datazar_1 Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 First time poster. Can anyone help me identify the Emperor guitar that I am using as my Avatar? I've been searching e-bay for years and haven't seen one like it. Some of the featrues are: Square tag in f-hole "Emperor Division of Gibson, Kalamazoo....." (not Joe Pass, not Regent) Semi-hollow, thinline body. 7-ply binding on body, 5-ply on neck. Inlayed vine and square fret board markers. 2 Humbuckers. Three piece neck. Frequensator tail piece. No markings on truss rod cover. SN 11127## (painted, under laquer) It looks exactly like this one (claimed to be a '67 Emperor). 1967 Epiphone Emperor? I've had people tell me the following, "it's probably a 1967", "it was probably built in Japan in the 1970's and assembled in Kalamazoo", "it's a 1990's and made in Korea". I bought it on e-bay years ago, t muddy things up more, it came in a 1960's era Gibson Byrdland case. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Close up, detail photos would help. Could be a 1983 or so, (Matsumoku, Japan) Epi Emperor! There's one that looks quite like it, on www.pitschmidt.de/gitarren-fotos-website/foto_broadwayJPG His has differnt pickups, but he mentions that he had changed them, so...??? Anyway...it looks to be an '80's Japanese Epi. Hope that's of some help? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datazar_1 Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 Thanks Charlie! That one is very close. The knobs are different and mine has a fixed bridge. That one appears to be a floating bridge which means it may not be a semi-hollow body. I can post pics but, couldn't figure out how when writing my first post. Can you give me some tips on posting pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Well, I use Photobucket, and then just cut and paste, from there. Other's may have other (better) ways? I generally just do line items, and let the interested viewers click on the line/link, to see photo, rather than cluttering up the thread. I love to look at the photos, of course, but when you're trying to add something...comments, info, etc., it can get a bit daunting, wading through all the posted photos. With the lines/links, you don't have that to contend with. But, that's just me! Is you Epi an "Emperor," for sure...or could it be a "Broadway?" Almost sounds more like a Broadway...and there are some photos, if you Google (images) "Epiphone Broadway" that look very similar! BUT, if it's Thinner than the Broadway, it's sounds more like an Epi Version of a "Byrdland!" Yet, it's not an Elitist. So...??? How thick is the body? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Datazar...found another one, that looks more like yours, that the seller claims is a 1967 (Made in USA, Kalamazoo) version. Same color burst, floating bridge, 2 humbuckers, master volume, etc. Can't tell the thickness of the body, by his photo, but it's a closer match, than the previous one, I showed you. So, unless you KNOW it's Asian, there's a better than good chance it IS "American!" Looks like the one you linked to, only it's a different seller. So, I'd say you have 2 indications, that it's a real USA version. This is good! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 That's definitely an 80's thinline Emperor built in Japan by Matsumoku. The 60's American Emperors were shaped differently, plus that dark sunburst finish was a Matsumoku thing. They made two versions in that L-5 shape, a full-depth one that was similar to the modern Broadway (some had an L-5 style tailpiece instead of the Frequensator), and the thinline version like yours. VERY nice guitars, both of 'em. Jerrymac has one up for sale on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Well, that's quite possible, as we were headed that direction, originally, here. Script Logo? The '67's seemed to have that, as well. And, the last '67 USA I was referring to, has the darker burst, as well. But, Parabar could very well be right! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 It's hard to tell from the small photo, but Epiphone had a 3 p_up Emperor as early as '55, but the knob positions were not the same as what we perceive as "Gibson 4 control grouping" around the lower f-hole. They were also predominately available in natural (or sunburst) as the 18.5 inch Emperor was Epiphone's competition to the Gibson Super 400. http://www.provide.net/~cfh/epiphon2.html#emperor The 66 version (Gibson made) seems to be relatively unchanged, (see the 66 Epiphone catalog on this site) www.vintageguitars When Gibson bought out Epiphone (around '57), production was moved to Kalamazoo, and the 1963 Epiphone/Gibson catalog shows a 3 P-up version with the vine headstock inlay, MOP/Abalone V block inlays, "e" logo on the pickguard, frequensator and 3 Gibson humbuckers, but the control grouping was on one side of the lower f-hole, not stradling the f-hole Gibson style in '63. Top and back were seven ply binding and the fb/f-holes and headstock was bound in wht/blk/wht. Neck was 4 pieces of curly maple, divided by 3 strips of mahogany and used the traditional Gibson truss rod (under the trc) witha 5/16" brass nut. Tuners were Grover Imperial. By '65, due to Gibson's expansions, quite a bit of the Epihone production was moved to the Eleanor st. location and a custom shop was set up there..for some models. The labels would have been square blue in colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 For comparison's sake, here's a pic of a US-made '62 Emperor. Note the 3 mini-humbuckers, and the distinctive shapes of the body and cutaway. In the late 60's when Epiphone outsourced production to Matsumoku (with the el-cheapo line), the Emperor was discontinued. When it reappeared circa 1980 it had the L-5 body shape and pickup/control array. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 First time poster. Can anyone help me identify the Emperor guitar that I am using as my Avatar? I've been searching e-bay for years and haven't seen one like it. Some of the featrues are: Square tag in f-hole "Emperor Division of Gibson' date=' Kalamazoo....." (not Joe Pass, not Regent) Semi-hollow, thinline body. 7-ply binding on body, 5-ply on neck. Inlayed vine and square fret board markers. 2 Humbuckers. Three piece neck. Frequensator tail piece. No markings on truss rod cover. SN 11127## (painted, under laquer) It looks exactly like this one (claimed to be a '67 Emperor). 1967 Epiphone Emperor? I've had people tell me the following, "it's probably a 1967", "it was probably built in Japan in the 1970's and assembled in Kalamazoo", "it's a 1990's and made in Korea". I bought it on e-bay years ago, t muddy things up more, it came in a 1960's era Gibson Byrdland case. Thanks! Your Emperor and the one in the photo that's a "1967" are both Matsumoku-made (Japan) Epiphones from the early 80's (yours dates to December of 1981) Parabar is absolutely correct. The Gibson-made Emperor of 1967 doesn't even remotely resemble the Asian (past and present) Emperor in body shape, pickups or anything else...someone needs to contact Classic Ax and tell them they're full of ****...another thing...I know it seems to be a compulsion with some people to respond to every post but if you really don't know what the hell you're talking about why bother posting anything at all in the way of an answer that only further confuses the issue? If you really need you must post something why not start a survey about something? One guy without a clue posts to be helpful and the next thing you know there's five more clue-less posts speculating about that which they do not know and making the truth lost in a sea of mud....oh, and by the way...nice guitar, Datazar. This is what a Stahopoulo-made (1952) Emperor Zephyr Regent looks like: This is what a Gibson (1959)-made Emperor Zephyr Regent looks like: Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Point taken...Nelson. No need to be diplomatic, though... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Point taken...Nelson. No need to be diplomatic' date=' though... CB[/quote'] I didn't mean to be offensive and it certainly isn't just about you Charlie. You initial post was very close to the facts but sometimes as we try to convey more information we exceed the limitations of our knowledge and when someone is seeking factual answers, it's not the time for improvisation. No harm, no foul. The guitar is a Matsumoku-made Emperor from 1981 and the idiots at Classic Axe are still idiots...it's one thing to maybe go out on a limb in a guitar forum (been there many times myself) but when you claim to be a "vintage guitar dealer" and you don't even know what you're selling it's maybe time to change businesses..or run for vice president or something.. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I didn't mean to be offensive and it certainly isn't just about you Charlie. You initial post was very close to the facts but sometimes as we try to convey more information we exceed the limitations of our knowledge and when someone is seeking factual answers' date=' it's not the time for improvisation. No harm, no foul. The guitar is a Matsumoku-made Emperor from 1981 and the idiots at Classic Axe are still idiots...it's one thing to maybe go out on a limb in a guitar forum (been there many times myself) but when you claim to be a "vintage guitar dealer" and you don't even know what you're selling it's maybe time to change businesses..or run for vice president or something.. Nelson[/quote'] True...and, no offense taken, truly. My enthusiasm does run amuck, now and again. LOL! I guess, where I went wrong, this time...was seeking information from the net, beyond what I had mentioned, initially...which can be a mineflield, to begin with as it's full of mis-information, as well. So, trying to be helpful, can be just the opposite, at times. But, it's not all bad...I learned a thing or two, on this post, even if it was bassackwards. ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 True...and' date=' no offense taken, truly. My enthusiasm does run amuck, now and again. LOL! I guess, where I went wrong, this time...was seeking information from the net, beyond what I had mentioned, initially...which can be a mineflield, to begin with as it's full of mis-information, as well. So, trying to be helpful, can be just the opposite, at times. But, it's not all bad...I learned a thing or two, on this post, even if it was bassackwards. ;>) CB[/quote'] What makes me crazy is when people quote Wiki-Pedia as if it's the Oracle At Delphi...I've long said that anyone can be a guitar expert by owning six books so this isn't rocket science but the Internets is full of "Classic Axes" and worse...E Bay..where in their zeal to sell their crap they present a lot of dicey information about the guitar as factual...people read that **** and think..."well, they're a vintage guitar dealer...they must know what they're talking about"... Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Yeah, I understand. Do You have any recommendations, as to factual/accurate information sites, we could trust, and count on, not just for Epiphone, but any guitar brands/information? Somewhere, we "novice-to just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous" folks can go, without bothering the likes of George Gruhn, or his ilk. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 For comparison's sake' date=' here's a pic of a US-made '62 Emperor. Note the 3 mini-humbuckers, and the distinctive shapes of the body and cutaway. In the late 60's when Epiphone outsourced production to Matsumoku (with the el-cheapo line), the Emperor was discontinued. When it reappeared circa 1980 it had the L-5 body shape and pickup/control array.[/quote'] Good pic, Parabar. I see that the control grouping is above the f-hole as per the original Epi design. The Emperor also had a more sculpted (slimmer)venetian cutaway than the L5. I find a placement of a Bigsby on this quality of instrument a bit "overboard". Epiphone had a beautiful cast tp one their Triumph, Deluxe, Broadway and Emperor acoustic archtops in the late 30s, similar to the Super 400 tp . Not sure why Gibson didn't continue with this design as it is more elegant than the frequensator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 ...or run for vice president or something.. Nelson What does Ms Palin know about guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 "as if it's the Oracle At Delphi" classic...in the documentary and academic word, wikipedia is not considered a legitimate source...use it for a starting point only and double-check all information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Yeah' date=' I understand. Do [i']You[/i] have any recommendations, as to factual/accurate information sites, we could trust, and count on, not just for Epiphone, but any guitar brands/information? Somewhere, we "novice-to just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous" folks can go, without bothering the likes of George Gruhn, or his ilk. CB Well, to start out with the six books I mentioned are: 1. "American Guitars"- Tom Wheeler 2. "The Les Paul Book"- Tony Bacon and Paul Day 3. "The Fender Book" - Tony Bacon and Paul Day 4. "The Ultimate Guitar Book"- Tony Bacon(Obviously anything by Bacon is going to be a great resource- "Totally Guitar" is a Bacon coffee table book that is a fantastic resource) 5. "Gibson Guitars-100 Years Of An American Icon"-Walter Carter 6. "Guitar Player's Repair Guide" -Dan Erlewine and there are a lot of other books out there such as Julius Bellson's "The Gibson Story" which is more a memoir than a reference source but still an interesting read and the various "coffee table" books by George and Walt and Walt's Epiphone book... though I once questioned Carter about some inaccuracies in the book and he said "only you would be that knit-picky" and it was some major date errors about the Gibson era Epiphones...and I don't know this guy and he doesn't know me so why he'd say "only you" I never sorted out. (I think I had irritated Gruhn and he told Carter what a pain in the *** I was so Carter just assumed I was all that lol) I did used to pick George Gruhn's brain when I'd see him at guitar shows and he can be a bit full of himself and I don't think he's especially fond of me (go figger..nice chappie like meself)..once he needed a ride to the airport after a show and I offered and he at first refused until they announced his need over the public address system and no one else offered lol...I didn't get any extraordinary insights during the ride but I like George even though he can be a bit Ed Roman at times...but the guy does know his stuff..no question at all about that and so does Walt Carter but Walt isn't as quick to engage in witty repartee as George...Ed Roman...hmmm.. Love him or hate him he does make some interesting, thought-provoking points. I've never met him in person but I have spoke on the phone with him a few times. He does lean his arguments towards what he sells but as I said, he makes some interesting points..If Martin guitars are your thing there was a guy named Mike Longworth (he died a few years back) who wrote about both Gibson and Martin but his Martin knowledge is legendary (He worked for thirty years at Martin and was the guy who brought back the D-45 and designed the D-41) and he was co-author with **** Boak and Richard Johnston of "Martin Guitars-A History" and "Martin Guitars-A Technical Reference" the bibles for Martin owners. A.R. Duchossoir and his Startocaster and Telecaster books are the go to source for information about those guitars and he also wrote "Gibson Electrics-The Classic Years". I could go on and on...there's lots of informed sources out there and there's the forums but you need to have some basics behinds you to recognize who knows their **** and who's winging it. I fully and freely credit a Japanese gentleman named Tad Miura for much of what I know about the Japanese era Epiphones. Tad was a regular years ago on the original Epiphone forum and was a wealth of information. There were a lot of people on the original forum who knew their stuff and there's still a lot of very informed people on the Gibson forum. As i said though, you have to know a little to be able to suss whether someone truly know what they're talking about...I think I fall into that "know enough to be dangerous" niche...or at the very least.. "know enough to be annoying" lol. and of course there's this vintage guitar site : http://www.provide.net/~cfh/index.html There's a few errors there I've come across there but you won't find so much valid information about so many different guitars as you'll find there. Wikipedia and the guitar blog sites are at your risk and peril and should always be consumed with a grain of salt. Good luck in your quest for guitar knowledge. It's a quest that never ends. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Thanks, Nelson...I appreciate the info, and insights. Guitar knowledge (or any other) is an ongoing quest, and always full of tricky turns, back steps, and enlightenment, too. But, it's always interesting. I've often learned more from my missteps, than from what I get right. Not too unusual, I think... Thanks, again... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 wow....one guy with 6 books just stamped out freedom of speech AND power of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well' date=' to start out with the six books I mentioned are: 1. "American Guitars"- Tom Wheeler 2. "The Les Paul Book"- Tony Bacon and Paul Day 3. "The Fender Book" - Tony Bacon and Paul Day 4. "The Ultimate Guitar Book"- Tony Bacon(Obviously anything by Bacon is going to be a great resource- "Totally Guitar" is a Bacon coffee table book that is a fantastic resource) 5. "Gibson Guitars-100 Years Of An American Icon"-Walter Carter 6. "Guitar Player's Repair Guide" -Dan Erlewine Nelson[/quote'] What about "Gibson Guitars-Ted McCarty's Golden Era 1948-66" by Gil Hembree? or "Epiphone -The House of Stathopolo" by Jim Fisch/L.B. Fred and for Les Paul lovers.. "The Early Years of the Les Paul Legacy (1915-1963)" by Robb Lawrence even though you make not like..ahem.. "Rhubarb Red", and the first 50 pages are mostly about him, the rest of the 239 pages deal with the development of the LP and some interesting trivia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 wow....one guy with 6 books just stamped out freedom of speech AND power of speculation. When you have a question you want answered do you want to hear someone's speculation through their exercise of free speech or do you want to hear the actual answer? Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 What about "Gibson Guitars-Ted McCarty's Golden Era 1948-66" by Gil Hembree? or "Epiphone -The House of Stathopolo" by Jim Fisch/L.B. Fred and for Les Paul lovers.. "The Early Years of the Les Paul Legacy (1915-1963)" by Robb Lawrence even though you make not like..ahem.. "Rhubarb Red"' date=' and the first 50 pages are mostly about him, the rest of the 239 pages deal with the development of the LP and some interesting trivia. [/quote'] The McCarty book is good I've heard. Ted McCarty was my guitar hero and the true genius behind the design of so many great Gibson guitars and innovations. I just don't happen to have a copy so I kept this to books I've read and owned. Same with House Of Stathopoulo. My problem with books about Les Paul is that Les Paul is usually too involved in the writing of the books for there to be any factual information about the events discussed but rather they turn into Paul's "recollections" which quite often turn out to be quite inaccurate. I imagine once he's dead there'll be factual books about him. Until then readers can continue to hear about all the great things he invented though so far I haven't found a single meaningful thing he actually did invent....lots of stuff he took and or was wrongly given credit for and lot of other things he may have used or popularized that somehow he became the inventor of but so far he didn't do anything the myths say he did...not the solid body guitar..not the guitar that bears his name...not multitrack recording...not the humbucking or any other pickup that became popular in use but to hear Polfus tell it, right after he discovered water and invented fire he made a pot of coffee and called Thomas Edison on the phone he'd invented and gave him some electronic tips that helped Edison with the incandescent light bulb... Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 When you have a question you want answered do you want to hear someone's speculation through their exercise of free speech or do you want to hear the actual answer? Nelson concidering that nothing i'd ask in these forums will ever result in a life or death , or multi million dollar decision on my part, I really don't mind some speculation, as i'm able to seperate the "wheat from the chaff" with additional research. that said, I DO understand what you're getting at, but, concidering that even Epiphone isn't exactly certain what they did or didn't make through the 60's, I find it hard to take 1 or 2 authors word on the subject as that much more reliable than the word of several ppl that have owned these guitars for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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