cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi..this is my first post in this forum! I just bought this beautiful Epiphone Sheraton and I've been having lots of trouble trying to date it, the serial numer is 80100497(no prefix). At first I thought it was an early Korean model...beause of the "Epiphone by Gibson" logo...but the serial number makes me think it was made in 1980 and the tuners have "Made in Japan" engraved on them. The most weird thing of all, is something that I discovered by accident. On the back of the headstock barely readable...it says "Made in USA". Here you have some pics....that might help...I tried to potograph the "made in USA" part but it was really hard... Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 The guitar dater project spit out: Your guitar was made in Korea October c.1980 Production Number: 0497 but it sometimes justs says "something" when it has a serial number that it can't read. I know that there was a brief run of Sheratons in Kalamazoo around that date. I'll have to check wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Is bit rare isn't it? when I think about 1980....I assume its a japanese one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Is bit rare isn't it? when I think about 1980....I assume its a japanese one. I've never seen a serial number taped to the head. Either they have been inside the f-hole or stamped into the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 I have seen a couple...here you have another one...but with a serial number indicating 1988 http://www.robwesley.com/guitars/listings/Epiphone%20Sheraton%20by%20Gibson%20Vintage%20Sunburst%201988/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennW Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Something's fishy. There appears to be remnants of longhand writing between the SN sticker and the top of the headstock...looks like the last two letters of the top word are "de" (Made?), and it looks like that area has been sanded to erase something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Something's fishy. There appears to be remnants of longhand writing between the SN sticker and the top of the headstock...looks like the last two letters of the top word are "de" (Made?)' date=' and it looks like that area has been sanded to erase something.[/quote'] Yeah that's what i said....it looks like Made in USA...but its erased...it was really hard for me to photograph...'cause its really subtle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I have always considered the Sheraton to be the flagship of the modern (Gibson era) Epiphone line, but I am constantly frustrated in my attempts to assemble information on its history. The one book that covers this period costs a fortune used ($100 - $300). I may just end up scouring the Internet for snippets. So many guitar history books are photographic coffee table books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I really like the creme pickup rings and switch knob. Looks much better than the black items on the current ones. In fact I changed the parts to creme on my '95. And, I must say, the pickguard is actually attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennW Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yeah that's what i said....it looks like Made in USA...but its erased...it was really hard for me to photograph...'cause its really subtle... I missed that part in your first post. I was thinking Korea or Japan because it looks more like a "a" than a "A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi..this is my first post in this forum! I just bought this beautiful Epiphone Sheraton and I've been having lots of trouble trying to date it' date=' the serial numer is 80100497(no prefix). At first I thought it was an early Korean model...beause of the "Epiphone by Gibson" logo...but the serial number makes me think it was made in 1980 and the tuners have "Made in Japan" engraved on them. The most weird thing of all, is something that I discovered by accident. On the back of the headstock barely readable...it says "Made in USA". Here you have some pics....that might help...I tried to potograph the "made in USA" part but it was really hard... [img']http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee327/cymbaline87/DSC07062.jpg[/img] Thanks a lot! Made in Korea by Samick January of 1988. There were NO USA-made Sheratons of any description made between 1970 and 1993 and NONE since. The "made in the USA" is a cute little after- touch that I'm certain someone found humorous but is a complete fraud. Japanese-made Sheratons have a completely different headstock logo. It's an early Korean-made Sheraton. The serial number label is a bit funny (could even have been from a different guitar) and there's some after-market playtime done to it but there's absolutely no doubt that the guitar was made in Korea between 1986 and 1988 by Samick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Made in Korea by Samick January of 1988. There were NO USA-made Sheratons of any description made between 1970 and 1993 and NONE since. The "made in the USA" is a cute little after- touch that I'm certain someone found humorous but is a complete fraud. Japanese-made Sheratons have a completely different headstock logo. It's an early Korean-made Sheraton. The serial number label is a bit funny (could even have been from a different guitar) and there's some after-market playtime done to it but there's absolutely no doubt that the guitar was made in Korea between 1986 and 1988 by Samick. Why do say that "The serial number label is a bit funny"?. About the after market stuff....the bridge and the "treble-rhythm"plate are the only parts that were changed/added. .....the rest is original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi..this is my first post in this forum! I just bought this beautiful Epiphone Sheraton and I've been having lots of trouble trying to date it' date=' the serial numer is 80100497(no prefix). At first I thought it was an early Korean model...beause of the "Epiphone by Gibson" logo...but the serial number makes me think it was made in 1980 and the tuners have "Made in Japan" engraved on them. The most weird thing of all, is something that I discovered by accident. On the back of the headstock barely readable...it says "Made in USA". Here you have some pics....that might help...I tried to potograph the "made in USA" part but it was really hard... [/quote'] Al is correct as usual, Made in Korea by Samick 1986 - 1988. The giveaway is the by Gibson on the headstock plus the serial # on a sticker. Those serial #s were random, they don't indicate anything. The by Gibson appeared on the first Korean Sherrys, they stopped in 1988 (maybe early 1989). The random serial #s on a sticker continued until the early '90s when Epi began using the current system that indicates factory & date. This guitar has had a few modifications. Sherry's didn't come with a TP-6 tailpiece, the bridge is wrong, Rhythm / Treble switch plate, pickup surrounds should be black... Probably tuners as well, keystone knobs are not the norm on these guitars. Just a few observation, it can't be made in 1980 and be Korean, '86 was the first year of production. The guitar dater is a valuable tools, but it helps if you know the history. USA made Epis would never have a serial # on a sticker, nor would they have Japanese tuners. The 80s MIJ Sheratons had serial #s engraved and painted on the back of the headstock. The early MIK Sherrys are really nice, I've had a few of them including a by Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yeah, Iconoclast. I was sure that I saw something about some Epis being made in Kalamazoo after the end of the 60's, but a comprehensive Internet search turned up absolutely nothing to support that. Musta been in a dream. I DID find a bazillion Epiphone Sheratons for sale on a bazillion different Craigslists, so apparently others are less inclined than I am to keep theirs. I also discovered that, no matter where in the world you try to buy "The Complete History of Epiphone", it is going to cost between $100 and $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Al is correct as usual' date=' Made in Korea by Samick 1986 - 1988. The giveaway is the [i']by Gibson[/i] on the headstock plus the serial # on a sticker. Those serial #s were random, they don't indicate anything. The by Gibson appeared on the first Korean Sherrys, they stopped in 1988 (maybe early 1989). The random serial #s on a sticker continued until the early '90s when Epi began using the current system that indicates factory & date. This guitar has had a few modifications. Sherry's didn't come with a TP-6 tailpiece, the bridge is wrong, Rhythm / Treble switch plate, pickup surrounds should be black... Probably tuners as well, keystone knobs are not the norm on these guitars. Just a few observation, it can't be made in 1980 and be Korean, '86 was the first year of production. The guitar dater is a valuable tools, but it helps if you know the history. USA made Epis would never have a serial # on a sticker, nor would they have Japanese tuners. The 80s MIJ Sheratons had serial #s engraved and painted on the back of the headstock. The early MIK Sherrys are really nice, I've had a few of them including a by Gibson. I am so glad that I don't have that headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbaline87 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Al is correct as usual' date=' Made in Korea by Samick 1986 - 1988. The giveaway is the [i']by Gibson[/i] on the headstock plus the serial # on a sticker. Those serial #s were random, they don't indicate anything. The by Gibson appeared on the first Korean Sherrys, they stopped in 1988 (maybe early 1989). The random serial #s on a sticker continued until the early '90s when Epi began using the current system that indicates factory & date. This guitar has had a few modifications. Sherry's didn't come with a TP-6 tailpiece, the bridge is wrong, Rhythm / Treble switch plate, pickup surrounds should be black... Probably tuners as well, keystone knobs are not the norm on these guitars. Just a few observation, it can't be made in 1980 and be Korean, '86 was the first year of production. The guitar dater is a valuable tools, but it helps if you know the history. USA made Epis would never have a serial # on a sticker, nor would they have Japanese tuners. The 80s MIJ Sheratons had serial #s engraved and painted on the back of the headstock. The early MIK Sherrys are really nice, I've had a few of them including a by Gibson. Thanks guys!! You've been really helpfull!! I knew the tp6 tailpiece and the plate weren't originals......I didn't know that about the pickup rings and knobs....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Wondering what mr. Smith doesn't like about the sherry headstock? Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Wondering what mr. Smith doesn't like about the sherry headstock? Stan. I like everything but the "by Gibson" they added to it. If they would just add "Patent Pending" in pearloid, it would be complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think he meant the fact that is says "By Gibson," instead of just the "Epiphone" logo by itself....that's my guess, anyway. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 LOL...we must have been writing that, at the same time, Jeff. You got yours posted, before I did... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yeah' date=' Iconoclast. I was sure that I saw something about some Epis being made in Kalamazoo after the end of the 60's, but a comprehensive Internet search turned up absolutely nothing to support that. Musta been in a dream. I DID find a bazillion Epiphone Sheratons for sale on a bazillion different Craigslists, so apparently others are less inclined than I am to keep theirs. I also discovered that, no matter where in the world you try to buy "The Complete History of Epiphone", it is going to cost between $100 and $400. [/quote'] Just for you Jeffery... A Brief History of The World and Epiphone Sheratons. Shortly after the introduction of the Gibson ES-335 in the spring of 1958 it was decided to market a more-upscale version of that guitar and it was decided to make it under the Epiphone brand name and to utilize the parts and components received in the Epiphone purchase. So they took an ES-335 and gave it extra binding and inlays as well as gold-plated parts and used the infamous "New York" single coils and the Epiphone Frequensator (or an optional Bigsby) rather than the stop tail piece used on the ES-335. While sales didn't go through the roof, the Sheraton did hold its own. In late 1958 Gibson added two other Gibson models to the thin line semi game, the ES-345 and the ES-355. The Sheraton fit right between these two models having a bit more bling than the ES-345, but not the Varitone of the ES-345 while the ES-355 had the bling factor of the Sheraton but the Sheraton didn't have the available stereo output Varitone of the ES-355. The Sheraton was originally available in either sunburst or natural. By 1961 the Pre-Gibson Epiphone parts supply was dwindling but because the model had proved popular. albeit on a small scale, the model was continued using a new Gibson pickup designed to fit the rout of the the Epiphone New York pickup, the PAF Mini Humbucker. The Sheraton was never a huge seller but was continued through the 1960's with a cherry red finish becoming available mid decade. The 1960's were a crucial time for American guitar makers and cost cutting measures and product line consolidation were the rule of the day. By 1970 the domestic Epiphone line had become an expensive redundancy and in August 1970 domestic Epiphone, including the Sheraton, production ceased. By 1971 the brand name re-appeared on a line of very cheaply-made, Japanese imports. These instruments were made by Matsumoku who also made Aria and Westone-branded instruments. These instruments were Epiphones in name only but the name itself proved to be a popular commodity on its own. At this point in time due to tariffs and importation taxation it was nearly impossible to market an American-made Gibson (or any other USA brand) guitar in Japan. There was undoubtedly a market for these products there so Gibson contracted with Matsumoku in about 1975 to create, manufacture and market a line of higher-end Epiphone-branded instruments. This line included a Sheraton model. While not clones or a continuation of the previous Kalamazoo-made Epiphones, these were pretty high quality instruments and proved very popular in Japan. While initially the marketing was limited to Japan by about 1979 this marketing was expanded to include Europe and the U.S. The Sheraton of this line had full-sized humbucker pickups and was first offered with only a stop tail piece which the Kalamazoo version never had. By the 80's there was also a Frequensator option but the pickups remained full-sized humbuckers. With production costs increasing, Epiphone acoustic guitar production was moved from Japan to Korea in 1983. In 1986 Gibson was sold to new owners who then ceased the Japanese Matsumoku production and began electric guitar production (By Samick) in Korea. For about a year there was simultaneous production in both Japan and Korea so Korean-made instruments from this period bear the "Epiphone By Gibson" brand to differentiate them fron the Japanese Epiphone products. This continued through 1988. The Korean-made Sheraton proved to be very popular and is still made today though I believe the majority of production is now in China. From 1987 until about 1998 there were Sheratons made by Terada for the Japanese market which are very high quality guitars but these again are quite rare outside of Japan. In 1993/1994 to celebrate 120 years of Epiphone and 100 years of Gibson, Gibson made very limited (250) USA-made runs in Nashville and Bozeman, Montana of some previous Epiphone models such as the Emperor, the Texan, the Excellente, the Riviera and of course, of the Sheraton. These were pretty high end guitars and are pretty rare but do show up from time to time. These were the last USA-made Epiphones. In the late 90's Epiphone did enter into an endorsement deal with the John Hooker estate and a limited number of John Lee Hooker Sheratons were made and marketed as "The USA Series" but these were actually made in Japan (by Terada) with final assembly taking place in the U.S. While this was to be a limited run of guitars, once the initial run production was attained production continued and these over-runs were sold through outlets such as Musician's Friend though without the references and endosement of John Lee Hooker. All in all the Hooker Sheratons are very nice guiitars with actual Gibson electronics and nitro-cellulose finishes. These are arguably the nicest Epiphone products since the Kalamazoo era. In about 2000 the Elite line of Epiphones was conceived and this new line had a Sheraton model. These being quite similar to the John Lee Hooker models though with polyurethane finishes and OEM level electronics (not polyester lacquer...I'll be glad to explain the difference between aliphatic urethane coatings (varnishes) and lacquers using polyester and acrylic resins another time but these puppies are polyurethane...a lacquer by definition uses acetone as its solvent..and it's the use of this solvent that sometimes precludes using natural (nitro-cellulose) or synthetic (polyester,acrylic binders) lacquers to say nothing of lacquers being more costly, labor-intensive, regulated and requiring longer set up times. The Sheraton continues today as a standard line and an Elitist line model. It can easily be seen as the flagship Epiphone electric model and in my opinion the standard Sheraton out of the box is maybe the best offering in an Epiphone electric guitar today in terms of quality versus price. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epinder Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yeah' date=' Iconoclast. I was sure that I saw something about some Epis being made in Kalamazoo after the end of the 60's, but a comprehensive Internet search turned up absolutely nothing to support that. Musta been in a dream. I DID find a bazillion Epiphone Sheratons for sale on a bazillion different Craigslists, so apparently others are less inclined than I am to keep theirs. I also discovered that, no matter where in the world you try to buy "The Complete History of Epiphone", it is going to cost between $100 and $400. [/quote'] I don't know about K-zoo, but they EPI had a limited run of Riviera's and Sheraton's (250) built in Nashville. The year was 1993. On 11-1-95 Epi moved into their own facility in Nashville for production starting with the casino. This info is from "The Complete History" by Walter Carter. So, they have made EPI's in the USA, just not the one in the photos here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epinder Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Guess I wasn't fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 LOL...we must have been writing that' date=' at the same time, Jeff. You got yours posted, before I did... CB[/quote'] Too much like "...by Mennon!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Just for you Jeffery... A Brief History of The World and Epiphone Sheratons. Shortly after the introduction of the Gibson ES-335 in the spring of 1958 it was decided to market a more-upscale version of that guitar and it was decided to make it under the Epiphone brand name and to utilize the parts and components received in the Epiphone purchase. So they took an ES-335 and gave it extra binding and inlays as well as gold-plated parts and used the infamous "New York" single coils and the Epiphone Frequensator (or an optional Bigsby) rather than the stop tail piece used on the ES-335. While sales didn't go through the roof' date=' the Sheraton did hold its own. In late 1958 Gibson added two other Gibson models to the thin line semi game, the ES-345 and the ES-355. The Sheraton fit right between these two models having a bit more bling than the ES-345, but not the Varitone of the ES-345 while the ES-355 had the bling factor of the Sheraton but not the Sheraton didn't have the available stereo output Varitone of the ES-355. The Sheraton was originally available in either sunburst or natural. By 1961 the Pre-Gibson Epiphone parts supply was dwindling but because the model had proved popular. albeit on a small scale, the model was continued using a new Gibson pickup designed to fit the rout of the the Epiphone New York pickup, the PAF Mini Humbucker. The Sheraton was never a huge seller but was continued through the 1960's with a cherry red finish becoming available mid decade. The 1960's were a crucial time for American guitar makers and cost cutting measures and product line consolidation were the rule of the day. By 1970 the domestic Epiphone line had become an expensive redundancy and in August 1970 domestic Epiphone, including the Sheraton, production ceased. By 1971 the brand name re-appeared on a line of very cheaply-made, Japanese imports. These instruments were made by Matsumoku who also made Aria and Westone-branded instruments. These instruments were Epiphones in name only but the name itself proved to be a popular commodity on its own. At this point in time due to tariffs and importation taxation it was nearly impossible to market an American-made Gibson (or any other USA brand) guitar in Japan. There was undoubtedly a market for these products there so Gibson contracted with Matsumoku in about 1975 to create, manufacture and market a line of higher-end Epiphone-branded instruments. This line included a Sheraton model. While not clones or a continuation of the previous Kalamazoo-made Epiphones, these were pretty high quality instruments and proved very popular in Japan. While initially the marketing was limited to Japan by about 1979 this marketing was expanded to include Europe and the U.S. The Sheraton of this line had full-sized humbucker pickups and was first offered with only a stop tail piece which the Kalamazoo version never had. By the 80's there was also a Frequensator option but the pickups remained full-sized humbuckers. With production costs increasing, Epiphone acoustic guitar production was moved from Japan to Korea in 1983. In 1986 Gibson was sold to new owners who then ceased the Japanese Matsumoku production and began electric guitar production (By Samick) in Korea. For about a year there was simultaneous production in both Japan and Korea so Korean-made instruments from this period bear the "Epiphone By Gibson" brand to differentiate them fron the Japanese Epiphone products. This continued through 1988. The Korean-made Sheraton proved to be very popular and is still made today though I believe the majority of production is now in China. From 1987 until about 1998 there were Sheratons made by Terada for the Japanese market which are very high quality guitars but these again are quite rare outside of Japan. In 1993/1994 to celebrate 120 years of Epiphone and 100 years of Gibson, Gibson made very limited (250) USA-made runs in Nashville and Bozeman, Montana of some previous Epiphone models such as the Emperor, the Texan, the Excellente, the Riviera and of course, of the Sheraton. These were pretty high end guitars and are pretty rare but do show up from time to time. These were the last USA-made Epiphones. In the late 90's Epiphone did enter into an endorsement deal with the John Hooker estate and a limited number of John Lee Hooker Sheratons were made and marketed as "The USA Series" but these were actually made in Japan (by Terada) with final assembly taking place in the U.S. While this was to be a limited run of guitars, once the initial run production was attained production continued and these over-runs were sold through outlets such as Musician's Friend though without the references and endosement of John Lee Hooker. All in all the Hooker Sheratons are very nice guiitars with actual Gibson electronics and nitro-cellulose finishes. These are arguably the nicest Epiphone products since the Kalamazoo era. In about 2000 the Elite line of Epiphones was conceived and this new line had a Sheraton model. These being quite similar to the John Lee Hooker models though with polyurethane finishes and OEM level electronics (not polyester lacquer...I'll be glad to explain the difference between aliphatic urethane coatings (varnishes) and lacquers using polyester and acrylic resins another time but these puppies are polyurethane...a lacquer by definition uses acetone as its solvent..and it's the use of this solvent that sometimes precludes using natural (nitro-cellulose) or synthetic (polyester,acrylic binders) lacquers to say nothing of lacquers being more costly, labor-intensive, regulated and requiring longer set up times. The Sheraton continues today as a standard line and an Elitist line model. It can easily be seen as the flagship Epiphone electric model and in my opinion the standard Sheraton out of the box is maybe the best offering in an Epiphone electric guitar today in terms of quality versus price. Hope that helps.[/quote'] You can be sure that I am cutting and pasting this into a text-based database, to serve as the initial seed for a growing database of Sheraton history. Thanks very much. I'm indebted enough to admit that Al's my uncle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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