Oh no!!!

[Vic Flick]

Don't you have enough photos and magazines to keep your little mind busy? I don't have to prove anything to you by posting little pictures. I haven't posted photos anywhere on line since 2002 when my web site was hacked and raided and people were selling my guitars on E bay and out of a web store based in Singapore using those photos so screw you. Maybe that's your little ego trip showing off your BS collection but it isn't mine.

 

One last thing, Albert Tross (if that's you're real name) mentioned he had a "Terada-made Epiphone with the serial number of 65783." Interesting, I don't see many of those around. So I asked, "How about a photo???" And that's the response I got???

[TheX]

Still no moderators in this place? This conversation would make for great emails.

[frenchie1281734003]

Calm down Jerry,Albert Dross,sorry Tross ain`t listening!.I know how good or not good my guitars are,as i`m sure you do yours,i also happen to think that both you and Uncle Al are amongst the most knowledgable people on this forum,but when this knowledge collides,particularly when two have a different take on things,we all need to run for cover!.As for me i can hand on heart say that Uncle Al hasn`t taught me anyhing about Epiphone history i didn`t already know,even Walter Carter could do with getting some facts right!(those 82 archtops were Terada were they!,see page 80 of Epiphone the complete history).I`ll keep playing and gigging my Matsumoku guitars,safe in the knowledge,the electricals,are good,the construction solid,and the sound quite good(but don`t tell Al,he thinks,they all fell apart,a long time ago),unlike that useless L6s i had!!.

[brad1]

 

Don't you have enough photos and magazines to keep your little mind busy?

 

 

 

Does it make you feel good to give out personal insults to others?

[Guest]

 

I wrote a perfectly civil response' date=' didn't even argue with you about the Matsumokus (I see Frenchie took that issue up), the only thing I said you were wrong about is Samick stopped making Epiphones in 1999, and the only reason I said that is because I have a 2001 (not 2002). But you're so certain your right that you shoot back sarcastically:

 

[i']You probably should hold on to that 2002 Samick if it is in deed a 2002 because if it is it's as rare a bird as you have in your collection.[/i]

 

Well, here it is:

 

 

 

A civil response? No, it was an attempt to pick apart my post and show that you have some kind of superior knowledge because your nose is out of joint for some reason. I spent my time attempting to replace some lost information for the forum-information that I'm going to say with absolutely no false modesty that I was originally the source of much of but because of this other middle school nonsense Jerry had to *correct* me. I'm glad he has a 2001 Samick and that it's a source of great pride for him but my statements about Samick were based upon a conversation I had with the president of this company in the old forum right about the time that guitar was probably made or maybe a bit after (2002/2003 ?-some one else I'm sure remembers when exactly that was). You see, Rosenberg was all freaked out because this Korean girl discovered her counterfeit Les Paul Custom was made of papier mache (she smashed it in a video she was making and surprise...it wasn't even wood) so she came here with photos and was complaining and Rosenberg was afraid of all the ramifications so he had to explain that it was a counterfeit and even though no one is really sure what wood is used for them, they weren't papier mache at any rate... so he was here taking questions and I asked about Samick making Epiphones and Rosenberg responded by saying (And I don't remember the exact quote so I'll paraphrase) "Samick has entered bankruptcy proceedings and is no longer making guitars for Epiphone and our products will now be based in our contract factories" Now I know Samick returned to making guitars eventually because there are things like the Greg Bennett (sp?) models so if there are obviously post-'99 Samick-made guitars around but to what extent any of them were Epiphones I had no idea beyond hearing previously that Samick was no longer making Epiphones. Pretty trivial as were most of the so-called rebuttal of my post. I also have tired of hearing what sleeping giants of the vintage guitar world the Matsumoku-made Epiphones are. They were by comparison to what else was happening at the time in Japan extraordinary. The Korean Epiphones of the late 80's/early 90's did though pick up where the matsumokus left off.-the P-90's, Yeah, I will say I don't have a lot of personal experience with but I have heard them...and I've heard P-90s in everything from 50's Gold Tops to 60's Casinos to 90's Terada-made Casinos (and I have to admit I made a mistake-my serial number is 65883 not 65783) and the Matsumoku 70's P-90's aren't quite there. The humbuckers from this era I'm very familiar with and they're total crap period. The bottom line is I made a post trying to be helpful. When I first made the post I was still angry at all the crap that had been going on so I made some pointed remarks directed at Jerry. After I posted I read a post by Sublex that brought me back to reason and I felt I should change the other post and I did. But Jerry used the original to quote so that he could make the ninny ninny post pointing out all the *errors* in my post. pretty middle school stuff if you ask me-well, I responded and no, I'm not going to play nice with someone who wants to continue and here he is doing the-"look how offensive he was with me BS" I couldn't care less about Jerry, his guitar collection or his opinions but if he wants to play gun slinger and come after my posts that can work both ways.

Someone mentioned Walter Carter and the inaccuracies in one of his books. I've known George Gruhn and his faithful bearded sidekick Wally The Wonder Carter since the 80's. I've pointed out some of those printed inaccuracies in person to him and he conceded that mistakes do occur so I guess I can also concede mistakes do in deed occur. If you want to offer a correction to something I post other than some trivial nonsense I will gracious concede if you are correct, if you only want to attempt to discredit me simply for your own pathetic ego enhancement by using said trivial nonsense I will take you to school. "The how about a photo?" statement was Jerry essentially calling me a liar and implying that I didn't have such a guitar. No, I don't like to post photos because of some nasty business a few years back but I will this one time post a photo (if someone will help me out here with the how to) of my 1993 (est) Epiphone '65 Model Casino Serial number 65883 in vintage cherry sunburst and current date stamped to prove I do in deed have one on the condition that if I do, Jerry public ally apologizes for the implication that I was making it up. I am so sick to death of photos. Photos mean you have nothing to say or that you want to show off and there's a whole web site of Epiphone guitars if I want to see one (or any brand for that matter). Especially in a forum where it's meant to be about conversation not a picture book or show and tell. I personally think all photos in a forum should be restricted to its own area. They take up space and break up the continuity of the thread unless being used to cite a specific example. But I'll do it this one time on that one condition. I don't have to make up anything and I sure don't like having to prove myself but this has gone far enough. Photos are almost as lame as putting everything you own down to your brand of strings in your signature. If I did that it'd take up a whole bloody page. Unless you're Eric Johnson or Clapton I doubt anyone really cares what brand of strap you use-That has nothing to do with anything else but I figured while i was on a rant I'd include it because it does bug me.

 

 

 

My pappy used to tell me that the only person who would argue with a fool is a bigger fool, so I'm not going to aruge all your pointless points with you. I don't need to, you lose every time you resort to name calling. But I will point out one thing that you said about me is totally wrong. You said:

 

There are some Japanese guitars from that era that were extraordinary such as the original Ibanez L-5 Copy that morphed into the George Benson model but you don't own any of them...

 

Among the photos of my cheap guitars I posted was this:

 

 

 

 

For anyone who's unfamilar with that guitar, that's my George Benson model Ibanez. I also own several other vintage Ibanez solid bodies.

 

 

I think you need to go look up "morphed" in a dictionary. The George Benson model was the much smaller and much more common model that was probably derived from a very rare Ibanez L-5 copy carved top model with a rubbed lacquer finish that came along at the end of the "Law Suit Threatening" era ('75) and you still don't have one of them. I've seen three in the past thirty years and one of those was on E Bay and I dropped out of the bidding at $3K because as awesome as it is-I'm not paying three grand for any Japanese copy-it ultimately went for over $4k. There was also a L-5CES version that had a pressed top and that also is more common and is actually the probable source of the Benson which is more ES-175 ish. The next closest thing to the L-5 was a limited edition Epiphone Emperor model from the early 90's that someone recent mentioned over at the old forum but as they mentioned, these were ruined because they used that plastic poly finish on them. The vintage Ibanez solid bodies like the Artist were good examples of the better guitars of that era but again that's all relative considering how far mass-produced guitars have come in that time-they're big with niche collectors who do the 70's Japan thing. A former poster named Heliman had a nice example of an 70's Ibanez Artist. Seriously Jerry, you do have the makings of a nice pawn shop though.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[Vic Flick]

 

A civil response? No' date=' it was an attempt to pick apart my post and show that you have some kind of superior knowledge because your nose is out of joint for some reason. I spent my time attempting to replace some lost information for the forum-information that I'm going to say with absolutely no false modesty that I was originally the source of much of but because of this other middle school nonsense Jerry had to *correct* me. [/quote']

 

 

I was civil, I didn't call you names. I didn't tell you to screw yourself. I did add some things you left out of your post, like the colored labels and the 84/85 serial numbers. I didn't realize it was against the rules to add some facts to the knowledge base, sorry.

 

And I am truly sorry that so many things bug you about this forum.

 

CheesyMac

[Vic Flick]

..."The how about a photo?" statement was Jerry essentially calling me a liar and implying that I didn't have such a guitar. No' date=' I don't like to post photos because of some nasty business a few years back but I will this one time post a photo (if someone will help me out here with the how to) of my 1993 (est) Epiphone '65 Model Casino Serial number 65883 in vintage cherry sunburst and current date stamped to prove I do in deed have one on the condition that if I do, Jerry public ally apologizes for the implication that I was making it up.[/quote']

 

You're paranoid. I never said you were making it up, I asked if you would post a picture because I wanted to see what a Terada Casino looked like. You don't see many of them, I was curious to compare it to my Matsumoku and my old Elite.

 

There are numerous occasions when someone writes about their guitar and I'll ask them to post a picture. My God!!!

 

CheesyMac

[Vic Flick]

Calm down Jerry' date='Albert Dross,sorry Tross ain`t listening!.I know how good or not good my guitars are,as i`m sure you do yours,i also happen to think that both you and Uncle Al are amongst the most knowledgable people on this forum,but when this knowledge collides,particularly when two have a different take on things,we all need to run for cover!.As for me i can hand on heart say that Uncle Al hasn`t taught me anyhing about Epiphone history i didn`t already know,even Walter Carter could do with getting some facts right!(those 82 archtops were Terada were they!,see page 80 of Epiphone the complete history).I`ll keep playing and gigging my Matsumoku guitars,safe in the knowledge,the electricals,are good,the construction solid,and the sound quite good(but don`t tell Al,he thinks,they all fell apart,a long time ago),unlike that useless L6s i had!!. [/quote']

 

No worries, mon ami.

 

To me, a guitar is only as good as you think it is. And it's a right away thing, you pick it up and bang, that's it. It just feels right in you hands. Now someone else might pick it up and disagree. Neither one is right or wrong.

 

I happen to agree with you about the Matsumokus, there's something about them that just feels right. The P-90s on the Casino sound great, the Sherry humbuckers were weak IMO so I replaced them, the Emperor is perfect. The Emperor is far better than my Trini Lopez Deluxe, but that's just my opinion. I don't think the Caiola Custom is that good, but the Caiola Standard is terrific.

 

I've always liked Guilds, but I couldn't find a modern (late 90s) bluesbird that felt right, there was something about the neck that felt awkward to me. I bought 3 of them, just didn't like them. I now have two Guild/Fender/Squier M-77 bluesbirds that I like a lot. I did upgrade pickups and hardware, and now there among my favorite players.

 

My pawn shop collection consists of all kinds of guitars, old, new, cheap, expensive, foreign, domestic. And there is a reason why I have what I have, I like them. And that's all that matters.

 

Take care, buddy

[Guest]

 

You're paranoid. I never said you were making it up' date=' I asked if you would post a picture because I wanted to see what a Terada Casino looked like. You don't see many of them, I was curious to compare it to my Matsumoku and my old Elite.

 

There are numerous occasions when someone writes about their guitar and I'll ask them to post a picture. My God!!!

 

CheesyMac[/quote']

I apologize for the Cheesy Mac comment. It was childish and uncalled for and I'm waiting for the camera batteries to recharge and at that point I will take a photo (and will not guarantee the quality as I am not a photographer) and post it here. I have no reason to say I own anything that I don't. You're right about the paranoia though. I was once threatened with being sued and prosecuted for fraud because stupid photos (taken from my web site) used in the fraud had my business tagged to them. It was enough for me to stop my internet business altogether It's a touchy issue with me.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[Vic Flick]

I apologize for the Cheesy Mac comment. It was childish and uncalled for and I'm waiting for the camera batteries to recharge and at that point I will take a photo (and will not guarantee the quality as I am not a photographer) and post it here. I have no reason to say I own anything that I don't. You're right about the paranoia though. I was once threatened with being sued and prosecuted for fraud once because stupid photos used in the fraud had my business tagged to them. It was enough for me to stop my internet business altogether It's a touchy issue with me.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

 

 

No need, please don't put yourself out on my account. There was never any doubt in my mind you had one, you've often talked about it, I just wanted to see a photo. As you might surmise I love guitars, all kinds of guitars, and like to share them with others. Nothing more, nothing less.

[tulsaslim]

Boys, you're beating a dead horse. If the criteria for a 'high-end' guitar is the L-5, we're in the wrong place.

 

Anybody who is still ragging on the quality of Japanese guitars is probably still driving a Ford and *****ing about Toyotas. You're never gonna change those people.

 

Meanwhile, those of us who appreciate the quality of Japanese guitars are still free to mutually sing their praises even if we don't meet the standards of the 'America First' crowd.

 

Like you guys, I like my Japanese guitars and their 'crappy urethane finishes'. Hell, I've got 20-year-old guitars that still look brand new & that's ok with me. And I've changed the pickups on the one's that had 'crappy pickups' so I guess that's not an issue. I like 'em.

[Vic Flick]

Boys' date=' you're beating a dead horse. If the criteria for a 'high-end' guitar is the L-5, we're in the wrong place.

 

Anybody who is still ragging on the quality of Japanese guitars is probably still driving a Ford and *****ing about Toyotas. You're never gonna change those people.

 

Meanwhile, those of us who appreciate the quality of Japanese guitars are still free to mutually sing their praises even if we don't meet the standards of the 'America First' crowd.

 

Like you guys, I like my Japanese guitars and their 'crappy urethane finishes'. Hell, I've got 20-year-old guitars that still look brand new & that's ok with me. And I've changed the pickups on the one's that had 'crappy pickups' so I guess that's not an issue. I like 'em.[/quote']

 

 

Just for fun, I just checked my guitar list and here's how it breaks down:

 

Canada - 2

China - 4

Korea - 12

USA - 15

Japan - 21

 

I counted my Revolution Casino as Japan, and my 2 Godins as Canada.

 

Of the 15 USA Guitars, only 2 were made after 1973 (a Rickenbacker & a Jerry Jones baby sitar). 13 of the Japanese Guitars were made late '70 - mid '80s (7 Ibanez 6 Matsumoku). The remaining MIJs consist of 3 modern Epiphones, 1 Fender & 2 modern Gretsches. 2 1960s era Japanese which are the same models as my first two guitars. I do not own a Chinese Epiphone although I've had 3 or 4 pass through my hands.

 

This is just my opinion, but Gibson, Fender & Gretsch ruled the 50s & 60s. All 3 suffered under corporate ownership (Norlin, CBS & Baldwin). The best guitars late '60s / early '70s were Guilds who didn't seem to suffer under Avnet. In fact, they improved when they moved to Rhode Island. By the mid '70s, the Japanese started producing excellent quality instruments.

 

I'm old enough to remember when CBS took over, and within a year, everybody was hunting down pre-CBS Fenders. Within a couple of years, used Guitar store were selling 10 year old Fenders for twice the price of new ones. I remember We Buy Guitars across the street from Manny's. Within a few years, CBS nearly destroyed Fender & the New York Yankees!!!

 

Whether is was by design of just the aligning of the stars, the Japanese seemed to hit stride just as the quality of the big three American manufactures was declining. That's not to say one was better than the other, it's just that the playing field leveled. And you had major artists like Santana playing Yamaha, Elvin Bishop & Peter Frampton endorsing Electras, George Benson playing Ibanez. What's amazing is how fast the Japanese went from super poor quality to their Golden Age.

 

I've Pontificated enough, but that's my take.

[tulsaslim]

I think it's pretty clear that the Japanese can make a guitar as good as anybody in the world now. Gretsch's and high-grade Ibanezs aside, has anybody ever taken a look at Fuji-Gens own brand? I admit to not having played one, but checking out the specs and materials (and knowing from my elitists the kind of workmanship they're capable of), I would gladly shell out the $$ (equivalent to a high-end Gibson) for one if I could buy one here in the states.

 

You're right, Jerry. About the time of the of the Orvilles and Tokai Love Rocks the Japanese had certainly hit their stride.

[Vic Flick]

I think it's pretty clear that the Japanese can make a guitar as good as anybody in the world now. Gretsch's and high-grade Ibanezs aside' date=' has anybody ever taken a look at Fuji-Gens own brand? I admit to not having played one, but checking out the specs and materials (and knowing from my elitists the kind of workmanship they're capable of), I would gladly shell out the $$ (equivalent to a high-end Gibson) for one if I could buy one here in the states.

 

You're right, Jerry. About the time of the of the Orvilles and Tokai Love Rocks the Japanese had certainly hit their stride.[/quote']

 

Yeah, Fuji Gen (and Terada) made a lot of the old Ibanez guitars. I have a link to their web site, but I have to brush up my Japanese. And I totally forgot about Tokai.