1970s Gibson Acoustics . . . .

[Wise Hoo Fan]

I am in the market for a guitar and a buddy of mine has a line on a 1970s Gibson Acoustic. I am not sure of the make/model yet, so I can't offer that, but I was wondering if anyone had any general opinions to offer.

 

Thoughts on Gibson acoustics from this era?

[DanvillRob]

I bought a '69 Gibson Jubilee about 35 years ago.... a TOTALLY fantastic guitar...it's beginning to resemble Willie Nelson's "Trigger", (broken in several places from my pounding on it to keep time), and even had the head stock broken off, (thank you, Amtrac), and it still out plays most guitars you'll ever find.

 

Getting a "cheap" guitar right out of the box can do a lot of damage. If a guitar is too hard to play, a new player could give it up. We can't all start out with SJ-200, but a 70's Gibson Acoustic should do the job. I'd have someone with decent skills try it out first.

 

Bob

[drathbun]

Which end of the 70's? My '77 Hummingbird (purchased new in 1977) was firewood.

[DanvillRob]

Which end of the 70's? My '77 Hummingbird (purchased new in 1977) was firewood.

 

Yes...but was it GOOD firewood?

[Modac]

This is what the authors of Gibson's Fabulous Flatops ( a very pro-Gibson book) had to say about Norlin era Gibsons....."...under this new ownership, quality sank to a level almost beyond resuscitation. Profit driven and wanting nothing to do with warranty work, Norlin redesigned the flatops, made them strong and sturdy----and tonally dead. Excellent materials were still used, but the flatops were being seriously overbuilt. Gibson was lucky to survive this 16 year period of Norlin ownership." (1969-1984)

[drathbun]

Yes...but was it GOOD firewood?

 

Probably not since it sounded like it was made of wet cardboard, I bet all it did was smoke and smell. LOL

[Wise Hoo Fan]

I was told late 70s, but I need to find out the year and model number.

 

I have been plunking around on a Yamaha for a number of months now and want to buy something better. I don't mind spending a little money, but I want something good.

 

A buddy of mine in NYC - who is also a professional musician and an amazing guitar player - said it played and sounded great. Also mentioned he would buy it if he wasn't having a second guitar being made for him.

 

He described it as being slightly smaller than a dreadnaught and fit for both fingerpicking and flatpicking.

 

Another thing I am considering is whether to go for something like this or spend some money on a foreign made guitar. I lean towards buying American, but there is no way I can touch a new American acoustic (based on what I have looked at so far).

[TommyK]

Most of the 70's was during the Norlin Years. They braced 'em up so warranty was avoided. Down side all that bracing muffled the guit tars' voices. For these years, you just have to play them. Some were good, some were bad. No way of telling unless you play it.

 

Up side is it belongs to your friend and pre-purchase playing is not a problem. Down side is if it's a dog, you have to tell your friend his axe is junk. Upside is it might be a keeper.

[Wise Hoo Fan]

Actually, it belongs to a friend of my buddy, so his opinion become a bit more valid, in that he has nothing to win or lose in the discussion.

[Pascal]

This is what the authors of Gibson's Fabulous Flatops ( a very pro-Gibson book) had to say about Norlin era Gibsons....."...under this new ownership' date=' quality sank to a level almost beyond resuscitation. Profit driven and wanting nothing to do with warranty work, Norlin redesigned the flatops, made them strong and sturdy----and tonally dead. Excellent materials were still used, but the flatops were being seriously overbuilt. Gibson was lucky to survive this 16 year period of Norlin ownership." (1969-1984)[/quote']

 

Well, I don't know if 84 counts as a "down" year, but I own a 1984 Dove (90th anniversary) among other Guilds and Martins, and it is probably the best sounding acoustic I have ever heard.

[QuestionMark]

I am in the market for a guitar and a buddy of mine has a line on a 1970s Gibson Acoustic. I am not sure of the make/model yet' date=' so I can't offer that, but I was wondering if anyone had any general opinions to offer.

 

Thoughts on Gibson acoustics from this era?[/quote']

 

 

Some were great (and are great bargains for their quality)...some were, uh...not so great. The key is that the 70's Norlin era instruments were inconsistent in their quality control...meaning some of awesome instruments and some were not so awesome. Many have misinterpreted this era as though all were bad. They weren't. They were just inconsistent.

 

Hope this helps.

 

QM

[onewilyfool]

I played a 64 J-45 that was maybe the best Gibson Dread I've ever played.....It was not over braced.....

[Johnt]

Most of the 70's was during the Norlin Years. Some were good' date=' some were bad. No way of telling unless you play it.

 

.[/quote']

 

 

Wise words TK!

 

My 79 J45 is fine and has met approval from far more experienced players than myself.

 

I did get a chance to play another, seemingly identical, 1979 J45 and it was pants!

 

As ThermioNik stated a few weeks ago just because it says Norlin doesn't mean it's bad

 

just like just because it says Bozeman doesn't mean it's good.

 

Personally I'd rather have the variances becuase the alternative is mass produced, over jigged instruments acheiving a consisten t quality which possibloe equals Krap.

 

End of ad for vintage and rafter !

[Rambler]

its not the poorer Norlins were random: the standard double xbrace, oversized plywood bridgeplates and such did not make for an open ringing tone. Still, they were Gibsons--some of the character is bound to show through.

 

Its when you compare em to 34-54 models that the difference shows.

[QuestionMark]

its not the poorer Norlins were random: the standard double xbrace' date=' oversized plywood bridgeplates and such did not make for an open ringing tone. Still, they were Gibsons--some of the character is bound to show through.

 

Its when you compare em to 34-54 models that the difference shows. [/quote']

 

I feel obliged to somewhat defend the 70's double X bracing...my 1972 Southern Jumbo has the double X bracing and I swear over the years its one has just gotten better and better and better. Not that other bracing doesn't sometimes work better...its just that while the double bracing often routinely gets a bad rap, I don't really think that's what makes some of the 70's Gibson's be less desirable. It's kind of like the neck volute on the '70's Gibsons. While it is different in that the volute doesn't appear on other Gibsons throughout the years...it really isn't bad...many very fine stringed instruments throughout the years have a neck volute....just not Gibsons, which cosmetically contributes to 70's Gibsons being different. Yet, some early 70's Gibson necks even with the volute were awesome.

 

There were some definite oddities and inconsistencies during the 70's years, though that contribute to the bad rap. I've seen some of the most bizarre binding on some Gibson 70's guitars as well as some models with the strange binding and then some with Gibson's normally cool binding....all on what should be the same model. Same thing with neck size. Some of the same model have totally different necks only a year or so apart.

 

Also, a number of models have factory set higher action at the 12th-17th fret (which are totally playable and actually make some of them intentionallly be extremely loud guitars)...but, then I've seen some that in addition to the acceptably set factory higher action have warped to be even higher action (a problem)...perhaps due to the heavier bracing? Then...again, even on my 1972 Southern Jumbo out of the blue its neck actually developed a twist in it...although the current Gibson Companywas great about reheating the neck and setting it straight again (and its been fine now for about twenty years.)

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is Gibsons' from the 70's can be really good...but can also be inconsistent and at times even quirky due to inconsistent quality controls and at times some things that simply different (and perhaps an occasional fed up plant luthier who wasn't reigned in as he should've been had management been paying closer attention).

 

QM

[Jinder]

QM has a point.

 

Norlin Gibsons have a bad rep, but I have played some really nice guitars from

that era.

 

From what you have said (smaller than a Dread, versatile) the guitar you mentioned sounds like a MK series Guitar. You could actually be onto a winner here, the MK series were the only Gibsons of the era to not be megabraced, due to the use of designer Mark Kasha's scientific approach to guitar resonance, resulting in his patented 'fan bracing' system.

 

I have really enjoyed the MKs I have played. The ones go hunt down are the rather rare (but arguably superior) MK53 (Sycamore/Maple & Spruce) and the MK72 (Rosewood & Spruce). If you ever see a MK81 or MK99 (both Rosewood, both ULTRA rare, under ten MK99s were ever made) then snap it up immediately...they are very valuable guitars. Rumour has it that there were a handful of MK series 12 strings made too (again, under 10), as prototypes. These are highly sought after too.

 

The MKs are unusual sounding guitars with a vibe and a character that is all their own. I would love to own one.

[J45dale]

The Norlin era Gibsons are not to be compared to the slope shoulder, short scale J-45s of a earlier or even of a later to present period Gibson.

I purchased my 1972 J-45 Deluxe used in 1975, and it appears to be a "go to" guitar for a lot of un-educated players at a lot of jams.

It has become sweeter over the years, as it has a large amount of play time. I use D'darrio EJ16 light gauge P/Bs and will say that due to its soft tone, ( double X braceing), I feel they must be changed often.

The bridge is belly down, with a fixed, non adjusting saddle, and a non chunky thin neck. It also has a 25.5 in. scale so there is nothing else to compare it to.

While I prefer the current sound there is nothing wrong with the old Deluxe. I was offered cash last week from a Martin guy who loved the "feel"

As they can be picked up cheap, they can make a good beater.

Mine is in great shape except or the deep furrows in the Rosewood fret-board, and will not be for sale.

As always, try to play before pay.

Dale.

[Modac]

but I own a 1984 Dove (90th anniversary)

 

That was made in Nashville. The Nashville made guitars were pretty decent.

[Modac]

I have really enjoyed the MKs I have played.

 

The Mark series was the highlight of the Norlin era. They can be had today relatively cheaply. They have "Kasha-style" bracing, which was an attempt to merge classical and steel string design. They were developed by Richard Schneider.The ones I played were bright, articulate and responsive---but not quintessentially Gibson sounding.

[Pascal]

That was made in Nashville. The Nashville made guitars were pretty decent.

 

I'm not up to par on Gibson history.... I need to buy this book you are referring to.

So where were they produced during the Norlin era?

[Modac]

Kalamazoo (mostly)....the Norlin era acoustics were so bad , that they had pretty much stopped building acoustics in Michigan, because no one was buying them (some of them may sound good now, but they suffered by comparison when they were new, not only to Martin, but to the older Gibsons). They closed the Kalamazoo plant in 1984. Earlier, they had purchased a place in Nashville where they were building electric guitars. In 1984, they decided to re-spec and reissue the Hummngbird, the Dove, the round shoulder J-45 and the J-200....technically, these were still Norlin era guitars, but the R&D team decided to build the guitars properly anyway, despite corporate whim....and they were built in Nashville, until the Bozeman plant began production.

[AlanC]

I own a Norlin made Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary. Great guitar, great sound, plays well, still in mint condition but is extra heavy in weight!!

[Pascal]

Kalamazoo (mostly)....the Norlin era acoustics were so bad ' date=' that they had pretty much stopped building acoustics in Michigan, because no one was buying them (some of them may sound good now, but they suffered by comparison when they were new, not only to Martin, but to the older Gibsons). They closed the Kalamazoo plant in 1984. Earlier, they had purchased a place in Nashville where they were building electric guitars. In 1984, they decided to re-spec and reissue the Hummngbird, the Dove, the round shoulder J-45 and the J-200....technically, these were still Norlin era guitars, but the R&D team decided to build the guitars properly anyway, despite corporate whim....and they were built in Nashville, until the Bozeman plant began production.[/quote']

 

Cool info...thanks!

I just learned about the history of my own guitar