Recording mic recommendations for J45

[cowboychord12]

Morning everyone,

I’m looking to lay down a few acoustic tracks and am looking for any recommendations on mics, or even setup placements too. I’ve been playing for over a decade but have never recorded anything other than through voice memos so this is totally new to me. It seems like the Shure sm57 is a popular choice, what all have you used on a J45? I’m looking to get the most natural sound possible. I was planning on Rode NT1 for vocals as that seems to be the go to. Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thank you all and God Bless.

 

[Phil OKeefe]

Welcome to the forums!

This is a subject I happen to know a fair bit about.   The Rode NT1 will usually work better for both voice and acoustic guitar recordings than an SM57 will, especially if you're looking for a more "natural" sound. Another good choice (on a budget) for acoustic guitar recordings are the Rode M5 small diaphragm condenser mics. They're probably a better choice than the NT1 for that application. They come in a matched stereo pair for $199, the last time I checked, and they really perform above their price range. I was really impressed with their performance and value when I reviewed them, and that's coming from a guy who has about 70 mics in his collection, including some that are worth multiple thousands of dollars each. 

I'd start with one positioned near the 14th fret, about 12" - 18" from the neck, and angled slightly towards the soundhole. The more you angle it towards the soundhole, the more bass you'll hear on the recording. The more it's pointed towards the 14th fret itself, the less bass you'll get. For stereo, I like to start with the second mic placed about the same distance from the guitar, with the second mic placed just behind and below the bridge plate. Again, you can adjust the point of aim and the angles to get different tonal balance. Pan the two mics about 50% left and right to hear it in stereo. You can adjust the panning to taste, too, but that should give you some ideas on where to start. If you only use one mic, try using the suggestions for the one at the 14th fret position. 

Good luck, and please let me know what you wind up going with and how your recordings turn out!

 

Disclaimer time:

The above is strictly my personal opinion. While I work for Gibson,  I do not represent Gibson in any manner in the above post. Any opinions expressed on this matter are my own and not necessarily those of Gibson. My personal opinions are based on my personal experiences as a longtime recording engineer/producer/commercial studio owner and from previous product reviews I did back when I was the senior editor of Harmony Central. 

 

 

[Larsongs]

Good information above in Phil Okeefe post. Condenser Mics are a far better choice to Mic Acoustic Guitars. Whereas SM57’s are great for mic’ing Guitar Amps. But, 57’s are OK used for live if you’re on a budget & want a bulletproof Mic.

Many live Players use 1 Mic positioned 12-18” away from the neck aimed at the 14th fret. It’s easier less cumbersome than having 2 Mics for Guitar & a 3rd for Vocals. And less costly.

I suggest you start with the Positioning techniques Phil recommended above. You can adjust to your taste. There are other recommendations but the above is very good for performing live.

Recording with Condenser Mics, there are some who would place the Mics a couple feet from the Guitar to pick up some of ambient sound of the room. With one Mic aimed at the mid to upper part of the neck. The other Mic aimed at the Bridge or a bit further back. Adjust til you get the sound you want depending on the Guitar your Playing.

 

[Phil OKeefe]

2 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

Recording with Condenser Mics, there are some who would place the Mics a couple feet from the Guitar to pick up some of ambient sound of the room. With one Mic aimed at the mid to upper part of the neck. The other Mic aimed at the Bridge or a bit further back. Adjust til you get the sound you want depending on the Guitar your Playing.

 

I agree that increased mic to source distance can be useful in some situations (solo acoustic guitar recording vs. an acoustic guitar overdub for a busy rock mix), but it does require a "good" sounding acoustical environment, and also requires better quality mic preamps with more available gain and less noise at higher gain settings, especially if you're a softer player or fingerstyle player. For someone who is just starting with recording, those things are probably not available to them. However, with laptops and mobile recording systems, you can always move the recording location to a better sounding room, whether it's somewhere else in your home, a rehearsal studio, a local church or community center room, etc. There's lots of possibilities if you get creative with it. 

[Phil OKeefe]

Also, if your recorder supports it, record at 24 bit, at least 44.1 kHz. As far as recording levels, assuming you're using a digital recorder or DAW software, I recommend keeping your average levels around the -18dBFS range. Peaks can go higher on the meters than that, but never, ever let the signal level go "over" and clip (i.e. hit "0" at the high end of the meters). 

[cowboychord12]

2 hours ago, Phil OKeefe said:

Welcome to the forums!

This is a subject I happen to know a fair bit about.   The Rode NT1 will usually work better for both voice and acoustic guitar recordings than an SM57 will, especially if you're looking for a more "natural" sound. Another good choice (on a budget) for acoustic guitar recordings are the Rode M5 small diaphragm condenser mics. They're probably a better choice than the NT1 for that application. They come in a matched stereo pair for $199, the last time I checked, and they really perform above their price range. I was really impressed with their performance and value when I reviewed them, and that's coming from a guy who has about 70 mics in his collection, including some that are worth multiple thousands of dollars each. 

I'd start with one positioned near the 14th fret, about 12" - 18" from the neck, and angled slightly towards the soundhole. The more you angle it towards the soundhole, the more bass you'll hear on the recording. The more it's pointed towards the 14th fret itself, the less bass you'll get. For stereo, I like to start with the second mic placed about the same distance from the guitar, with the second mic placed just behind and below the bridge plate. Again, you can adjust the point of aim and the angles to get different tonal balance. Pan the two mics about 50% left and right to hear it in stereo. You can adjust the panning to taste, too, but that should give you some ideas on where to start. If you only use one mic, try using the suggestions for the one at the 14th fret position. 

Good luck, and please let me know what you wind up going with and how your recordings turn out!

 

Disclaimer time:

The above is strictly my personal opinion. While I work for Gibson,  I do not represent Gibson in any manner in the above post. Any opinions expressed on this matter are my own and not necessarily those of Gibson. My personal opinions are based on my personal experiences as a longtime recording engineer/producer/commercial studio owner and from previous product reviews I did back when I was the senior editor of Harmony Central. 

 

 

Thank you for this well thought out response, this info helps me a ton. I’ll look into the M5. You bring up another question. I was planning on mono recording through a focusrite solo interface. They have a model capable of stereo recording, would you suggest I record stereo? I’m leaning more towards mono because my goal is to just get down basic demos with decent quality. What are your thoughts?

[PrairieDog]

Following for the info! Thanks Phil and Lars. 

[Phil OKeefe]

33 minutes ago, cowboychord12 said:

Thank you for this well thought out response, this info helps me a ton. I’ll look into the M5. You bring up another question. I was planning on mono recording through a focusrite solo interface. They have a model capable of stereo recording, would you suggest I record stereo? I’m leaning more towards mono because my goal is to just get down basic demos with decent quality. What are your thoughts?

You're very welcome!
 

I'm a sucker for stereo, so I will often record in stereo, even if I might decide to go down to mono for the final mix. In those cases, I can just mute the behind the bridge mic and use the one at the 14th fret. For solo guitar or guitar + vocal recordings, stereo can be really nice, but if the basic idea is to just do a quick demo so you can send it in for your PA/SR copyright registration, or to document the song idea so you don't forget it later, it doesn't matter. Mono should be fine.  If you're doing demos to send to publishers, as long as everything is clearly audible, it probably won't matter one way or the other. Some publishers can't "hear" arrangement ideas in their own heads and want to hear full-blown arrangements on the demos that are submitted to them, while others prefer a stripped-down guitar + vocal or piano + vocal song demo so they can envision the song in various genres and arrangements themselves. When in doubt, ask them what they prefer... but again, it's probably not going to make a difference whether the guitar part is recorded in mono or stereo if it's just a guitar + vocal demo. 

[BoSoxBiker]

Good advice so far, folks.

I second(or 3rd or 4th) the notion of going with at least a 2-mic-preamp interface to start with. It's like you know you're gonna want try it someday and probably soon if you get hooked.

[Larsongs]

Which Focusrite do you have? I use Focusrite as well. Mine is a Claret 8 Pre. What recording Software are you using? 

If you’re making home Demos for fun 1 Mic is fine. I record Acoustic Guitars many different ways. Sometimes I will use 1 Mic & record the Guitar part twice. Double Track Recording if i want really cool Stereo. Playing the 2 parts as close to identical as possible. Mix, add any EQ, Compression, FX & Pan L & R to taste.

There are lots of techniques to record Acoustic Guitars. It depends, somewhat, on the Recording Software you use. I use an older version of Pro Tools & the new Logic 11.

I’m usually the Lead Singer in all the Bands I’ve been in. As far as live goes for years I used a SM-57 & it was fine. Then i decided to use 2 SM-57’s for Stereo. Plus a Vocal Mic for singing. It became a hassle. I went back to 1 Mic for Guitar & think for most cases 1 Mic for live is sufficient for Guitar.

Being that we played a lot of 60’s British Invasion I bought a Bozeman built Gibson J-160E. Like John & George played. It already was an Electric Guitar with a P90 so I plugged it into my Amp. If i need to I will Mic the Amp not the Guitar.

Edited July 20 by Larsongs

[rct]

All good advice here.  I'll go a bit further and say that the mic is only part of the stream.  You need to di/preamp that signal to get it ready to be ready to record, which sounds dumb but is truth.  A mic alone is nothing, it has to be lifted, compressed(even minimally), EQ'd(even minimally), in order to get a good hot signal that is up front and in your face so that later, at that "fix it in the mix" stage that everyone talks about, you can actually fix stuff.

A weak, anemic mic signal will always and only be just that. It needs help.

I don't do mics in my studio, all direct except for vocals.  That means a cheap azz soundhole pickup of choice making an instrument level signal that I then di/preamp/comp/eq and BAM! recording ready signal.

I also go off the di to the rack and make a digital recording ready signal over there, so I've got a stereo left/right juiced up fancified reverb'd and chorus'd  stereo pair to go with the straight up pre-amped comped eq'd dry off the preamp, the same one I use for vocals.

Good luck with it.  It is far more than just sticking a mic in front of something.

rct

[Larsongs]

If you’re using Condenser Mics you do need Pre Amps. I currently use a 2 Channel Vintech 273 Neve Clone Pre Amp.

I’m using a Neumann TLM-49 Condenser Mic & an older USA Cad Equitek E-200 Condenser Mic running thru a Neumann Transformer.

[BoSoxBiker]

@cowboychord12 (the OP) had already mentioned getting a Focusrite interface, model TBD. Just to clarify in an effort to keep you from being overwhelmed or scared off, the Focusrite should come loaded with at least one mic-preamp depending on the chosen model. There is no need to get an additional or separate Pre-amp. Additionally, most of the home hobbyist interfaces' main input channels come with the capacity to handle both Mic signals and DI signals coming from a guitar's onboard pickup. It may be distinct input jacks or it might be the all in one jacks, but it will be there if advertised as such. 

If you decide on an interface and want to verify it does as you want/need, post it here and folks will verify. Changes are that someone here might even use that same interface.

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, BoSoxBiker said:

@cowboychord12 (the OP) had already mentioned getting a Focusrite interface, model TBD. Just to clarify in an effort to keep you from being overwhelmed or scared off, the Focusrite should come loaded with at least one mic-preamp depending on the chosen model. There is no need to get an additional or separate Pre-amp. Additionally, most of the home hobbyist interfaces' main input channels come with the capacity to handle both Mic signals and DI signals coming from a guitar's onboard pickup. It may be distinct input jacks or it might be the all in one jacks, but it will be there if advertised as such. 

If you decide on an interface and want to verify it does as you want/need, post it here and folks will verify. Changes are that someone here might even use that same interface.

Right. There are usually one or two pretty good Pre Amp channels on most Focusrite’s depending on which model you get.

[Boyd]

Have had a pair of Rode M5's for a number of years and they are very nice, although not sure they would be my choice for recording a single guitar. Certainly would work for that, but they will probably pickup a fair amount of ambient sound from your room/environment. At least, that has been my experience. I mostly use them for x/y or ORTF stereo recording at a distance.

I tend to like the Shure Beta 57A better for close-micing of my J-50, it's more directional and not as sensitive (it's a dynamic mic). I suppose you sacrifice some frequency response, but I like the results myself. Of course, it's nice if you can experiment with different mics and placements and draw your own conclusions, but that may not be possible for you.

For recording, I no longer do that live to a computer. A number of years ago I got an 8-track Zoom F8 field recorder (has been discontinued/replaced with the Zoom F8n Pro). They have an iPad/iPhone app to control it which gives you a great control surface for all the tracks and outputs. Plug it into an amp and you have a full sound system. For me, the big plus is not having to mess around with a computer  though, just press the record button. It can also be used as an 8 channel audio interface for your computer over USB if you like. Or you can record to memory cards (which is what I do) and copy to your computer later. Probably not the best solution for everyone, but I love mine and have used it as a full audio system for some "family concerts" with 6 microphones plus an aux input from a phone for "karaoke" type performances. Also use a small effects processor with it for live reverb effects. 

[Lars68]

I record with an Universal Audio Volt (similarly priced and a competitor to Focusrite) interface and an Ear Trumpet Labs ”Myrtle” condensor mic. I am not at all interested or good at the technical side of recording, and I very much appreciate the forgiving nature and the point and shoot aspect of this mic. I have the interface connected straight to my iPad with the Garageband recording software. Very easy to use. Ear Trumpet Labs also has a mic called ”Edwina” which is more for close micing, while the ”Myrtle” is more for recording voice and guitar at once. There are so many choices and easy to get lost, but this has worked for me. Here are some details for more info.

Lars

 

[Larsongs]

If you have an Apple Computer chances are it already has GarageBand preloaded on your Computer, IPad or IPhone. It’s a basic version of Logic. For many it’s all you’ll ever need for making demos & even Pro Recordings.

Apple Logic 11 can be loaded to your Computer for about $300.00. I use both Pro Tools & Logic. Both are the Music Industry Standards. IMO Logic beats Pro Tools because of Customer Support & Tech Support which is U.S. based. Not in foreign countries that take forever to get thru to and then you can’t understand the person you’re talking to.

Apple already has a Camera & IMovie for making Videos. If you have questions or need Tech Support it’s all at Apple. One stop, one Phone Call.

[cowboychord12]

21 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Which Focusrite do you have? I use Focusrite as well. Mine is a Claret 8 Pre. What recording Software are you using? 

If you’re making home Demos for fun 1 Mic is fine. I record Acoustic Guitars many different ways. Sometimes I will use 1 Mic & record the Guitar part twice. Double Track Recording if i want really cool Stereo. Playing the 2 parts as close to identical as possible. Mix, add any EQ, Compression, FX & Pan L & R to taste.

There are lots of techniques to record Acoustic Guitars. It depends, somewhat, on the Recording Software you use. I use an older version of Pro Tools & the new Logic 11.

I’m usually the Lead Singer in all the Bands I’ve been in. As far as live goes for years I used a SM-57 & it was fine. Then i decided to use 2 SM-57’s for Stereo. Plus a Vocal Mic for singing. It became a hassle. I went back to 1 Mic for Guitar & think for most cases 1 Mic for live is sufficient for Guitar.

Being that we played a lot of 60’s British Invasion I bought a Bozeman built Gibson J-160E. Like John & George played. It already was an Electric Guitar with a P90 so I plugged it into my Amp. If i need to I will Mic the Amp not the Guitar.

I was planning on the 4th gen Scarlett solo. My understanding is that interface is one vocal mic input and one instrument mic input with built in pre amp. Is that right? As far as software, probably the free pro tools.

 

Edit: I just saw your reply about why you prefer GarageBand. I have a windows laptop so I am kind of limited there. I’m considering getting a Mac instead because I’ve heard that GarageBand is idiot proof 

Edited July 20 by cowboychord12

[Lars68]

2 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

If you have an Apple Computer chances are it already has GarageBand preloaded on your Computer, IPad or IPhone. 

Yes, my iPad came with Gargeband for free. I think it’s the pefect choice for the not so tech savvy, who just want to focus on the playing. There are probably functions in other pro-oriented software I’m not aware I’m missing, but Garageband is solid and user friendly.

Lars

[cowboychord12]

4 hours ago, BoSoxBiker said:

@cowboychord12 (the OP) had already mentioned getting a Focusrite interface, model TBD. Just to clarify in an effort to keep you from being overwhelmed or scared off, the Focusrite should come loaded with at least one mic-preamp depending on the chosen model. There is no need to get an additional or separate Pre-amp. Additionally, most of the home hobbyist interfaces' main input channels come with the capacity to handle both Mic signals and DI signals coming from a guitar's onboard pickup. It may be distinct input jacks or it might be the all in one jacks, but it will be there if advertised as such. 

If you decide on an interface and want to verify it does as you want/need, post it here and folks will verify. Changes are that someone here might even use that same interface.

Thank you for clarifying focusrite interface comes with built in pre amp. Now that I have (sort of) figured out hardware, I think I’ll start watching YouTube videos of the actual recording and mixing process.

[Lars68]

Just thought I should clarify that there are two “Lars” in this thread. Confusing, but at least I think I know who I am… 🤪

[Larsongs]

5 hours ago, cowboychord12 said:

I was planning on the 4th gen Scarlett solo. My understanding is that interface is one vocal mic input and one instrument mic input with built in pre amp. Is that right? As far as software, probably the free pro tools.

 

Edit: I just saw your reply about why you prefer GarageBand. I have a windows laptop so I am kind of limited there. I’m considering getting a Mac instead because I’ve heard that GarageBand is idiot proof 

Just a FYI

Keep in mind the Pro Tools is 3 month free trial of their basic edition. I’m not sure the cost after 3 months but it used to be $500-$600. Then every year there’s a subscription fee of another $100 or so to get upgrades & Tech Support in the Philippines, Nigeria or somewhere else offshore. That take forever to call & talk to someone you can’t understand.

Also, keep in mind learning curves for each type of Recording Software is infinite. I know, I use Pro Tools & Logic. I have friends who use others like Studio One, Cakewalk or others that are all completely different as well. Each with their unique learning curves. Plus, it’s great Recording Sofware. IMO & experience equal to Pro Tools.

I like Logic as it’s a lower price one time cost, free upgrades, no subscription fees & far better USA Tech Support.

Edited July 20 by Larsongs

[Lars68]

If simplicity and ease of use is important to you, the mic below is a great alternative, especially at the current price. No interface needed.

https://apogeedigital.com/product/apogee-mic/

Lars

[Larsongs]

8 hours ago, Lars68 said:

If simplicity and ease of use is important to you, the mic below is a great alternative, especially at the current price. No interface needed.

https://apogeedigital.com/product/apogee-mic/

Lars

She said you don’t need an Interface. You just plug into your Computer, pull up Garage Band, Logic or whatever Recording Software & record. Is that true?

[BoSoxBiker]

I had forgotten about that corner of the music creation hobby world. Some of those USB mics even have headphone jacks. I used one made by Blue quite some time ago. I ran it into a simple, but free DAW software called Audacity.