Action against counterfeit guitars (slash les paul)...applicable in CANADA?

[LesBonfire]

Hey everyone, I'm a new member to the forum but have been checkin it out for a while now for info. Recently my focus has been on the counterfeit guitars being sold in North America. I have recently determined that I was duped last month into buying a fake copy of the epiphone les paul slash signature!!! This totally pissed me off, I contacted the guy I got the guitar from and he gave me the typical bull **** of..."tough luck"...after looking on the epiphone site I saw the link to the counterfeit guitar thing which took me to the page on the gibson site that mentioned some kid in north carolina actually had the guy arrested that sold the guitar. If any of you guys have checked this out and know anything bout this...can you please tell me if this can be done in Canada. I know i'm a dummy for being tricked...but I think this guy should be made an example of... please give me as much info as you guys can we can stop this!! Thanks guys!!

[Bender 4 Life]

I'm definitely NOT an expert, but I can offer what i've seen about this subject in forums, on websites, and in the news.

 

What (if any) action taken upon this seller will be decided by many variables, such as.............

 

Where physically IS the seller, if in another country, I imagine it would be almost impossible to

get law enforcement to take action, if they're on another continent, thats even worse.

 

How much proof do you have that the guitar is counterfeit, and can you prove exactly who sold it to you?

 

Can it be proven that the seller KNEW it was a fake? is yours the only complaint registered against

them, or is there a history of problems with this seller?

 

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, as you have a hard way to go, perhaps contacting Gibson/Epiphone would help, although i've heard they take the attitude of: "should have purchased from an authorized dealer".

[msuspartansfan]

Where is the seller?

Where did you buy it?

I'm guessing you didn't get the thing from US or Canada. If that's the case, I'm guessing you'd best just get some decent pups etc... and build yourself a new guitar out of it, mod it. If, on the other hand, it's from Canada, call the police and Yorkville.

[james_edward]

Just out of curiosity, did you find it on craigslist with a location of yonge & steeles?

[LesBonfire]

hey guys, naw i didn't buy one of those customs from that dude at yonge and steeles...i remember that guys adds on kijiji for sure! haha anyways...i bought it from a guy in hamilton! i have his address, his name and saved the emails between us that we exchanged to buy the guitar from kijiji. i told the guy to get ahold of whoever it was that sold him that guitar and he said he doesn't have any information to contact the guy. The has been trying to tell me that he didn't know that the guitar was a fake copy, he had the guitar for 6-7 months or something, it took me a month to finally figure it out as fake...(should have taken me a split second....I KNOW ) but nonetheless, i was trying to be nice to him about all this. I offered him to take the guitar back and give me my money back (unlikely) or to gimme part of the money back (said he wouldn't comprimise), then he started to be a real *** and got rude and told me he was changing his email etc. I'm headin to a shop right now actually, their a Gibson dealer and I'm gonna make sure its a fake, and there is also a cop shop around the corner. The only other thing I can think of doing, is selling the guitar for what it is....a slash les paul COPY...but that just fuels the fire for somebody else to go sell it for a grand when its only worth $200 bucks at the most...keep posting guys, i'm interested in everything everyone has to say.

[msuspartansfan]

phone the police

[acewarslave]

yep i know how u feel but there aint much u can do.i had the same problem with my ace frehley eppi the powers that be dont want to know when i comes from flee bay..live and learn keep the guitar as a reminder thats what ive done ,and try to move on..sorry cant help much more than that](*,)

[LesBonfire]

so it turns out that the kid wasn't lying, he got the guitar from that guy that sells them at yonge and finch. has anybody bought guitars from a guy named mark or "mordy" on either kijiji or craigslist?...location yonge and finch (toronto).

[sixstring19682]

I can sure relate to your problem I to have fallen into a trap of sort on ebay early this spring while looking around for a double neck but in my case I should have known better though to be honest I'd not been back on line long enough to catch up with all the latest scams going on,a year prior I'd heard that there were people taking reissues of certain Gibson guitars and antiquing them to look as if they were the real deal and passing them off for a price that reflected the real deal when they were nothing but real Gibson reissues.

When I came across the listing which was a one day listing with really small unclear photos of a double neck guitar that had tail tell signs of Being an Epiphone G-1275 with case included in fact the listing said Epiphone in it,I wasn't about to let this thing pass me by I hit the buy it now button got my conformation email and was happy well the guy never contacted me I didn't think anything of it but in the mean time I stole the pictures from the action was going to send them to a friend of mind to gloat a bit about my grand buy.

As I looked at the pictures it sure looked to me like the headstock on this guitar said Gibson and not Epiphone,but the cover over the pot cavity was shaped like the Epi G-1275 cover so I blew the photos up sure enough it said Gibson(Les Paul)I knew something was up and started doing my homework I thought maybe this was some sort of new design no such luck it was a counterfeit!

All the while this low life had not once contacted me about wining the one day auction so I contacted him and told him that he and I were going to have words over this situation I hinted quite obviously that I knew what this guitar was long story short before I contacted him I noticed at lead eleven other listing for the same guitar from the same seller,he got back with me played stupid so I disputed the situation and got my money back I also noticed that not long after that this fellow was no longer an Ebay seller,I might add here he's like not under the same account that he once had!?

I couldn't let this thing go though I started looking into this situation further I read all the so called tips on how to spot a fake Gibson or Epiphone and none of them are helpful now in fact those tips from the location of the pots or three screws in the truss rod cover even down to serial numbers its all useless in fact many of the serial numbers on these counterfeit guitars are real legit numbers,that like could be from a guitar still be hanging in your local music store right now and you would never know it neither would Gibson.

But there's two sides of the fence here those who remain in the worship of Epiphone and Gibson who aren't aware of the fact that even as I write this less than 30 miles from my location in a town called Brownburgh Indiana there is a warehouse owned by a well known retailer called guitar center there is likely at least one semi trailer sitting at a dock being unloaded and the cargo on that trailer is likely boxes of guitars that state clearly Gibson China?

This likely is the reason for the ho hum attitude from Gibson towards people who buy an assumed Gibson,or Epiphone product from a non sanctioned Gibson dealer,but as of recent I've come to relise the statement I've made on other forums about this subject has pretty much become a fact Gibson is up and running in China has been for some time now and before its all over there will be no more Gibson U.S.A.

I hate to come off sounding like a jerk here but if the guitar is playable I'd keep it take what ever action I had to do to make it more suitable to your taste and feel Ie; the action tuner peg replacement if need and watch buying from anyone other than a reputable dealer,to put some light humor into this post if the description has the word beauty electricity guitar its likely a fake LOL.... if you ask the seller why he calls it an electricity guitar and he reply's by telling you that its because you can plug it into a wall outlet its definitely a fake=d>

[leicester35]

[it] has pretty much become a fact Gibson is up and running in China has been for some time now and before its all over there will be no more Gibson U.S.A.

I hate to come off sounding like a jerk here but if the guitar is playable I'd keep it take what ever action I had to do to make it more suitable to your taste and feel Ie; the action tuner peg replacement if need and watch buying from anyone other than a reputable dealer

 

A couple of points in response to this...I think there will always be a "Gibson USA" - as long as there is a perception by customers that American made products are 'top end.' I reckon Gibson like selling Les Paul Standards at around $2500 - they're not going to sell as many as they do at present if the potential buyer sees a "handcrafted in China" sticker on the back. At that point' date=' why not just buy a Chinese Epi instead, and do some upgrades and save yourself a packet? To put it in perspective: a little while ago, both my friend and I bought Strats while we were in the U.S. I bought a 2008 American Standard, he bought a 2008 (Mexican made) Classic Player 60s. I paid $999, he paid $799. You know who actually got the better guitar...? well, much as I love my Strat, I've eventually decided that it wasn't me. On the plus side, the hardshell case that came free with mine is great. But then he picked up a nice Gator case for around $75. But...to be honest, I [b']do[/b] love that USA decal on my headstock. Maybe that makes me a bit pathetic. What the heck...I can easily foresee a time when the only American made Fenders are the really high end production models, and Custom Shop stuff. After all, by the time we had finished - one of us had a Mexican guitar, the other had an American one, and we were only $125 apart. If people are going to buy high-end Mexican guitars, why keep the cheaper USA made line? To further prove the point, my mate has since bought a Baja Telecaster in preference to a new American Standard model.

 

But Gibson don't really have this problem. With the demise of the Elitists, there is now a huge gulf in price between Asian Epiphones and American Gibsons. Excluding the Gibson Faded series, the cheapest Gibson Les Paul is the Studio, at $1320. The most expensive standard Epi Les Paul model is the Custom, at $799. That's a much bigger chunk of change than fell between my friend and I with our Strats. If I liked Les Pauls I'd run out and buy this at Sweetwater for $1200 right now, assuming they still have one in stock...

 

 

Maybe I've finally understood why Gibson/Epiphone axed the Elitists...they blurred the line. Mr Gibson Buyer has $2500 to buy his LP Standard, whereas Mr Epiphone Buyer has $600 for his. Maybe Gibson like it that way - their guitars are reassuringly expensive, so you must be getting something great for your money - they must be worth every last penny of their exorbitant price tags.

 

Which is all by the by...

 

One thing bothers me about SixString 1968's final point:

 

"I hate to come off sounding like a jerk here but if the guitar is playable I'd keep it take what ever action I had to do to make it more suitable to your taste "

 

There is a more sinister side to these counterfeits than honest buyers being ripped off and stuck with a fake. Epiphone manufacture in China, but they seem to be (quite rightfully) proud of their production practices and how they treat their Chinese workforce: http://www.epiphone.com/FactoryTour/qdtour.html

 

On the other hand, the counterfeit guitars are made for people engaged in what is, after all, a criminal enterprise. But I'm guessing that the people who make the money out of this are not knocking these things up at home in their garage. I'm also guessing that the craftsmen who make the fakes might not enjoy the same security as Epiphone's employees. I'm not convinced the counterfeit bosses are going to worry too much about respirators and safety guards on cutting and planing machines... Maybe we owe it everyone not to feed this criminal activity by hoping to save a few bucks and buying a "new" Epiphone from a dodgy source...

[carverman]

...i bought it from a guy in hamilton! i have his address' date=' his name and saved the emails between us that we exchanged to buy the guitar from kijiji. i told the guy to get ahold of whoever it was that sold him that guitar and he said he doesn't have any information to contact the guy. The has been trying to tell me that he didn't know that the guitar was a fake copy, he had the guitar for 6-7 months or something, it took me a month to finally figure it out as fake.[/quote']

 

If you bought it privately on kijji, the free buy/sell website, then you take your chances...Caveat Emptor..buyer beware!

 

This was sold as used, and like any other used item, you take your chances if you are buying privately. As long

as the seller delivered the goods, and they are not stolen, there isn't too much the cops will do. You didn't

buy it from a dealer and like most private sales, once the money is exchanged and the goods received, the

sale is considered final. This is a lesson learned for next time. Play it, maybe customize it and get time out of it to make you feel better about having it. You won't get much for it, but there is always someone else with not too

much money to spend that will buy it.

off you on kijji.

[carverman]

I couldn't let this thing go though I started looking into this situation further I read all the so called tips on how to spot a fake Gibson or Epiphone and none of them are helpful now in fact those tips from the location of the pots or three screws in the truss rod cover even down to serial numbers its all useless in fact many of the serial numbers on these counterfeit guitars are real legit numbers' date='that like could be from a guitar still be hanging in your local music store right now and you would never know it neither would Gibson. [/quote']

 

The counterfeiters are getting more and more clever each day. They have made

counterfeit Ming Dynasty vases that fooled Christie's auction for a while...and that

took some doing...so to counterfeit a guitar is no problemo to these asian factories.

They take a few random samples of genuine serial numbers, duplicate those and

spread them around between shipments, so that possibly ever counterfeit

guitar has an "authentic" sn. The individual buyer may not be able to tell for a

while because there is no way of cross checking at least initially to see if it's

a fake or not..but sooner or later, once the buyer plays it, and experienced

enough with the Gibson tone, they should be able to tell.

 

 

This likely is the reason for the ho hum attitude from Gibson towards people who buy an assumed Gibson,or Epiphone product from a non sanctioned Gibson dealer,but as of recent I've come to relise the statement I've made on other forums about this subject has pretty much become a fact Gibson is up and running in China has been for some time now and before its all over there will be no more Gibson U.S.A.

 

Well if you didn't buy the guitar from an authorized dealer, why should they? Internet and Flea-bay allow

more and more counterfeiters to hawk their wares. It's an epidemic and there is no easy solution.

In today's global economic situation, anything is possible. unfortunately, should that happen, it would promote

even more counterfeit factories over there..because of the higher prices that these products fetch on the

internet markets.

 

I think the only way for Gibson to deal with this is through a microchip imbed where they retain and control the codes.

Anything that's visible is easy to duplicate.

[Beans]

 

I think the only way for Gibson to deal with this is through a microchip imbed where they retain and control the codes.

Anything that's visible is easy to duplicate.

 

 

Thats a great idea carverman....you can have your pets microchipped, why not guitars? There's no replacement for a beloved dog, including a guitar but they are both meant to give you pleasure for a very long time.

 

Since joining this forum not long ago, i've read too many stories about good honest people being screwed out of their hard earned money on guitars that are total sh*t. I mean, if you think it's getting tougher to spot a fake, give it a year, when the counterfeiters have read the same 'Fake Guides' as we have, the only security you'll have about buying an Epi/ Gibson is going to an authorised dealer. It's because of places like this, with all the helpful folks on the forum that I am aware of how bad the epidemic is.

[carverman]

 

Since joining this forum not long ago' date=' i've read too many stories about good honest people being screwed out of their hard earned money on guitars that are total sh*t. I mean, if you think it's getting tougher to spot a fake, give it a year, when the counterfeiters have read the same 'Fake Guides' as we have, the only security you'll have about buying an Epi/ Gibson is going to an authorised dealer. It's because of places like this, with all the helpful folks on the forum that I am aware of how bad the epidemic is.

 

[/quote']

 

It's not only guitars where innocent people are being scammed these days.

 

On last nights local news, a local family had their Xmas vacation ruined because

the website that they found featuring the vacation villa rental was being run from Ghana (Africa)

unbeknown to the family.

 

Now everyone is probably familiar with the Nigerian scammers which are still active and prey on

people's gullibility...ie: we need a US/Cdn account to launder this money..

We'll send you a check for $XX(in thousands) , you cash it, and wire us $YY and keep the

remainder for your troubles" scam.... But you would think that if you are lining up a

vacation villa in Florida USA, of all places, that everything is legit?

 

Apparently...not so..the poor family was steered to wire the money somewheres else,

and then found out that the scammers were using the rental villas site as a ruse to

con innocent people out of $4000 US ($5000 cdn) with no hope of recovery now.

 

These scammers have no concience, so everyone needs to be dilegent these days

when ordering anything on the internet, UNLESS you have dealt with the business/individual

and you know they are legit, because the goods you ordered and received were exactly

as advertised.

 

It all comes back to the old saying: "If it sounds too good to be true..THEN it IS!"

[Beans]

Too true Caverman, on this side of the pond there's a new TV show every week telling how ordinary people are getting scammed, whether it be money wiring (or laundering), or identity theft. There was one where you had to put a deposit down on a flat (sorry, apartment!) to even have a look around it, the presenter rang the scammer asking why, and the guy on the other end of the phone just kept repeating "just send the money, just send the money!" Quite funny in a way, but not if you got scammed by them.

[alcorn429]

you could get him for fraud relating to a sale. Then he'd also have a **** load of bad luck coming from the company

[alcorn429]

plus if it was sent through postage its considered a federal crime

[djroge1]

I may have missed "how" you paid but if you used a Visa or Visa/debit card then you can call Visa and ask them about the transaction. You may get your money back - it's no guarantee, but worth talking to them. If you paid cash, check, or money order then that's too bad.

[james_edward]

This guy is at it again, he's running his ad in Toronto with this phone number - Mark 416-895-6174

 

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-New-Gibson-Epiphone-Zakk-Wylde-Bullseye-Les-Paul-Custom-w-Hard-W0QQAdIdZ78092731

[LesBonfire]

ya i saw that the other day actually...he won't answer my emails...but i got pretty rude with him so that's prolly why. However...if we could get the number for Yorkville ( the distributor in Pickering i think it is) they maybe interested in some of this info?

[carverman]

This guy is at it again' date=' he's running his ad in Toronto with this phone number - Mark 416-895-6174

 

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-New-Gibson-Epiphone-Zakk-Wylde-Bullseye-Les-Paul-Custom-w-Hard-W0QQAdIdZ78092731[/quote']

 

He doesn't show the headstock on this ad....but if you check out his other ads,

he's trying to sell a cable box access tool ($20)that is only available to cable repair

or new installation. He's bold enough to describe that it fits Rogers/Cogeco.,,and

others..and is saying "OPEN UP THE CABLE BOX OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE!!!! FREE case! "

 

This tool is not supposed to be sold to the general public and therefore constitutes

fraud! You may be able to catch him this way. I would suggest that the original poster

submit this ad information to the cable company in Toronto (Rogers or Cogeco) as he

may have an ISP acct with one of these.