What do you think

[Ship of fools]

Yesterday I took my babty in a PR-6E TR in to the shop, for the last several months I have noticed a bit of a rise on my strings from the fret board, not to much just a touch more and I thought well maybe it was time to have a look at the neck to see if I needed to re-adjust the truss rod, well there was just the right amount of curve still in the neck so next came out my yard stick to see if it still lined up properly to the bridge only to find that the body behind the bridge was lifting and the front of the bridge was dipping.

So because my guitar carries a life time warranty off to the shop to see what can be done and if it would be covered, and please ( don't tell me it was a humidity problem my home has a humistat and the RH levels never go lower then 45% or higher then 55% ) and none of my other guitars are doing this so what can cause the body to bowl and have you ever seen this covered by their warranty, this was and will be ( if it comes back right ) a working guitar that has done many recordings and I would be truely lost to not having it back and plus the recordings would have to be re-done to get that sound again if ever ( I may have to find another sound for all of my unfinished work )

This is the very first guitar I have had that has ever done this before and while I have heard of this happening it was almost always because of poor humidity problems.

So come on tell me some good news here friends, I can really use the cheer up as I am feeling a little on the red side at the moment.My baby.

Ship

[taxman]

please don't tell me it was a humidity problem

It probably is a humidity issue.

 

Just because your home is set on what is a nice level, that doesn't mean this particular guitar is finding ideal conditions. The miss-shape that is occurring is a sign of the guitar being affected by humidity. Do you keep it in a case? I would just keep it in a case with a cheap Oasis humidifier and throw into the soundhole a couple of sponges in a baggie with holes punched into one side. Keep the guitar in there for two weeks. See what happens. The symptons you described are exactly what happened to one of my guitars last winter....I fixed it by humidifying the guitar in its case for a week or two.

[Ship of fools]

Hey Beatlenut, not to say your not right, but if it wasn't findng the right condition all of the other guitars wouldn't be be okay either. There are actaully other reasons as to why this could happen, string tension, lose bracing or the plate under the bridge breaking or the wood just can't hold itself.

Some of my luthier friends think that its more of a case of the neck needing re-setting already which is really weird for a 7 year old guitar, but then nothing when it comes to guitars really surprises me any more, there are 20 other guitars in the house and because of the number of instruments I know it can't be a humidity problem or at least one or two of them would be adversely affected also.Ship

[Ship of fools]

Well this is a strange one I recieved word today that they are not going to fix my Epi under warranty and their reasoning is as follows, the guitar was bought in 2005 ( yes this one carries a lifetime warranty ) and then there other reason was that the guitar was dried out. Now I am not what you would call anal about checking but every so often if would go into a case and I would leave it for a couple of days and have my hrgrometer in there to check the level ( which was pretty consistent of 45-50%) but it seems my real problem is how do you prove that you have done everything possible to keep the guitar at a decent level, Its not like it sits in a heated room or in direct sunlight or anything along those lines and I live on the Westcoast so plenty of moisture and for exxtra protection I do have a small one to keep the moisture in the air, it is my home after all.

So it begs to ask why bother then with a warranty if the distributor can say what he likes and you have no recourse in the dispute, I sure hope someone from Epiphone see's this and can offer me a solution or a repair.A dedicated fan of his Epiphone so what do you say Epiphone any help for a Canuck friend.Ship

[peeper]

What do you use to humidify your guitars? How do you store them?

 

Guitars dry out over time, slowly often. The changes are very subtle and sneak up on you, but really, unless you notice something else REALLY obviously wrong (i.e. hunks of wood falling out the sound hole, extra holes/cracks, rattling inside the guitar other than wires/preamps, your bridge lifting off) then that my friend is a dry guitar. Don't trust your hydrometer if it is on your thermostat, you need to take your reading where the guitar is. I use one that will store the low and high so I know the range of the day, not just at the moment. Ikeep it in the case with the guitar along with a small humidifier when I am not playing. I do keep one guitar out all the time, but which one that is gets rotated frequently.

 

Be thankful your other guitars show no signs of dryness, yet. But they will, this one is your most sensitive guitar to dryness at the moment, it is a warning to address your other guitars as well. An ounce of prevention my friend, goes along way.

 

I know it ain't what you want to hear, but its the truth. This guitar failed first, never use the condition of one guitar to asses anothers ability to withstand climate intolerance. All guitars are different, they are HORRIBLE measuring tools!

[Ship of fools]

Yep I do use an in case hygrometer that was purchased, and I do live on the westcoast of canada, so moisture would be more of an issue as one could see from our poor Olympics we suffered from more rain then snow. Oh and did I mention that I have worked with wood so I do know how and why they dry out. And plus the fact that I have been doing this for over 40+ years so I am aware of the perils of guitars and thus that is why this is the very first failure of any of my instruments, which would number well over 200+ guitars in my life time and some were very old Epiphones that were keep the exact same way and they were in excellent condition when it came to making sure the reading were spot on.

But my question was how do you prove your case Musikron that you had done everything in your power to make sure the guitar was well hydrated but failed anyway, how do you as a consumer protect yourself from someone saying that you did it wrong and therefore no warranty applies, and even then they were concerned with the fact that the guitar was purchased over 5 years ago, so what does that mean to a life time warranty then, to me it translates to the fact that the warranty truely means nothing and then why should anyone buy a new guitar with so many on the market, I know I bought it new because of the warranty and could have bought used for about 1/2 price then.

Don't get me wrong its about the principal of the situation I would have no problem in going to buy myself another guitar if I so chose, I am extremely fortunate in that, but I also feel that any maker shouldn't disqualify someone just because it seems that this or that is the problem, when the guitar left it s reading was 48% from 2 different meters, and has always had great readings.Ship

[teegar]

Martins are notorious for developing belly bulging. Generally thought to be a symptom of powerful string pull on a lightly braced top. Light bracing can impart lively and lovely tone, but sooner or later the top starts to bulge behind the bridge, and dip in front of it. This has started to happen to my D-18. You see it all the time on older Martins. The fact that it happens to the "best" acoustic dreadnaughts means that it's not really a sign of poor manufacturing, or even necessarily of improper storage. It's just aging, and if it doesn't happen to another guitar stored exactly the same way, it may well be the difference in lightness or heaviness of bracing. Most luthiers do NOT recommend trying to flatten a belly bulge, preferring a neck set, as flattening the bulge is more invasive and risky, trying to re-glue braces and bridge plates etc. Seven years is a short time to need a re-set, but it happens.

[Ship of fools]

But with a neck re-set shouldn't that be a warranty problem? And from what other forums are saying is that basically there is never going to be a way of proving that you had done everything right, short of filming the guitar everyday and the work that you have done yourself or a professional has done to it, it just seems that it comes down to what ever their tech says, well thats the way it must of happened right. And while I aprrecaite that they have to come to some conclusion towards everyones request for warranty work there must be a better way of disputing their conclusions and stop making it so difficult to have work done.

But I will not just stop because they concluded something, I will next seek resolution from the customer service in Yorkville ( Canadian Distributor ) and if I get no where there then I will take it to Epiphone themselfs and see what I can get from there, and really I don't want something to replace this one I would like to have this one fixed and made playable once again.Ship

[teegar]

But with a neck re-set shouldn't that be a warranty problem?

 

Depends on the warranty. Martin will do it (minus the shipping costs). But while a neck set in this case will remedy the problem, a shifted neck angle is not the problem, shifting body geometry is the problem. The set of the neck is probably fine, that is it hasn't changed so much that it is the source of the problem. Bulging belly is the problem, and that can be hard to prove is a result of manufacturing "defect". They can argue humidity issues, or using strings too heavy for the guitar, etc. I'm not saying they're right, just trying to shine a little light on their responses. If you've got the time and the will, give 'em hell and hope for the best. Sometimes persistence and letting them know what a loyal customer you've been can work. Hopefully you're not dealing with some Gibson low-level employee who could give a @#%& about Epiphone. Otherwise, a neck set runs about $200-250.

[Ship of fools]

Seems Canada is not the same as our brethern to the south of us, as you can see from my post I had a problem with my guitar so I took it in anmd they sent it off to the Canadian Distributor Yorkville, Ontario and they denied my claim okay I speak to the local distributor sales rep and he suggests that I talk to Yorkville directly about my situation, did that only to be told that guess what as a Canadian Epiphones warranty only last 1 YEAR, now I know that when I bought the guitar I was not told that but was told it had a life time warranty???????????? so how come when it cross's the border it loses it warranty.

So that means all Epiphones coming across and bought in Canada only carry a 1 YEAR Warranty and I was told unless the guitar fails within a short period of time good luck on Gibson making any warranty repairs for you so I will keep on trying all that they recomend and see where it goes from this point, but looks as if I am on the hook for the repairs, but you will be glad to know that Canadian distributor will just either fix it or replace it with in the 1 year period, looks as if I am going to have to re-evaluate if I ever buy new again, damn shame really as I have been a big fan of Epiphones for a long time and have had the pleasure of owning some real gems from the past, but this is my last one and may not be able to bring it back to life.Ship of SADNESS

[brad1]

Well, if you read the warranty, I think they have you. Not that I agree with it. But look at the whole thing below. Particularly where I have highlighted the text in bold type.

Apparently, once it crosses the border the warranty IS void.

Sorry.

 

Epiphone Limited Lifetime Warranty

 

 

Register your Epiphone product here!

 

Your new Epiphone instrument is warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the original retail purchaser, subject to the limitations contained in this warranty.

 

If at any time this Epiphone instrument malfunctions as a result of faulty materials or workmanship, Epiphone will repair the defect(s) or replace the instrument, as it deems appropriate at its sole discretion. Epiphone reserves the right to use materials regularly utilized at the time of repair in the event that original materials are no longer available. If replacement of your instrument is deemed appropriate by our staff, Epiphone will replace the instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument.

 

In the unlikely event that your instrument is destroyed, lost or damaged beyond repair, while in the possession of Epiphone for repair, Epiphone will replace that instrument with one of the some or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument. Any insurance covering the instrument, including but not limited to collector's value insurance, must be carried by owner at owner's expense.

 

THIS WARRANTY IS EXTENDED TO THE ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASER ONLY AND MAY NOT BE TRANSFERRED OR ASSIGNED TO SUBSEQUENT OWNERS. IN ORDER TO VALIDATE YOUR WARRANTY, AND AS A CONDITION PRECEDENT TO WARRANTY COVERAGE HEREUNDER, YOU MUST RETURN YOUR WARRANTY REGISTRATION CARD WITHIN FIFTEEN (15) DAYS FOLLOWING THE ORIGINAL DATE OF PURCHASE. YOUR PROOF OF PURCHASE OR SALES RECEIPT MUST ACCOMPANY ALL REQUESTS FOR WARRANTY COVERAGE.

 

 

This Warranty Is Subject To The Following Limitations

 

 

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

 

Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.

Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.

Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.

The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.

Shipping damages of any kind.

Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature.

Normal wear and tear (i.e; worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).

Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.

Any factory-installed electronics after a period of one (1) year following the original date of purchase.

EPIPHONE MAKES NO OTHER EXPRESS WARRANTY OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER. ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, EXCEEDING THE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS OF THIS WARRANTY ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED FROM THIS WARRANTY. SOME STATES AND/OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES SO THAT THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

 

EPIPHONE SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR OTHER SIMILAR DAMAGES SUFFERED BY THE PURCHASER OR ANY THIRD PARTY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR BUSINESS OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT, WHETHER IN CONTRACT OR IN TORT, EVEN IF EPIPHONE OR ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND EPIPHONE SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY EXPENSES, CLAIMS, OR SUITS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING.

 

**Customers who purchased product outside the U.S should contact their local distributor for the handling and resolution of all warranty issues as the above-described Gibson Gold Warranty is not applicable.