time to post great photos for references. I'm also absolutely blown away by (appears to be only a part of) your guitar collections.

I was checking other store websites for different photos and was starting to think the they are both flush to the sound hole edge...

 

[SC4070]

10 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Another great thread!  I thought we were stuck in the summer doldrums.  

Welcome Aboard and thanks SC4070 !  Hope you hang around. 

My only observation -  Gibson over the years has made big and small changes to models as well as individual guitars - standard vs custom vs limited.... which make it very difficult to generalize or quantify their changing models.  My thought has always been "If you've seen one J45, you've seen one J45."   They're all different - some a little, some a lot.  Some accidentally or whimsically - some as an evolution of a new 'sub-product line'.  (Original, Modern, Historic, Custom, as nauseam) .      J45s at one time were square shouldered, for example.  While the Southern Jumbo is bling-ier,  they had an even more plain version of the J45 - the WM-45 for several years.  Country Western was a blinged down from the iconic H'Bird - sort of the opposite direction of the  Southern Jumbo to the iconic J45.   So, while I enjoy learning of these differences and similarities,  as a tire kicker,  they are above my ability to nail down. Like a kaleidoscope.  

But I agree - it is important to research these differences and similarities. They may someday point to black and white answers to 'How does bridge pin distance from the saddle affect sound/tone?"   Thanks again for joining us.   

Thank you for your comment.

I agree with you for the most part.  It's nonsensical to diachronically compare all variations. That's why I only wanted to narrow it down to the current versions in the standard lineups.  If we started comparing Custom Shop, Limited Editions, and the actual vintage gears, etc., getting solid answers would be impossible..

One thing Gibson is consistent about is being inconsistent...  This is why I owned at least three, up to seven J-45s when I owned them.  They were hand-picked in person and were all decent, but they all sounded vastly different, too.  It's ridiculous if you think about it.  If you lined up some 2022 Ford F-150, and 3 out of 10 looked and worked like 2018 Focus, people would never trust their products.  But guitars being luxury items made of wood, and Gibson being so iconic, and most because we love the "Gibson sound," they (kind of) get to pull it off. 

I'm a "guitar player," and ultimately, none of these details matter.  As a player, only things that matter are sound and playability. Let's say, if I wanted a Southern Jumbo with bridge section like J-45, instead of asking around online what the differences are, I rather hit the Gibson Customs Shop and custom-order a Southern Jumbo like that.

But that's not really purpose here. I have come to notice that quite a few people reading guitar-related forums are luthiers and their apprentices, and hobbyist guitar makers. We always discuss guitars in players' perspectives, but rarely from the perspective of people that want to make guitars.  Not every difference noticeably affects sound, but to those who are learning, every detail matters. They want to know so they can sleep at night--and so do I lol

Also, Gibson and Martin purchases are prone to paying for counterfeit.  Knowing about minor features that seem unimportant might save someone from getting burned. Slash made his career out of copy models, but few of us are as lucky...

I believe a lot of us are here because we want more information beyond the "player basics"--so let's make it and keep it that way lol

Share, learn, and let the forum be the educational platform for everyone.

 

[SC4070]

2 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Geoff Emmerick & Glyn Johns & all those other behind the Scenes Genius’! Yes, I did get lucky with my Solid top J-160E.. I only know one other guy who has one who had a Lennon Spec model but hated it sound & found a guy who wanted it. He then bought the Solid top & loves it!

I can get feedback on any just about any Guitar! LOL! But, yes, my J-160E & Casino’s & Gretsch’s can feedback without trying too hard.. 

I do the feedback thing with my J-160E on “I Feel Fine” purposely! But, I generally don’t have a problem with feedback as long as I’m paying attention to where I’m at, what I’m doing & Dynamics.. But, I’m not playing huge venues… 

I’ve got a great Gibson Les Paul Special with P90’s that can get a very similar sound to my J-160E plugged in..  I can use that one if I ever make it to the Big Time! LOL!

A friend of mine once said, "The pro of J-160E is: it has the signature sound of The Beatles.  And the con of J-160E is: it has nothing but the signature sound of The Beatles." lol

if I remembered correctly, Lennon moved the P-90 to the lower part of the sound hole at one point and moved it back to the original location later.  I thought he was using Monel strings and picked very close to the bridge. 

Casino and 6120 are both handsome guitars, too.  If I were to do The Beatles things, I probably prefer these these over J-160E.  I've played these two gears only once in my life, but I've seen a few tribute/cover bands that roared out some great rocking tone out of them. I remember being very impressed.

[Larsongs]

2 hours ago, SC4070 said:

A friend of mine once said, "The pro of J-160E is: it has the signature sound of The Beatles.  And the con of J-160E is: it has nothing but the signature sound of The Beatles." lol

if I remembered correctly, Lennon moved the P-90 to the lower part of the sound hole at one point and moved it back to the original location later.  I thought he was using Monel strings and picked very close to the bridge. 

Casino and 6120 are both handsome guitars, too.  If I were to do The Beatles things, I probably prefer these these over J-160E.  I've played these two gears only once in my life, but I've seen a few tribute/cover bands that roared out some great rocking tone out of them. I remember being very impressed.

I agree with your friend regarding the traditional the generally referred to Lennon Spec & the actual Gibson Lennon Spec J-160E’s… I played 40-50 different J-45 & their brethren. I loved many of them.. Then I played the Bozeman Masterbilt Solid Top J-160E which I bought about 20 years ago.. It checked all the Boxes including being what I think is one the most Premium J Series Slope Shoulder Acoustic Electric Guitars..

Over the past 20 years I’ve played lots of Gibson J-45’s & still would like one. Just waiting for one that moves me as much as this J-160E..

About a month ago I did fall in love with a new Martin HD-28E with L.R. Baggs Anthem Electronics & bought it.. The Beatles, CSN&Y & many other Artist’s whose sound I really like played those too..

I’ve got 3 Casinos including  a new USA Casino in the Royal Tan finish. Wonderful Guitars. P90’s are monster Pickups! I also have LP’s & 335 with Humbuckers that are wonderful Guitars.. 

There are just so many great Guitars & so many Sounds that can be made.. Enjoy!

[E-minor7]

18 hours ago, Larsongs said:

About a month ago I did fall in love with a new Martin HD-28E with L.R. Baggs Anthem Electronics & bought it.. The Beatles, CSN&Y & many other Artist’s whose sound I really like played those too..

Yes, but theirs weren't scalloped. CSN&Y only began playing light braced/scalloped later on. Well, not stone sure about Stills, , , rumours says he had a 1939 D-45 🤓. . . 

[slimt]

10 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Yes, but theirs weren't scalloped. CSN&Y only began playing light braced/scalloped later on. Well, not stone sure about Stills, , , rumours says he had a 1939 D-45 🤓. . . 

Im pretty sure Neil Young has the D45. 

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, slimt said:

Im pretty sure Neil Young has the D45. 

You know they all had D-45s from the second wave - that means the late 60s. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by E-minor7

[Larsongs]

Yes they all had D45’s… I couldn’t afford one in 1975 & got a beautiful D-35… I still have it.. 

[slimt]

2 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

You know they all had D-45s from the second wave - that' means the late 60s. 

Im sure they all did.     

[MissouriPicker]

I’ve got a Southern Jumbo and have always understood that it’s pretty much a J45, but just a bit more fancy looking.  Then there’s the Sheryl Crow SJ……. At one point I considered one of those.  Lets face it, having one of those is about as close as I’ll ever get to touching something that looks like something that touched Sheryl Crow’s lap.  Anyway, I don’t need to be touching or sniffing something like that late at night ( there’s already more than enough Emmylou pictures floating around this forum)…….  As it turned-out, I bought Rosewood SJ.