A dumb question about Pots

[dbirchett]

Several people have indicated that it is very difficult to get full sized pots into a Sheraton and to use good quality mini-pots instead (CTS or Alpha). My dumb question for the day (Ill probably have another one tomorrow) is what do you lose with a good quality mini-pot as opposed to a full-sized pot? Does size really matter if the quality is there?

[RotcanX]

The problem with that logic is the original assumption that it's hard to get full-sized pots into a Sheraton. Huh? You need to hang around with less morons.

[lpdeluxe]

The problem with that logic is the original assumption that it's hard to get full-sized pots into a Sheraton. Huh? You need to hang around with less morons.

 

That's interesting. I didn't previously categorize myself as a moron. Tell you what' date=' come by here and, if you can put a full size pot through the f-hole of my Sheraton, I'll...I'll...

 

...no need to finish, you can't do it without enlarging the hole, and that ain't allowed. Some Sheratons may have larger f-holes than mine; if so, a full-size pot would work.

 

And, of course, you meant "[i']fewer[/i] morons" not "less."

 

Back to the original question: there's no functional difference between the sizes.

[dbirchett]

The problem with that logic is the original assumption that it's hard to get full-sized pots into a Sheraton. Huh? You need to hang around with less morons.

 

Thanks for being helpful. The comments to that effect that I have seen have primarily come from this board and so far I have not been able to determine which forum members are the morons and which are the truly helpful ones. But thank you for your suggestion.

 

But back to my original question. Let me restate it. What advantage is there to using full sized pots as opposed to mini pots, assuming that both are of good quality? Epiphone now advertises that they use full sized pots, people seem to prefer them, if they can easily get them into their guitars without major modifications.

[TWANG]

yeah the only moronic thing so far is rotcraps nasty comment. but we're used to that.

I can't get full size pots through my sheris f holes with modification to the holes.. period.

 

 

I imagine the path the wiper travels, being shorter, smaller circumfrence, probably will wear out a bit sooner..

but then, I've never had one wear out that was of a good brand, so that's guesswork.

 

I cannot tell any difference in performance at all.

with fingers or ears..

cheap minis are a different matter.. they feel really sloppy. no tension in the turning at all.. and they don't last long..

also the ones I've measured are farther off in spec than Alpha CTS pots.

[carverman]

I imagine the path the wiper travels' date=' being shorter, smaller circumfrence, probably will wear out a bit sooner..

but then, I've never had one wear out that was of a good brand, so that's guesswork.

 

I cannot tell any difference in performance at all.

with fingers or ears..

cheap minis are a different matter.. they feel really sloppy. no tension in the turning at all.. and they don't last long..

also the ones I've measured are farther off in spec than Alpha CTS pots.

[/quote']

 

Twang;

I have found that most full size pots are a bit more rugged than the minis.

The les paul forum has a good discussion on the differences of various pots

over the years and their construction.

here's the link;

http://www.lespaulforum.com/pots/potents.html

 

I'm using the Alpha push-pulls which are mini pots for my tone controls and they

seem to be made well enough to be trouble free. I don't know how long they

will last vs the full size CTS pots, but if I have to replace one someday, so be it.

 

Speaking of pots, I need a 5 meg (linear or log) for my LR Baggs t-bridge (piezo)

tone control and I can't seem to find one anywhere.

Stew-Mac only sell pots up to 1 meg and that won't work as a tone control on the exsiting 5 meg pot that was

supplied with the t-bridge. LR Baggs won't reply to individuals by email.

Any ideas? or.. Can you find one for me?

[Biff]

Speaking of pots' date=' I need a 5 meg (linear or log) for my LR Baggs t-bridge (piezo)

tone control and I can't seem to find one anywhere.

[/quote']

 

I just saw linear 5M Alpha pots in stock in a tube amp parts shop here in Finland, so they must exist :)

Have faith.

[carverman]

 

I just saw linear 5M Alpha pots in stock in a tube amp parts shop here in Finland' date=' so they must exist :)

Have faith.

[/quote']

 

Thanks for the warm feeling Biff. Yes, they do exist and one was supplied with the

t-bridge, but that had to be used for a volume control for the t-bridge. Now I need

another one for a tone control with a .01 cap. Stew-Mac doesn't seem to sell

anything over 1 meg.

[shartom]

You might try Antique Audio in Tempe Arizona. They have a great catalogue that you can download. Contrary to the company name, they sell new stuff. like tubes, transformers caps and you name it. Also if you need parts for your 1920's crystal set, they've go them to

[carverman]

You might try Antique Audio in Tempe Arizona. They have a great catalogue that you can download. Contrary to the company name' date=' they sell new stuff. like tubes, transformers caps and you name it. Also if you need parts for your 1920's crystal set, they've go them to[/quote']

 

 

Thanks!

I finally found them under Antique Electronic Supply. A lot of neat vintage guitar and amp

parts. They do have a 5 meg pot, but it's a pc type with a knurled plastic shaft for

25 cents. While it could do in a pinch, I'm hoping a that proper metal shaft 5 meg

pot is available for long term reliabilty and knob mounting.

[Biff]

Found this link online.. Hope you'll find one :)

[RotcanX]

...no need to finish' date=' you can't do it without enlarging the hole.[/quote']

Hmmm... there must be some variance going on because the last Sheri I worked on had full-sized pots. They went in and out of the f-holes with no more difficulty than any of the other Epi thinlines I've worked on.

[RotcanX]

And' date=' of course, you meant "[i']fewer[/i] morons" not "less."

Technically, yes, that is quite correct and thank you for pointing it out.. however, according to dictionary.reference.com, in terms of modern usage, it's not quite so cut and dried:

 

"Even though less has been used before plural nouns (less words; less men) since the time of King Alfred, many modern usage guides say that only fewer can be used in such contexts. Less, they say, should modify singular mass nouns (less sugar; less money) and singular abstract nouns (less honesty; less love). It should modify plural nouns only when they suggest combination into a unit, group, or aggregation: less than $50 (a sum of money); less than three miles (a unit of distance). With plural nouns specifying individuals or readily distinguishable units, the guides say that fewer is the only proper choice: fewer words; fewer men; no fewer than 31 of the 50 states.

Modern standard English practice does not reflect this distinction. When followed by than, less occurs at least as often as fewer in modifying plural nouns that are not units or groups, and the use of less in this construction is increasing in all varieties of English: less than eight million people; no less than 31 of the 50 states. When not followed by than, fewer is more frequent only in formal written English, and in this construction also the use of less is increasing: This year we have had less crimes, less accidents, and less fires than in any of the last five years."

[shartom]

Getting back to the topic, I was able to drop a standard size pot into the f hole on my Joe Pass with both the washer and nut on the pot shaft. No twisting or any other gyrations.

The same pot would not under the same circumstances drop into the f hole on my Sheraton. I removed the nut and washer and was able to drop it through the f hole. The pot had to go in on an angle but it did go in without any binding on the sides. My Sheraton is an early 97 model. It has full size pots inside.

In Dan Earlwine's book on guitar repairs, he mentions tha the pickup installer guys at Gibson keep bottles of touchup paint at their benches to touch up the edge og the f holes.

Had they started out installing removeable plates as used on the Les Pauls, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Gretsch did it on the 6120. They then covered it with a big pad.

Anyway, that is my two cents, 2.03 US.

[carverman]

Getting back to the topic' date=' I was able to drop a standard size pot into the f hole on my Joe Pass with both the washer and nut on the pot shaft. Had they started out installing removeable plates as used on the Les Pauls, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Gretsch did it on the 6120. They then covered it with a big pad.

[/quote']

 

Pretty much most of the Gibson archtops (Epi line included) have the large f-holes so

that any pot will fit into it. This is a moot point, because most of the wiring is fished

through the p_up holes. The thinline models have smaller f-hole cutouts and getting

full size pots through them is difficult. Gibson never (AFAIK), subscribed to cutting out

access holes on the back of their archtops..yuk!!... because that could ruin the sound to some

degree, with an arched plate on the back, not to mention the beauty of the woodgrain that

would be disturbed with large plates the size of the LP access plate(s).

 

This changed when they started producing solid bodies. Gr*tsch on the OTH, was more

"went the other way" with their painted f-holes on some models, the control setup and other

player comforts, like the padding in certain areas.

[carverman]

Found online.. Hope you'll find one :)

 

Thanks Biff. It never ceases to amaze me of the knowledge and resourcefulness that

this forum has. That's just what I need,the price is right, and they will sell only one.

I'll have them ship to my daughter in KS and she can bring it over.

 

However, a variable resistor and a cap is always better because I'm not sure of a good tone setting yet and the

Piezo really amplifies string "swishes" when you change chords up and down the

neck and don't completely take your fingers off the bass strings.

 

EDIT: Two 5 meg Alpha Pots (one for a spare) ordered along with a sample of

different cap values .01. 015, .022, .027, .033, 039 and .047.

I don't really have any experience with piezo style pickups and

not sure which value or values will work out best. .01 is a F*nder tone cap, .022 and .047 are

G*bson standard tone caps. The other 4 values are for experimenting on a breadboard,

since caps are cheap and I'm looking for the best tone or possible two caps on a

mini toggle switch.

The online support for the suppliers of the t-bridge were not much help in this case.

 

Thanks again, Biff for finding the Mouser web site for pots and stuff.

[frpax]

The problem with that logic is the original assumption that it's hard to get full-sized pots into a Sheraton. Huh? You need to hang around with less morons.

My older Sheraton would not take full sized pots NO MATTER WHAT I tried. I had to use mini's. And I don't *think* I'm a moron... And dbirchett hangs around me plenty! :D/

 

There was no way they'd fit through the f-hole, and my Sheraton does not have any "pass through" between the body and the neck pickup rout.

 

Quite honestly, changing the pots on my Sherry was the most frustrating repair I'd EVER done. I'll not do it again. It'll go to a shop!

[shartom]

If the mini's work, who cares. My bargain basement LP Special which was my first Epi and is a good guitar, has mini's, and plays just fine.

I would be more concerned with the switch. I had the plastic knob break on my Joe Pass. The thread is not standard so I had to improvise. The switch on my Special is also getting noisey and will be replaced down the road.

I think a lot of folks are totally rewiring their guitars when there really is no reason to do so. I think it is more the thing, "Everyone is doing it so it must be the thing to do." Not me. I have been an electronic engineer for thirty years, and have run my own amp/guitar service shop. Pots and wire do not change the sound of your guitar enough to pull the whole mess out and replace it. Pickups are another thing, They all have their own flavour and must tasted carefully