alpine Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Custom Admin: Would it be possible to get some info on the position of the volute on the new AL ES-355? I'm wondering if there was any logic in its being placed so low on the neck--below the nut--whereas in the original 70's Gibsons (and in current Citations), they were above the nut, where it didn't interfere so much with your hand when playing on the first fret and where it made sense because it adds more wood behind the trussrod cavity. Was there any rhyme or reason to its weird placement on the AL? Maybe one of the luthiers who designed the guitar has an answer? Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 i passed your inquiry on the the engineering folks, but probably won't hear anything until next week, as we are all knee-deep in NAMM show and Summer Jam preparation and activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thank you, Admin. I appreciate your help. I'm just trying to understand this from a design point of view, whereas the original volute design that Gibson used in the 70's made plenty of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Alpine, The valute on the Lifeson makes no sense at all. The 70s Gibsons with the valute, although not favored by many did make sense from a structural standpoint. It helped reinforce the weak area of the headstock prone to breakage. Most players prefer no valute. That being said, if the Lifeson was not going to be accurate in design, I would have preferred no valute. The valute the way it is on the Lifeson has never before been done in the history of Gibson guitars (as far as I know) and it was obviously put there to make it "look" like his original. But function wise, it makes no sense. I don't think any guitar manuractuer throughout history has ever put a valute that far down the neck. It should actually be an embarassment to Gibson. Nevertheless, I still like the guitar, because it does look and play nice except for the valute getting in the way sometimes. Try playing an F maj 7 on the first fret. It does not feel right. Here is a picture of a 1976 ES 355 back of headstock and then a Lifeson back of headstock. (Be warned...it is a bit painful to see!) Looks to be about a 1" difference. Gibson, this is not just us guitarists being overly picky again. It is even beyond being historically inaccurate. It is just a poor design and will probably go down in history as such. Alex Lifeson is one of rock's greatest guitarists. We have all waited a long time for him to be honored with his signature 355. Gibson could have done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Exactly, Wondo. And I actually like the volute on the 70s Gibsons. That's why I was hoping to see if one of the Gibson engineers could provide an answer. Maybe there IS some design reason that we don't know about. If there isn't, the position of the volute is just plain stupid. Gibson has been making guitars for over 100 years; they should've known better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJLCC14 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Looks like whoever wrote the CNC program for the neck and headstock, missed the beginning of the valute ramp taper by EXACTLY 1.000" Now thats a SCREW-UP!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Ah man, that's a cryin' shame. I wonder if they will give an answer on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Any word yet Admin? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 no answers yet, but this topic is creating lots of internal discussion. hopefully i'll get some sort of feedback soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I wonder if the copy that Alex is using on tour has the volute in the wrong spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJLCC14 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I wonder if the copy that Alex is using on tour has the valute in the wrong spot. I got a feeling that Alex didn't receive one of these guitars......his is probably a real Custom SHop, attention to detail, copy of his original. We all know that the Custom shop is capable of such work........it's the production of 300 copies that they fail miserablely at!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I got a feeling that Alex didn't receive one of these guitars......his is probably a real Custom SHop' date=' attention to detail, copy of his original. We all know that the Custom shop is capable of such work........it's the production of 300 copies that they fail miserablely at!!!!![/quote'] I had that feeling too. Thats why I had to post that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I wonder if the copy that Alex is using on tour has the valute in the wrong spot. I am sure it does. It is the prototype after all. Here he is playing the prototype: And here he is playing the original: Forgive me, I just could not resist. If it were not so much money involved on our parts, I am sure it would be pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Thats just too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LerxstLee Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I have come to the point of understanding it is pointless to " fret " and worry about the small things . Being a musician I am ONE that is a perfectionist . I actually believe most if not all musicians are perfectionists . That probably explains why details matter to me any way . So my guitar is not perfect . The finish is not covered under warranty anyhow so my mysterious black dots growing in a few areas from underneath the clear laquer is " my problem " not the makers . The f- holes , ears , trem arm , bridge , and lack of attention to details I can live with , well I do not have a choice . Yet it is glaringly obvious to me that this volute is NOT correct as most agree . I do see in the " add " inspired by they claim " 3 piece maple neck with volute " , well since they did not say where it was I am sure they will make us live with that . I did read the post that makes one perfect point . " This volute actually makes the neck one inch shorter " . I agree . Yet maybe if they make another version with that volute fixed , we could trade ours in towards a new and correct instrument , they might give us $1500.00 in trade towards another corrected model . If you think Gibson is going to " make good " on all of our wacky volute you can stop thinking . Thats alot of wasted energy . Simply wait for another model and trade it in . Eat the loss , I really don't think in 20 years there willl be any one looking for an incorrect copy of a guitar that has stress fractures at best from a volute that was not copied from the guitar they copied . Say that in one breath :o . I am saddend and actually think I will trade mine in for one of the 355's historic and lose what I lose one this one . Then I will have a guitar that will hopefully be correct and playable along the WHOLE neck . AAAHH , I can feel it now . I just don't want to buy another gibson ever after this horrible experience . /cheer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Admin: Could we get an answer soon? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 i was off wednesday and thursday, and we are closed today for the 4th. if there's anything to report on Monday i will do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Thanks Admin. I just wanted to make sure we push this issue through and get an answer. I do hope that you enjoy the holiday and I am sure I speak for all of us here on the forum when I say that we do appreciate your concern and professionalism in regards to all of the discussions we bring forth to you. Happy Independence Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJLCC14 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The question was put to the engineers on June 19th! I'm beginning to see why if a problem is discovered, thats it's just left alone...........IT TAKES TO LONG TO GET SOMEONE ON IT! 3 weeks to answer a simple question!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The way to fix it is to recall all 300 guitars and redo the necks. There is no way gibson is going to do that. and you will be waiting months to get your babys back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LerxstLee Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 i passed your inquiry on the the engineering folks' date=' but probably won't hear anything until next week, as we are all knee-deep in NAMM show and Summer Jam preparation and activity.[/quote'] I see you were too busy to look into it on June 19th , it's July 7th , You are still to busy . The volute is making my thumb sore , maybe the " fix " could be simply just don't play open chords or near the first frett , then us picky players would be happy , They fixed it . /boggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I see you were too busy to look into it on June 19th ' date=' it's July 7th , You are still to busy . The volute is making my thumb sore , maybe the " fix " could be simply just don't play open chords or near the first frett , then us picky players would be happy , They fixed it . /boggle[/quote'] Hey LerxstLee, Don't expect to hear anything anytime soon. I am with you. No one expects Gibson to come up with how they would remedy the problem right now. All we initially asked for was why it was like this. If it is correct, then why is it correct.?If it is wrong, then we can decide how we should proceed. As far as if it is wrong....start your timer. Ready (I'm going to look at the back of the headstock now) 1,2,3...yep, it's wrong. See, that didn't take so long did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJLCC14 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Sorry Wondo.....but with a reaction time like yours......I don't think Gibson will ever offer you a job!!! They're more into to Lolligaggin....than Lightning!!!! Try back when your 75 or older.....maybe by then you'll have slowed down to the Gibson pace!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJLCC14 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 i was off wednesday and thursday' date=' and we are closed today for the 4th. if there's anything to report on Monday i will do so.[/quote'] Check.....Check.......Testing.....Testing......test.......test.......one, two, three.......check, .......check............"Hey is this thing on?" Hello........test........testing one ....two.....three! Come in Major Tom................can you read me.............test.......test........check, check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 PJLCC14, I think we may be S.O.L. on this one. They may be hoping if they stay quiet long enough we will just all go home and forget about it. I had mine worked on yesterday. It played very well out of the box, but my luthier said it needed some work. In order to get it to play to my specs, he needed to raise the nut, which means removing the nut, raising it and then recarving it as well as dressing the frets out. Yes, you heard me right, dressing the frets out. He says that the plek machines are great and do a much better job than Gibson had done in the past, but they are still not accurate 100%. He said that the problem with plek machines is that they do not always take into account the minor imperfections in the wood that were done by hand. I can tell the difference. Holy Crap! This thing plays like a dream now. The action is sickly low with no buzz and still able to bend very nicely. The only problem with this repair is you can see that the nut was removed. He did a good job of filling it in and putting clear coat on it to protect the wood, but with a white guitar any little flaw shows. Usually this kind of repair would have been a piece of cake, but, are you ready for this...someone at the CS glued the nut in and so in order for him to get it out he had to cut through the glue. My two R0s had the same thing done and the repair does not show because the nut just popped right out and when he put it back in again, no problem. I(My 356 on the other hand had the same deal..glued in nut). It is really minor, but you can tell the nut was re-worked if you look at it closely. That is the price you pay to have it play this well. I can do the lead runs in La Villa Strangiato like butter now. Anyone thinking of getting theirs professionally done, I say it is worth every penny. That is if you have a really good luthier that knows how to make this thing play like nobody's business. For me, I say screw the volute at this point. I can live with it. I still say shame on the Custom Shop for having ever released this guitar in this way. I guess the CS does not care that I own two R0s, a Les Paul Custom PF, a 356 and now the Lifeson and hoping to get an Axcess soon. But, this expereince has me doubting just how good CS guitars will be from here on out, and I think that this will be the end of me purchasing Gibsons. They had their day. But that day is long gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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