Adirondack or Sitka Top

[eeh1]

Which do you prefer and why.

 

Amen

[BigKahune]

To my ears -

 

adi produces a more mellow, warm sound.

 

sitka produces a somewhat brighter upper end.

 

I like 'em both and I've have both. I tend to use the adi on softer material and the sitka for louder more aggressive sound.

[J185-4Me]

Red ("Adirondack") spruce in most cases. Particularly if you seek that old timey thump sound of the 30s and 40s Gibsons.

 

Sitka plays a role too, don't get it wrong, Sitka can be a wonderful wood choice too. Much (if not most) of it comes from the builder's crafting of the instrument, thicknessing, bracing, etc.

 

A lot of our current "rhythm machines" -- J-185, Everly Bros., Hummingbird, Dove, for example -- were almost inevitably built using Sitka tops, not red spruce, so technically, sitka is an "incorrect" choice. (If that makes sense....)

 

But for many guitars, given the choice, I would usually opt for a red spruce top.

 

Fred

[rar]

But for many guitars' date=' given the choice, I would usually opt for a red spruce top.

[/quote']

 

+1. My Adi-topped J-200 is so good that, although "incorrect", I don't care.

 

But, I have to admit, I have few Sitka-topped guitars that I wouldn't change a thing about, such as my '57 J-50. It sounds exactly the way it's supposed to.

 

-- Bob

[Sacdubro]

To my ear red spruce adds a bit more snap and projection than sitka. I've had a guitars with red spruce in past and wish I'd kept only one of them. In general, I perfer sitka but if the guitar has the tone I'm looking for I don't care what top it has. The differences are very clear if you are able A/B simlar models. As always, you've got to let your ears guide the way.

[bkharmony]

The tonewood it's paired with makes a big difference. For instance, I wouldn't want an Adi top with Rosewood - too mellow for me. But Adi with Mahogany is real nice. (And I'd love to hear a nice Adi top J-45 or J-185 with Maple B/S.)

 

When I'm just sitting around playing at home, I like the big, bright jangle of Sitka. But the truth is, for most practical applications (recording and playing in a group), Adi works real well. It's focused and cuts through a mix without sounding shrill. It's got punch, but a warm punch, if that makes sense. (And of course, you gotta take into account all the other variables: strings, saddle, nut, pins, pick type, playing style, etc.)

 

My .02. Take with grain of salt, as I've still got a lotta learning to do about woods.

[suburude63]

I am an adi topped guy ! There is a drawback with adi in the sense it takes a long time to open up completely . Some say 10 years > I dont know where they got the time line really ? Most higher end luthier made guitars have the adi tops. Especially if they are trying to duplicate vintage sound. Adi was far more available during the 20s 30s and 40s. In the 50s it started to decline in use both for economic reasons and availability. Economics was a big reason. Today some makers , Collings for instance charges $1000 for an adi top over the standard sitka. Martin also high. There are many theorys both mystical and real to use adi for tops. I like the vintage sound so I go with adi/red spruce. I also think they are beautiful ! See below.

 

Kopp K35

[BigKahune]

Holy cow suburude!!

 

That finish is stunning, as well and the grainging. Love the way the pickguard flame angles against it.

 

Thanks for posting the pics, they are gorgeous and I haven't seen them before. WOW!!!

[suburude63]

Holy cow suburude!!

 

That finish is stunning' date=' as well and the grainging. Love the way the pickguard flame angles against it.

 

Thanks for posting the pics, they are gorgeous and I haven't seen them before. WOW!!!

 

 

Thanks Man!

 

Kevin Kopp uses the alcohol based stain swabbed by hand (very very time consuming BTW !) His guitars as well as nailing the vintage K35 sound are peices of art! :-

[bkharmony]

There is a drawback with adi in the sense it takes a long time to open up completely. Some say 10 years > I dont know where they got the time line really?

 

I don't know if this is proven, but I tend to believe it. Maybe it's not the same thing, but my Adi top opens up after 20-30 minutes of playing and sounds like a completely different guitar. I'm guessing over time, it doesn't take that "warming up" period.

[Old Neil]

So much depends on the builder the guitar type and the intended use. Adirondack/red spruce feature on Martins 'Golden Era' 1930's guitars which are held in such esteem these days so people make assumptions that it must be the best choice for everything.

A few things I've noticed though:

# If you are playing loud, unplugged Bluegrass with a thick pick, and medium to heavy gauge strings on a scalloped, forward-shifted braced dreadnought then yes, you may prefer the punch and bite of red spruce. The spruce is said to have the highest 'headroom' when driven hard. That is, there is less chance of the sound breaking up and becoming un-musical or compressing and flattening out.

# If your dread is unscalloped and 'back-shifted' - which already makes the top quite stiff like a modern, standard D-28 - then red spruce would probably make it too stiff and 'tight' sounding. It would take a long time to open up.

#Softer spruces, even on a dread, may be preferable if you do fingerstyle work along with picking. The top will move and show its dynamics with less effort. It can be a very 'pretty' sound when played with delicacy and dynamics. Engelman spruce for example was a popular top in the '60's as seen on Neil Young's D-45 for to give a famous example of a mixed styling player.

#Smaller bodied guitars often get softer spruces but not always. Again, build and bracing play a huge part in the final result.

#Red spruce is way too stiff for nylon string classical guitar as it won't generate enough force to vibrate the top musically. They traditionally sport cedar tops.

#Sitka is often underated as it is so common on solid wood guitars but its lushness and complexity are perfect for many types of guitars and applications. Again, bracing and build modify all these comments. On Collings guitars (which I find a little 'cold and metallic' on some models) I actually prefer a Sitka top. I'm probably in the minority over at the Collings forum though, bless 'em.

# One slight contradiction I've noticed is on a J-45 TV I've played and commented on these pages. It has an Adi top but is warm and soulful. It does have that classic 'snap' when pushed though.

#One of my favorite guitars that I foolishly sold to fund more GAS had an Italian alpine top. The punch of Adi with a rounder finish to the attack. Just great.

 

Well, I hope that's enough confusion for one post.

[Hoss]

Either works for me. Red Spruce is nice to have on a guitar if you ever plan to sell it, because of the Hype that surrounds it. (Mostly from the non-playing guitar collecting crowd.)

 

But I've played enough great guitars with sitka tops to never say 'never'.... Too many wonderful vintage Martin and Gibsons with sitka tops to be dismissive of that wood.

 

I also believe that if sitka had been the commonly used top wood during the "Golden Era" ('1930's)- it would be the wood du jour.

[docwatsonfan]

I'm with Sacdubro on this ..... SNAP and PROJECTION ..... are two adjectives that come to mind with my two guitars....

 

I used to think adi topped guitars were all hype, of course I only had experience with two adi topped guitars, a reissue Gibson OJ, and a Martin CEO4,

both to me were lacking...........both seemed tight, and perhaps needed that "opening up" thing

but I'm getting old and don't have time for that LOL

 

so recently I scored a used 2004 Martin D28CW ( RW/adi)

and a new 2009 Bourgeois 00 Country boy ( mahogany/european red spruce )

 

now I am sold on this top wood

I find both guitars to be punchy , and focused, with incredible projection

 

one simple G run on these guitars and you're hooked!

[Guth]

I judge each guitar individually. I've owned both sitka-topped and adi-topped guitars. I like both. I've always selected the guitar that happens to sound the best to me, whether it uses sitka or adirondack spruce (or any other variety of spruce for that matter). To put it another way, I'd rather have a stellar sounding example with a sitka top than a mediocre example with an adi top and vice versa.

 

All the best,

Guth

[Old Neil]

+ 1 for that Guth. If a given guitar speaks to you then what more do we need to know? I could be exotic woods, it could be carbon fiber. Mind you such sensible thinking is not the stuff that drives guitar forums!

For what its worth my personal order of what most affect how we expect a guitar to sound like is this:

# Guitar shape (dreadnoughts will most likely sound big and 'dreadnoughty'. Parlour guitars will sound like a parlour guitar etc)

# Builder. This includes bracing styles, neck joints, bridge plates etc

# THEN wood choices

# Then esoteric stuff like varnish finishes, hide glue joins etc

# Then string, bridge pin and even pick choices

# Then of course the small matter of the skill of the player to bring out the strengths of a given guitar and express themselves through it...uh hmmm...but lets not dwell on that. :D

 

So woods and the like are fun to talk about but a good guitar is a good guitar. After all, how many here have played many Gibson models of the same spec before they found the one that spoke to them?

[nid2007]

I've been all over the map on this--wherever my GAS takes me, that is where my want obsession lies...at times that has made Adi the "must have." My current favorite is my Maple AJ, with a spruce top and maple back and sides (which I previously swore was the wrong wood for me!)--so my current thinking is none of this wood stuff matters to me...it is all in what that complete box sounds like and how it fits the player's songs. Am I maturing...or just getting old? :D

[Modac]

Unless its a well aged guitar, I prefer Red (and almost any other topwood, including cedar) to Sitka. Sitka, until it seasons, often yields too thin and wiry treble sounds for my playing, liking and needs....once it gets some age on it, I generally dont have any quibbles...but any new guitars that interest me, start off with Red, Alpine or Engelmann tops

[Guth]

Mind you such sensible thinking is not the stuff that drives guitar forums!

 

I suppose that simple observation does cut to the quick of things.

 

Then of course the small matter of the skill of the player to bring out the strengths of a given guitar and express themselves through it...uh hmmm...but lets not dwell on that.

 

Ah yes' date=' that "small" matter of playing skill. Funny how quickly I can filter this out of the equation.

 

So woods and the like are fun to talk about but a good guitar is a good guitar. After all' date=' how many here have played many Gibson models of the same spec before they found the one that spoke to them?[/quote']

 

This hits the closest to home for me. Very good observation.

 

Thanks for a most enjoyable post.

 

All the best,

Guth