HarpBoy Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I've noticed a lot of people repeating the notion that Epi Les Pauls have a solid body of mahogany and only a veneer, which Epiphone calls a cap. I'd like to state my opinion on this, and I'd be interested in hearing that of others. From every picture I've seen of LP's with the pickups removed, and guitars I've checked out at the local Long & MacQuade, I'd say that Epiphone does put a hardwood cap on their bodies, just like they say they do. I checked one out yesterday, and on the inside of the lower bout the cap was clearly visible below the binding. I think there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding as myths and errors get repeated over and over. Epiphone says they use a maple or alder cap. They do not mention the fact that the surface grain of the body (flame, plain, quilted, etc) is applied with a veneer, but neither do any other manufacturers except PRS, who actually made it part of an ad campaign for their SE line at one time. The related issue of the kind of wood they use is also subject to a great deal of speculation and error, in my view. There seems to be a whole lot of experts on the forums about wood, it seems to me (I say this somewhat sardonically). There are many, many disparaging remarks about the kind and quality of wood, and I can't help wondering how everyone can speak so authoritatively about the kind of wood used. I'm just guessing here, but I suspect a large percentage of the "experts" couldn't tell one species from another if they were shown blanks made of alder, maple and poplar. The reason I bring this up is because I feel that uninformed, disparaging comments about how Epiphone constructs their guitars with what woods does nothing to help people who come to the forums looking for help about what guitar might be good for them as a first purchase. I also think that it only serves to perpetuate misinformation. Look, Epiphone and all the other manufacturers have to use less than "top quality" wood in order to meet their price points for building guitars. This is nothing new; it's been going on since the 60's. The wood in guitars is probably the single most expensive component. And as I've said elsewhere, woods that were popular for their beauty (and "tone", although I'm reluctant to even bring that up) are being rapidly depleted to the point that they are either prohibitively expensive or outright protected (brazilian rosewood). In the spirit of propogating knowledge, I'd encourage you to read Fujigen's excellent pages on guitar tonewoods. It sheds some light on the whole black art of wood in guitars. Fujigen knows wood and guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 It's been told to me my guitar's cap is of Alder, with a Quilt Maple veneer. I'm not entirely sure if the Customs are solid "mahogany", but it would stand to reason that maybe the caps are of whatever they can get their hands on at the time of construction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 It's been told to me my guitar's cap is of Alder' date=' with a Quilt Maple veneer. I'm not entirely sure if the Customs are solid "mahogany", but it would stand to reason that maybe the caps are of whatever they can get their hands on at the time of construction[/quote'] Can I ask who told you? If it was here on the forums, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It may very well be, but it may not. And I'd have to ask, why do we care whether it's maple or alder? Alder is the most commonly used wood by Fender, seconded by ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Once again, it is acceptable practice to refer to a piece of low-grade wood with a veneer applied to it by the name of the veneer. So a mahogany cap with a maple veneer becomes a 'maple cap'. This is, nonetheless, different from a solid maple cap; you'll note that the word solid does not appear anywhere in these descriptions. Here's a pic of a stripped Epiphone Les Paul Studio. Underneath the plain maple veneer is a partial cap of Philippine mahogany. Which is a hardwood, so, technically you are right; they do have a hardwood cap. I too have popped the pickups on many, many Epiphone Les Pauls, and while some may have had alder caps the majority these days use the same Philippine mahogany as the rest of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Thanks for posting that interesting article Harp. To be honest though, I've given up caring about this issue - especially when buying guitars in the Epiphone (and similar) price range. All I'm really worried about is how an individual instrument sounds, plays and looks. Case in point, my favorite guitar de jour, my Hagstrom Viking reissue. To my mind, it plays beautifully. Has a great tone (similar to an Epi Sheraton but a little darker). It also looks like the dog's bollocks. However, when you think about it: it's made in China; the body is "5-ply maple" (let's skip the niceties here...that means plywood); it has generic Hagstrom branded tuners, pickups and tailpiece; and (incredibly) a "resinator" fretboard (a wood / epoxy resin mix, in other words)...And I bloody love the thing. It could be made out of hardened peanut-butter for all I care. I think the tone is wonderful, and it's won me more compliments at gigs than any other guitar I've owned. Oh, and before I forget, it cost me less than $700. Maybe if I chose to drop $3000+ on a Gibson Custom Shop guitar then I'd expect a precise species report on the tonewoods used in the construction. With these cheaper guitars...just play them and enjoy them! So, to bring this back to Epiphones... My next planned purchase is a Casino. I expect to pay somewhere between $499 - $699. I have no doubt that the guitar I select will be a delight to own (otherwise I wouldn't choose to buy it). At that price, I just intend to enjoy the instrument rather than ponder the minutiae of its construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 Thanks for posting that interesting article Harp. To be honest though' date=' I've given up caring about this issue - especially when buying guitars in the Epiphone (and similar) price range. All I'm really worried about is how an individual instrument sounds, plays and looks. <snip> So, to bring this back to Epiphones... My next planned purchase is a Casino. I expect to pay somewhere between $499 - $699. I have no doubt that the guitar I select will be a delight to own (otherwise I wouldn't choose to buy it). At that price, I just intend to enjoy the instrument rather than ponder the minutiae of its construction. [/quote'] I think that's my point; why should people care? I think we should encourage the newcomers not to. And you make a good point re the $3000 guitar: I would expect they would (whether I ask for it or not) include a full report on the construction of it, because they do need marketing material to justify the price. I WOULD like to see less disparaging, uninformed opinionating on the boards, but I realize that's just wishful thinking. For my part (being a child of the 50's), I'm just thankful that the guitar companies have figured out how to manufacture affordable instruments of amazing utility compared to the way it was when I was young. After reading the Fujigen piece I finally understand why so many of the necks warped and bodies split. That almost never happens today, "mystery wood" or not. By the way, I do like those Hagstroms! Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart1281734103 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Apologies for the poor quality of these pics, they're digital photos of film pics. I thought perhaps it'd give some idea of what the cap on a custom built looks like, as opposed to the veneer tops. Thing is, you pay for all the goodies you select, including that 5/8' book-matched top pair that's gonna get all carved and routed. And, once it's done to your satisfaction, you've paid in excess of $3000.00 (in my own case a little over $3200) and there's still no guarantee you'll have the instrument you hope for. I love the custom I had built, I'll never part with it. But my little Epi Del Rey is still my go-to, while the Eagle stays in its case unless I just have a hankerin' to play it. The Del Rey looks great, sounds great, feels great and its tons of fun to play. And, in addition, it gets lots of compliments from other pickers, whether for its looks or tone and playability. So...for the money...$3000+ vs. -$600...I've never one time considered the Del Rey an inferior instrument because if its paper veneer flame top. Or for any other reason, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Can I ask who told you? If it was here on the forums' date=' that's exactly what I'm talking about. It may very well be, but it may not. And I'd have to ask, why do we care whether it's maple or alder? Alder is the most commonly used wood by Fender, seconded by ash.[/quote'] I don't care either. Nit-picking is for cork sniffing purists, and it was the guy who does most of the work on my guitars who told me. My reply was, "alder...whats that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I have to agree with the guys who don't really care about what wood is used. My buddy bought a new Jackson; beautiful flamed solid maple top. Paid 4000 bucks for it. He has had nothing but problems. Has actually replaced the whole guitar twice, and is still not happy. I put my Ultra 2 in his hands and he said he wasted his money. BTW the new Jacksons are being built by Fender since they aquired Jackson. As usual with any large company taking over a small one; the quality drops for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I have to agree with the guys who don't really care about what wood is used.My buddy bought a new Jackson; beautiful flamed solid maple top. Paid 4000 bucks for it. He has had nothing but problems. Has actually replaced the whole guitar twice' date=' and is still not happy. I put my Ultra 2 in his hands and he said he wasted his money. BTW the new Jacksons are being built by Fender since they aquired Jackson. As usual with any large company taking over a small one; the quality drops for a while.[/quote'] I used to own a Jackson (KE3 Kelly), and I sold it after I got the Epiphone. Even stock, the Epiphone blew it away in every respect...I'll never own another Jackson, unless maybe it's given to me, certainly never buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthemBassMan Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 My Classic Quilt Top had a two piece "mahogany" back with a probable 4-5 piece alder top. Then the quilted maple veneer over that. The back also has a mahogany veneer over it. All in all she's a good player. If they'd just stop covering everything with veneers and up the grade of wood the least little bit, I think people would prefer that. L8R, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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