So I decided to go for a Ph. D in Music Education

[ledzep59]

For those of you that didn't know I am 26 and teach philosophy at Kennesaw State University here in Georgia. I recieved my Master's in Interdisciplinary Humanities concentrating in modern studies a little over a year ago and my undergraduate degree was also in Humanities with concentration in music.

 

Since I can't really get a good paying, tenure-track job right now, I figure going back to school wouldn't be a bad idea not only because I love learning but also because if I do wish to stay in academics a Ph. D would give me more opportunities and higher pay. I have always loved and focused my studies on aesthetics (I also used to teach multicultural film and Latin American cinema) so I figured that the music education program would be a good fit for me. Aesthetics are my passion so I figure I can forge a dissertation mixing music/philosophy/teaching and have it turn out pretty good since I am experienced with interdisciplinarian approaches. I have already written several interesting essays in the past mixing topics such as Aaron Copland and American exceptionalism and NWA and pragmatism.

 

So I have been playing guitar for almost 15 years now, but my theory is not too good. I am kind of nervous that my theory maybe too weak, even though my knowledge of music history is pretty strong. However, I am one of those people that never has needed to give more than 50% effort and still manage to hang with the smartest. I was just sharing this information with you guys to see how some of you feel about teaching music.

[dem00n]

Hmm...you know a link where i can learn more about this Ph. D in music education?

[ledzep59]

Hmm...you know a link where i can learn more about this Ph. D in music education?

 

Well it depends where you want to go to school. Some schools have programs and others don't. I applied to one at GA State Univ. here in Atl that is out of the school of education (and partially by the school of music). Here is a couple links, follow the the ones that say music education:

 

http://www.music.gsu.edu/gradedsapplicationchecklist.aspx

 

http://www.gsu.edu/degrees_programs_graduate.html

 

But you should look at schools in your home state (for financial purposes) or other schools/locations that interest you. Your counselor would definitely help you out. These degrees also require some undergraduate and graduate work with music, so you might also want to think about undergraduate programs that follow that track (music, education, music history, etc)

[dem00n]

Well it depends where you want to go to school. Some schools have programs and others don't. I applied to one at GA State Univ. here in Atl that is out of the school of education (and partially by the school of music). Here is a couple links' date=' follow the the ones that say music education:

 

http://www.music.gsu.edu/gradedsapplicationchecklist.aspx

 

http://www.gsu.edu/degrees_programs_graduate.html

 

But you should look at schools in your home state (for financial purposes) or other schools/locations that interest you. Your counselor would definitely help you out. These degrees also require some undergraduate and graduate work with music, so you might also want to think about undergraduate programs that follow that track (music, education, music history, etc)[/quote']

Thanks!

 

Also good lucky with the classes.

[zigzag]

Excellent! What would that degree teach you and what could you do with it?

 

I had a very interesting course in undergraduate school- The Philosophy of Art. My professor, Paul Ziff, wrote one of our texts called Philosophic Turnings (Essays in Conceptual Appreciation). Interesting book; sounds like it might be right up your alley.

[ledzep59]

Excellent! What would that degree teach you and what could you do with it?

 

I had a very interesting course in undergraduate school- The Philosophy of Art. My professor' date=' Paul Ziff, wrote one of our texts called [u'][/u]Philosophic Turnings (Essays in Conceptual Appreciation). Interesting book; sounds like it might be right up your alley.

 

Well with a Ph.D I could probably teach at many levels ranging from elementary school up to graduate courses in college. Personally, I prefer teaching at the college level because you can discuss more complex ideas and the students are more eager to learn. Most of the time your career and focus will be related to whatever you write your dissertation on.

 

The degree gives you the opportunity to focus on whatever aspect of music education interests you: cultural, psychology, philosophy, theory, performance, etc. It basically teaches you the theory and methodology behind music pedagogy and how to put it to use.

 

The philosophy course I teach is an intro course so we cover a lot of ground: epistemics, metaphysics, ethics, aesthetics, political philosophy. My favorite has always been aesthetics.

 

I sent in my applications a few weeks ago and should hear in about two months. I have a interview this Friday down in Tampa at USF with the director of the program who sounds very interested to have me as a doctoral student.

[zigzag]

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

[ledzep59]

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

 

Thanks, zig. I appreciate it- I will let everyone know how it turns out.

[Riffster]

Wow, I commend you.

 

You could not pay me enough to go back to school, I graduated college at the age of 20 with an Accounting mayor Finance minor and never looked back. I never understood the academic types, I could not wait to get the hell out of college. I actually chose a career where I could make a living and would not have to go to school ever again.

 

I speak English and Spanish fluently at professional level, the only reason I would ever go back to school is to learn Italian, Portuguese or French other than that I will seat on the sidelines.

 

Music is a great subject though...worth it for sure.

[rocketman]

That's a great idea! You'll need to know theory inside and out to get a Ph.D. though. I would start studying now. As an academic who was graduated a number of Ph.D.'s I can tell you that hard work will get you everything you want. I have turned away a number of Ph.D. candidates because their heart wasn't in it, but I have yet to turn one away who impressed with their work ethic, no matter their GPA.

 

Academic life is a good life. My world is a lot different than the music world. The competition is fierce though either way, especially these days. We recently got 300 applications for one position. To get into academia you need to separate yourself from the other candidates. Finding a good Ph.D. advisor is the most important part. A good advisor will recognize that you want to be in academia and will guide you through the process while you're in graduate school. A good advisor will also have the right connections (I ended up doing my postdoc at NASA because of my advisor's connections there). Find a number of schools. Visit with many of the faculty. Don't send out emails though. We academics get a zillion of them. Nothing beats a one-on-one meeting.

 

Good luck!

[NeoConMan]

Yep, lots involved in a Ph D - and it's not a cookie cutter thing like many would presume.

 

I'm with Stiffhand myself, I've been in college three times and managed only to accrue a 4.0 in a bunch of

classes that had nothing to do with each other. Got my pilot's license on the side during one stretch.

 

At the nuke, we spend one week out of five in requalification training with a do or die test on Friday.

Professional training, seminars, certificates, conferences, one after another for years now - kinda tired of it.

 

 

That being said, I've seriously considered trying to find a fast track to a law school.

That's about all I really see applying a ton of effort toward.

 

 

Good luck, whichever path you find yourself on.

 

[ledzep59]

That's a great idea! You'll need to know theory inside and out to get a Ph.D. though. I would start studying now. As an academic who was graduated a number of Ph.D.'s I can tell you that hard work will get you everything you want. I have turned away a number of Ph.D. candidates because their heart wasn't in it' date=' but I have yet to turn one away who impressed with their work ethic, no matter their GPA.

 

Academic life is a good life. My world is a lot different than the music world. The competition is fierce though either way, especially these days. We recently got 300 applications for one position. To get into academia you need to separate yourself from the other candidates. Finding a good Ph.D. advisor is the most important part. A good advisor will recognize that you want to be in academia and will guide you through the process while you're in graduate school. A good advisor will also have the right connections (I ended up doing my postdoc at NASA because of my advisor's connections there). Find a number of schools. Visit with many of the faculty. Don't send out emails though. We academics get a zillion of them. Nothing beats a one-on-one meeting.

 

Good luck! [/quote']

 

Thanks for the advice. I said the 50% thing not because I slack off- I always read, understand, think critically, and attend class. Whenever I write I throw myself into my work and make sure I am satisfied and others will be impressed. These past 4 years of graduate school and teaching made me realize that I really do live a lot differently than most academics. It seems like my colleagues are all into staying with academic trends and going to conferences, and really spending every waking hour as a scholar. That's just not my scene. I enjoy too many other things outside of school to be spending that much time on it. That being said, if I do get accepted and I decide to attend, there is no doubt I will work hard and submit only my best efforts. The reason I am pursuing music education is because I love education and music, and know I would be able to enjoy whatever I learn. I plan to study theory and improve my knowledge of it, but do not plan to ever really teach any sort of theory-based course; my interest lies in aesthetic philosophy.

 

Academia is great, especially if you get a tenure-track position. There are also good benefits if you end up teaching for a state or government institution. My family is mostly academics- my dad has a Ph. D in physics and he is the one really pushing me to go back to school.

 

BTW Rocket, what field are you in?

 

Stiff and Neo- life in the ivory towers is not for everyone. Another big issue for a lot of people is just the notion of spending loads of money instead of going out and working and building your career. I just love learning about many things and could probably attend different schools for different things for the rest of my life. Some people just don't like that. If you do want to go to law school, you should. It is never too late to go to school. Some of the students I teach are easily double my age and many of my students have full-time jobs and just attend school part-time (I teach evening classes). Most of my friends are not in academia and sometimes their company makes me wish I was with people who were into reading and thinking more, but many times when I am with academics I want to be with more down-to-earth people. For me school was always a love/hate sort of thing because I love learning and understanding beautiful ideas, but I don't want to just talk about them in a passive intellectual way, I like to go out in the world and put them to use.

 

Thanks for your support and ideas!

[NeoConMan]

Another big issue for a lot of people is just the notion of spending loads

of money instead of going out and working and building your career.

THAT was always my problem.

I was always able to make good enough money that I couldn't wean myself from it to stay in school.

 

 

 

I just love learning about many things and could probably attend different

schools for different things for the rest of my life. Some people just don't like that.

I love learning about many things too' date=' and in my jobs I've always been able to see and learn more than the

next guy because I would get off my *** and go see what was going on "over there" or wherever...

Even my hobbies are about learning all I can about whatever I may encounter.

 

I consider myself pro-active in the concept of "living & learning" and I expect the same of my wife and kids.

Wake up and look around. Turn off the damned TV, get off the phone, and go outside!

 

Many of my friends and family are in academia, my wife is a teacher in Phoenix public schools.

Been surrounded by teachers all my life, dated several over the years.

Became great friends with a couple college instructors I had.

 

When I am with academics I want to be with more down-to-earth people too.

Unless they have something profound to offer instead of deep thought that seems to just go in circles...

How many times have I sat and listened to pseudo-intellectual psycho-babble and then asked them

[b']"Wait a minute, go back to what you just said about (blah, blah, blah) and explain that to me again...."[/b]

They realize I'm actually listening, and they're just blowing hot air, so I get silence accompanied by The Look.

 

 

Funny thing, the philosophy cats and arts guys can get pretty abstract.

But I find it's the engineers (I thought their world was facts and data) that will try to blow smoke up your ***.

 

 

 

For me school was always a love/hate sort of thing because I love learning and understanding

beautiful ideas' date=' but I don't want to just talk about them in a passive intellectual way,

I like to go out in the world and put them to use. [/quote']

Exactly.

I think you get it, and that's how I've felt since I first got out of high school.

College only reinforced that notion on about 9 out of 10 days.

I'm sure you're much better able to find that balance than I ever was.

 

Again, good luck!

[zigzag]

Allow me to stir the pot.

 

Academia has its place. I credit intellectuals with at least attempting to examine all sides of an issue to come out of a question with a viable solution to progress in a positive way. The problem with many intellectuals is too often their lack of creativity and the ability to understand reality (those who can, do; those who can't, teach). But being anti-intellectual and anti-academics is, in many instances, to defend an indefensible status-quo.

[myspace.com/jessenoah]

I take a bunch of music classes, but I am not a music major per-say, but I under stand that there are times where music majors @ my college will be required to sit down and listen to a minute or so of a classical piano piece , then be required to tab/write out the piece of music on paper...

 

meaning your ears have to be as good as your theory, can you imagine having to be able to write out a section of piano riffage in C#, all those sharps, I would go crazy! lol

[L5Larry]

I greatly admire your Ph.D ambitions, and plans to stay in the education business. Although not one myself, I come from a family of teachers, and have considered going back to school (at 50+) for my teaching credentials. Primary school math or science would be my interest.

 

Musically, I am involved with a bunch of music educators and degreed musicians. One friend of mine coupled his undergrad music degree from Eastman with an MBA. He moved through the ranks of orchestra management, to the position of Director Of Operations for one the the top orchestras in the United States, all by he time he was in his early 30's. He was then "lured" away from the orchestra biz by the jazz world, and for the last ten years or so has been Executive Director of a not-for-profit organization that runs one of the top 10 jazz clubs in the U.S., provides many educational programs to area schools, scholarships, private individual and group instruction, classes, seminars and other programs for youths and adults.

 

All this is to say that a little BA goes a long way, even in the music field. I'm not sure if "grant writing" is part of the BA program, but that is also a "must" in any arts field these days, whether in academia or the private sector. Something else you mind find interesting for your music studies is that "performance" is it's own course of study these days.

 

Good luck to you, and keep us posted.

[milod]

Music ed... Yeah, I had a "learning theory" fetish for about a year or so to try to figure out my own problems in learning languages when I was a kid, and yet now can handle more stuff than the classmates I've talked to since who got good grades (mine were horrid) but now have little or no recollection of the classes or ability to use what was taught.

 

Why am I a lousy sight reader and yet started reading at age 4? Actually, I'm probably worse than lousy. Why didn't it "click" and how might it have clicked? Why does it still not click?

 

I helped a friend who had his masters in music ed figure how to do a guitar-oriented high school music course a thousand years ago or so, but... he took what I'd shown him and discussed in terms of teaching concepts and made it work better with kids who were somewhat less than motivated. How? I don't know.

 

I've taught a number of other things, sometimes with pretty good success, sometimes wondering if I were looking too much at a "whole" rather than "parts" students could pick up. Stupidly turned down a shot at being a small high school music teacher in the days when it would have paid for me to finish an undergrad degree and then more...

 

So... what you do in a PhD program would, of course, make a huge difference on what you do in the future, but for what it's worth, I've never lost my interest in learning theory... Applied to music ed... Hmmmmmm...

 

Seriously, best of luck...

 

m