EpiSheriMan Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Anyone know the full story on these? Looks like they where a limited run and AIA (Assembled in America). Not cheap at over $ 2,500!!!! Looks like they have even left the hole positions of Kluson tuning pegs on the Revolution model..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'd kill for one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah, those are pretty sweet guitars. What's the difference between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beatles Sound Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah' date=' those are pretty sweet guitars. What's the difference between the two?[/quote']the colour , of course :)/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lol, oh yeah I didn't realise they were a different colour... :) Any other differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have the John Lennon 65 version (Sunburst), it really is a nice guitar. Period correct to the same specs as an original 65 model. These in fact were not that limited, there are officially 1965 produced of each version, each individually numbered, but there appears to be plenty of seconds and carcasses (just bodies and necks, without hardware) on the market. I would agree with what Nelson said in a previous post, about these costing somewhere in the region of $5,000, if they had been made in the U.S, instead of just assembled there!!. The necks and bodies are made by Terada in Japan, and the Nitro finish probably applied there as well. They are then shipped to the U.S. where all the hardware is added, and final set up takes place. Hope this answers your question, as I say, very nice guitars, but I`m not sure they are worth some of the prices being asked, but then you would have to pay an awful lot, for a real mid sixties Casino!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Lol' date=' oh yeah I didn't realise they were a different colour... '](*,) Any other differences? Besides the color, the depth of the laquer finish is different. The Revolution model is meant to reproduce the condition of John's guitar after he had the sunburst finish (as in the '65) sanded off, so it has only a very light layer of matte-finished laquer on the neck and body. This gives the neck a slightly different feel, and is said by some to increase the resonance of the body. I have both, and will admit that the Revolution sounds a little different, but any two models of any guitar, especially a hollowbody, are bound to sound somehwat different. The Revolution also different tuners (gold Grovers), and marks are made in the headstock to simulate where the impressions the originals would have left. The Revolution also has no pickguard, and an additional black control knob is included, as a knob that didn't match the originals was used as a replacement at one time. The '65 and Revolution guitars are suberb instruments, and are a cut above even the Elitist Casino (which in itself is excellent). Gibson is now selling an ES 330 (which is essentially the same instrument, but with a wider neck which is joined to the body at a higher fret, which means the PUPs are in a different location) for about the same price one of the Lennons, so that's another option. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Ah, I see. Thanks for the info! I would love one of those... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guys,...are they Polyurathane or Nitrocellulose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guys' date='...are they Polyurathane or Nitrocellulose?[/quote'] The two Lennons are nitro. The Elitist (and standard issue) is poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I actually purchased three JL REVS, two of them were are at different stages of completion, but I sold those.... I eventually purchased one through a private auction, which I found out afterwards was also listed on Craigslist. Nevertheless I acquired it for a great price and it came with everything (with exception of the black volume knob). My only complaints are: when the pickup selector switch is in the middle it rattles. the headstock looks ridiculously too big for the guitar. edit* also the placement of the inner body stickers.... I don't like the fact that they are so visible through the f-holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I actually purchased three JL REVS' date=' two of them were are at different stages of completion, but I sold those.... I eventually purchased one through a private auction, which I found out afterwards was also listed on Craigslist. Nevertheless I acquired it for a great price and it came with everything (with exception of the black volume knob). My only complaints are: when the pickup selector switch is in the middle it rattles. the headstock looks ridiculously too big for the guitar. edit* also the placement of the inner body stickers.... I don't like the fact that they are so visible through the f-holes.[/quote'] Duane. The fabled Switchcraft selector switch on my Lennon 65, also rattles (on occasion), but that tends to happen with most Casino`s anyway. I agree about the big white sticker, just a stamped number would have done, but I like the Blue one. As for the h/stock, I love that oversized hourglass shape, it is one of two reasons why I prefer the Casino to the ES330, the other being the Sunburst hugging the body outline, is much more attractive, than the normal Gibson sunburst pattern. My one complaint about the reissues, is that they used Pearloid for the h/stock name, and not MOP, which is used on the originals. That does appear to be the only thing that is incorrect! (My matsumoku Casino`s have a MOP logo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Duane. The fabled Switchcraft selector switch on my Lennon 65' date=' also rattles (on occasion), but that tends to happen with most Casino`s anyway. I agree about the big white sticker, just a stamped number would have done, but I like the Blue one. As for the h/stock, I love that over-sized hourglass shape, it is one of two reasons why I prefer the Casino to the ES330, the other being the Sunburst hugging the body outline, is much more attractive, than the normal Gibson sunburst pattern. My one complaint about the reissues, is that they used Pearloid for the h/stock name, and not MOP, which is used on the originals. That does appear to be the only thing that is incorrect! (My matsumoku Casino`s have a MOP logo).[/quote'] Well at least I'm not the only one that has the switch rattle issue, so I feel a little better.... But I really don't like the white inner sticker and here's the reason why: To me it looks like kinda cheezy, especially the had written serial#... I think Epi could have stamped a secondary serial # on the head stock. I mean sheesh they give you enough case candy docs, so I feel there was no reason for the white secondary inner label sticker..... however I can live with the blue one. The headstock sorta bothers me especially the back... Also the original TRC looked cheezy, I was able to sell it for $100, which allowed me to purchase an authentic 1967 TRC, (to commemorate the year Lennon hacked away on his Casino). To me the Grovers just don't look centered (see image), and I'm still a little bothered by the etch marks from the Klusons. But I give Epi high marks for trying to make it authentic as possible Also the top part (bout) of the head stock appears out of proportion with the TRC area of the headstock...(see image)... It looks strange to me. Really it's just some minor details, but I really dig the guitar... Best feeling axe I've ever owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Duane, I wouldn`t bother about the Grovers being a bit off, they were all over the place on Lennons!!, plus loads of chips on the black h/stock face as well. Just an inked number in the upper/lower F/hole would have done for me. As for the TRC, they look pretty faithful to the originals in my mind, with maybe the printed White "E" being a bit heavier. And if I was to really nitpick, the dot above the I on the h/stock logo is behind the letter on Lennons guitar, but directly above on the reissues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Frenchie Do you have any detailed images of JL's actual Casino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Frenchie Do you have any detailed images of JL's actual Casino? I`ve got Andy Babiuk`s Beatles gear book, and Lennon`s Casino is across pages 218/9. And on page 219, there is a photo, showing a close up of the top half of the back of the h/stock, and in that you can see the four visible tuners hardly line up at all. On the front of the h/stock the paint around four of the six tuner posts has chipped away to varying degrees. Lennon may have been a genius, but he couldn`t replace tuners very well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 He was a "Rhythmer!" ;>) "No Thanks, I'm Rhythm guitar and Mouth Organ!" CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 The two Lennons are nitro. The Elitist (and standard issue) is poly. I believe they have a thin nitro coat over a thicker poly coat which is pretty much the standard version of a nitro finish these days on all but the really high end or small builder guitars. As a good friend of mine says - just buy a good sounding and playing guitar and don't worry what is squirted on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I believe they have a thin nitro coat over a thicker poly coat which is pretty much the standard version of a nitro finish these days on all but the really high end or small builder guitars. As a good friend of mine says - just buy a good sounding and playing guitar and don't worry what is squirted on it. Standard for Fender, sure, since the early 60's (the grain filler is poly, and some color coats). But I've never heard of Gibson doing it. I certainly didn't SEE that process when I visited the Bozeman factory. I don't know for certain what Terada did in Japan (Japan's Edwards did offer a laquer over poly finish on some models), but I believe the Lennon Casinos to have nitrocellulose finished in the traditional sense. Where did you get your information? Please share. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 First, I think the Lennon Casinos are incredibly fine instruments - would take one over most off the shelf Gibsons in a heartbeat. Bozeman turns out a nice acoustic but tends to take quite a few liberties with the features of their "True Vintage" guitars. Many are made with woods and bracing never seen in a Hart or McCarty period guitar. With the exception of the Legend Series - if ya want old school Gibson tone you have to buy an old Gibson. There is alot of misconception about nitro these days. Many guitars believed to be nitro finished are actually finished with an acrylic lacquer which uses a synthetic polymer as a binding agent. This stuff was developed for the automobile industry. All of Gibson's custom colors after 1957 (which are essentially car colors) such as Polaris White and Cardinal Red, were acrylic lacquer. Fender used the same stuff for their custom colors. One of the dirty little secrets of most electrics advertised as lacquer guitars is also that the lacquer is applied over a base coat of poly wood sealer. But this ain't a bad thing - if it was not done after about three winters your guitar will start looking the worse for wear as the finish sinks down into the wood. Also a true lacquer finish will also lose about 1/2 its thickness on the course of a year as the finish cures. This is why in the 1950s Gibson shot their Forbes PPG lacquer in very thick coats - they actually used to heat it to get a more even coat. If I remember corrrectly though, Kalamazoo-made Epis, both at the Parsons and later Eleanor Street plants, were poly finished. So a nitro finish would not even be accurate for a mid-60s Casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Anyone know the full story on these? Looks like they where a limited run and AIA (Assembled in America). Not cheap at over $ 2' date='500!!!! [img']http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/spotondrums/JohnLennon.jpg[/img] Looks like they have even left the hole positions of Kluson tuning pegs on the Revolution model..... THE STORY OF JOHN LENNON'S EPIPHONE CASINO THE CASINO SOUND The Casino has the same basic body dimensions and construction of the commonly recognized Gibson ES-335, the Epiphone Riviera and the Epiphone Sheraton. However, unlike the 335-style body, which features a solid-center block, the Casino is completely hollow. Additionally, older Casinos featured a 17-degree (as opposed to a 14-degree) headstock and a neck joint at the 16th (as opposed to the 17th) fret. This creates more string tension and when combined with the thin, hollow body produces a very unique sound - one that has become most associated with John Lennon and the Beatles. IT BEGAN WITH PAUL IN 1964 Paul McCartney purchased a Casino together with an Epiphone Texan acoustic in December 1964. Pictures taken of the Beatles in their dressing room during the Christmas shows in December of 1964 at the Hammersmith Odean Cinema in London show McCartney with his new early version sunburst Epiphone Casino with it's "Gibson" shaped head stock and Bigsby( (still strung right handed). This same photo session captured John Lennon playing McCartney's new instrument and was Lennon's first brush with the Casino. Soon after, on Monday February 15, 1965 at EMI Abbey Road Studio Two London, McCartney used the Casino (now strung left-handed) to play the memorable lead on the Beatles classic "Ticket to Ride". McCartney continued to use the Epiphone on various over-dubs making the Casino a familiar guitar sound on many of the Beatles records. JOHN AND GEORGE GET THEIRS It was in the spring of 1966 during the recording sessions for the Beatles "Revolver" that both John and George acquired a pair of sunburst Epiphone Casinos. The serial number indicates that John's was built in 1965. The most visual difference between the two almost identical guitars is that Harrison's Casino had a Bigsby and Lennon's Casino came with the stock trapeze tailpiece. Lennon's guitar also had an uncommon, but factory stock, black grommet ring mounted around his pickup selector switch. Both Casino's had the more commonly seen Epiphone style head stock. PERFORMING AND RECORDING WITH THE CASINO Lennon first used the new Casino live on Sunday May 1, 1966 at the New Musical Express Annual Poll-Winners' All-Star Concert held at London's Empire Poll, Wembley. It was from this point on that John chose the Epiphone Casino as his main electric guitar. On June 24, 1966, the Beatles embarked on their third world tour, which included stops in Germany, Japan, the Philippines and the United States. For this tour, John Lennon chose his Epiphone Casino as his main guitar with his Gibson J-160E brought along as a spare. Lennon used the Casino for every live performance on this tour including the Beatles infamous final live performance on August 29, 1966 at Candlestick Park, San Francisco. Although soon ending their live performances, the Fab Four focused their work in the studio unleashing one of their most influential albums of the 1960's, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". During these lengthy recording sessions, John would once again choose his Casino as his main electric guitar. THE CASINO GETS ITS FIRST PAINT JOB By 1967 the psychedelic movement in London was in full swing and mind expanding was all the rage. Embracing the psychedelic mood of the time, Lennon commissioned the artist "The Fool" to paint psychedelic works of art on his Rolls Royce, his upright piano and his Gibson J-160E acoustic guitar. John also chose his Epiphone to experiment with by painting the back of it with white and gray spray paint leaving the front of the guitar with it's stock sunburst finish. During the "Sgt. Pepper" recording sessions, Lennon also removed the stock Epiphone pick guard leaving the pick guard mounting bracket and screw on the guitar. STRIPPED OF COLOR On May 19, 1968, John and Yoko recorded an experimental album "Unfinished Music No. 1: Two Virgins". The album cover featured a nude picture of John and Yoko. As John and Yoko had shed their clothes stripping naked for the album cover, it was around this time that Lennon had his Casino stripped down, removing the original factory finish as well as his own psychedelic paint job. He thought the guitar would sound better without finish on it. The guitar was sanded down to the bare wood and finished with a very thin, dull coat of lacquer. This newly recreated version of the Casino was first used by Lennon in the summer of 1968 during the Beatles recording sessions for the Beatles double record, "The White Album". It too was stripped of color. ON THE ROOF Filming for what was to become the Beatles last movie, "Let It Be", started on January 2, 1969. The film revolved around the Beatles writing and rehearsing new material in the studio. Throughout the film, John can be seen faithfully playing his beloved Casino. The filming climaxes on January 30th with the Beatles celebrated performance on the London roof top of their Apple Corp. office building at number 3 Savile Row. For this last magical public performance given by the Beatles as a band, Lennon once again chose his Epiphone Casino Work on the last Beatles studio album "Abbey Road" started on July 1, 1969, at EMI Studio Two, London. Lennon used his Epiphone Casino throughout these summer sessions on this the last official Beatles studio work. The album was released in the UK on September 26, 1969. HIS SOLO CAREER Lennon continued to use his Epiphone Casino through the many performance and recordings with the "Plastic Ono Band" and eventually changed the stock Epiphone tuning pegs to a set of gold Grover tuners. In the late 1970's, Lennon had planned to have his Casino changed back to its original sunburst finish. However, the re-finishing never took place. The guitar, still in its natural wood finish, is currently owned by Yoko Ono Lennon and is part of the Lennon Estate. It is registered in inventory as "The Revolution Guitar". THE LIMITED EDITION, USA COLLECTION JOHN LENNON CASINOS In November 1997, a team of engineers from Epiphone and Gibson visited "The Dakota" in Manhattan to examine John's Epiphone Casino. During the examination, measurements were carefully performed, body tracings were done, drawings were created, and photographs were taken. As a result of these efforts and in cooperation with Yoko Ono, Epiphone proudly reissues two Limited Edition John Lennon Casinos. The "John Lennon 1965 Casino" is a reproduction of the guitar as John originally purchased it with the vintage sunburst finish and stock hardware. The "John Lennon Revolution Casino is a reproduction of the "stripped" Casino featuring one dull coat of lacquer, Gold Grover tuning pegs and with the pickguard removed. Each guitar is hand-numbered and a combined total of only 1,965 John Lennon Epiphone Casino's will be produced. A portion of the proceeds from the sale of each instrument will be donated to "The BMI Foundation, Inc. for the John Lennon Scholarship Fund" which supports music education. The John Lennon Signature "1965" Casino Features... * Vintage Sunburst Color with nitro-cellulose lacquer finish over white body binding - hand buffed * Original Body Shape - Based upon Mid - '60's Kalamazoo, Michigan tooling specs * Body Materials - 5-layer (Maple/Birch/Maple/Birch/Maple) * Top Contour Bracing - Spruce with original relief-cut spacing and depth * One-Neck Mahogany Neck with 14 degree neck grain orientation * Rosewood Fingerboard with original 0.062" thick pearloid parallelogram fret markers * Stamped with John's original serial number on the back of the headstock (#328393) * Original Elliptical Neck Shape * Neck Binding over fret ends * 3-ply (W/B/W) pickguard with original shape and foil "E" mark * Scale Length - 24.75" * Original "Corian" nut material * Headstock Angle - 17 degrees * Nickel-plated, Dog-Earred P-90 Pickup Cover with Original String Spacing * Nickel plated "Gibson-Factory" Hardware * Nickel plated Gotoh "Kluson-style" machine heads * "Gibson-Factory" Electronics * Dove-Tail Neck-Joint at the 16th fret * Switchcraft toggle switch with original toggle switch washer * Original style "Push-in" machine head bushings * ABR Bridge with nylon saddles * Vintage style case with shroud The John Lennon Signature "Revolution" Casino Features... * Stripped "Vintage Natural" with one coat of nitro-cellulose lacquer sealer over white body binding * Original Body Shape - Based upon Mid - '60's Kalamazoo, Michigan tooling specs * Body Materials - 5-layer (Maple/Birch/Maple/Birch/Maple) * Top Contour Bracing - Spruce with original relief-cut spacing and depth * One-Neck Mahogany Neck with 14 degree neck grain orientation * Rosewood Fingerboard with original 0.062" thick pearloid parallelogram fret markers * Stamped with John's original serial number on the back of the headstock (#328393) * Original Elliptical Neck Shape * Neck Binding over fret ends * 3-ply (W/B/W) pickguard with original shape and foil "E" mark (removed) * Scale Length - 24.75" * Original "Corian" nut material * Headstock Angle - 17 degrees * Nickel-plated, Dog-Earred P-90 Pickup Cover with Original String Spacing * Nickel plated "Gibson-Factory" Hardware * Gold Grover Machine Heads * "Gibson-Factory" Electronics * Dove-Tail Neck-Joint at the 16th fret * Switchcraft toggle switch with original toggle switch washer * ABR Bridge with nylon saddles * Vintage style case with shroud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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