Epiphone Wiring

[Whitmore Willy]

I just received my parts and will be upgrading my Epi L.E. Special. (2 vol/2 tone) The guitar will probably end up with one of the four basic configurations: Modern, Modern w/independent volumes, 50s or 50s w/independent volumes.

Currently, I have other Epiphones wired modern. One has four audio pots. The other has linear volumes and audio tones.

These I am not concerned with as I know their effects.

I will experiment with the other possibilities using wires, alligator clips and electrical tape.

 

My question for those who have experience with Modern w/independent, 50s and 50s w/independent is:

What audio characteristics have you observed?

 

I have read the DIYs and many other resources. I am not looking for a technical explanation here.

What I am looking for is what you hear. (Especially in the center position)

For instance, I have heard (although I do not know) that independent in the center position can be a tone killer?

 

Please tell me what kind of wiring system you are using. What type of pots (B or A) for volume. Most importantly:

What your audio observations are. (Especially in the center position)

I am not interested in any split coil configurations as I am working with P-90s.

 

I appreciate any comments as they will sharpen my own observations as I experiment.

 

Willy

[RaSTuS]

A pots for vol (linear taper), B for tone (audio taper).

 

I'm having a similar dilema, I'm rewiring (2vol, 2tone, 3-way) a cheap chinese thing at the moment, in the centre position though decreasing the volume on either pot acts on both pickups output simultaneously rather than acting independently and allowing in a mixing/blending of pickup output. I thought this was strange, but then I checked several other guitars and they do the same thing, just that I'd never noticed it before, I don't like this behaviour though.

 

If you find a way to have both volume pots act independently (in mid position) before I do, let me know, of course I'll post here if I can find such a solution.

[animalfarm]

I'm having a similar dilema, I'm rewiring (2vol, 2tone, 3-way) a cheap chinese thing at the moment, in the centre position though decreasing the volume on either pot acts on both pickups output simultaneously rather than acting independently and allowing in a mixing/blending of pickup output. I thought this was strange, but then I checked several other guitars and they do the same thing, just that I'd never noticed it before, I don't like this behaviour though.

 

If you find a way to have both volume pots act independently (in mid position) before I do, let me know, of course I'll post here if I can find such a solution.

 

Your answer lies within the Epi Lounge "DIY Thread", "Guitar Wiring Diagrams" Section:

 

Thread Title and Direct Link:

 

"3-Way Switch in Middle, Turn One Volume down, BOTH Pup outputs go DOWN.

Wanna Know WHY? Also, Independent Volume Control Wiring..."

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php/topic/52411-3-way-switch-in-middle-turn-one-volume-down-both-pup-outputs-go-down-wanna-know-why/page__pid__707012#entry707012

[RaSTuS]

Your answer lies within the Epi Lounge "DIY Thread", "Guitar Wiring Diagrams" Section:

 

Thread Title and Direct Link:

 

"3-Way Switch in Middle, Turn One Volume down, BOTH Pup outputs go DOWN.

Wanna Know WHY? Also, Independent Volume Control Wiring..."

 

http://forum.gibson....012#entry707012

 

Excellent, thanks animalfarm.

[RaSTuS]

Whitmore Willy, I'll try animalfarm's suggestions tomorrow (it's 1am here) and let you know how things go.

 

animalfarm, if it works out as I hope it means I've got about 10 or more guitars I have to modify, darn.

[Whitmore Willy]

RaSTuS,

 

The four basic wiring diagrams have been posted in many places including our forum. This link is external but shows each:

http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/WireLibrary-Gibson.html

It includes the independent volumes.

 

Willy

 

Edit: RaSTuS,

Your reply came as I was writing back. Good luck, I will be looking forward to your report.

[animalfarm]

The four basic wiring diagrams have been posted in many places including our forum.

This link is external but shows each:

 

http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/WireLibrary-Gibson.html

 

It includes the independent volumes.

 

Willy

 

Oooooo, yeah - great link. It's saved, gonna go into DIY. I have a thread

in "Guitar Wiring Diagrams" section that addresses 1950's wiring, but your link ALSO

does, and MORE! It will REPLACE the existing 1950s link, as it is "mo bettah".

 

Gotta grab the Good Info when it pops up!

[RaSTuS]

RaSTuS,

 

The four basic wiring diagrams have been posted in many places including our forum. This link is external but shows each:

http://www.dominocs....ary-Gibson.html

It includes the independent volumes.

 

Willy

 

Edit: RaSTuS,

Your reply came as I was writing back. Good luck, I will be looking forward to your report.

 

Whoo hoo, it works a treat and sounds just as good to me, keeping in mind I got tinitus to the moon, but I cranked it as loud as is polite at 7am and it sounded as good as the conventional wiring IMHO.

 

animalfarm: Thanks again mate, now I gotta attack all my humbucker 2vol_3waySw gits, that'll keep me busy for a week or two, fun, fun, fun.

[Whitmore Willy]

Animalfarm,

 

Always glad to help. Hope it helps others as well.

I normally use Guitarelectronics as reference but they don't have much on vintage 50s or Flying V's.

 

RaSTuS,

 

Happy to hear that all worked out. Thank you for your reply. I am presuming you stayed with the "modern" wiring and just changed over to the independent?

 

Willy

[RaSTuS]

Animalfarm,

 

Always glad to help. Hope it helps others as well.

I normally use Guitarelectronics as reference but they don't have much on vintage 50s or Flying V's.

 

RaSTuS,

 

Happy to hear that all worked out. Thank you for your reply. I am presuming you stayed with the "modern" wiring and just changed over to the independent?

 

Willy

 

Not too sure what modern is, presuming it's pretty much as per SD diagram that animalfarm has in DIY thread (I already had same diagram) and just swapped the wiring on the 1 and 2 posts (input and output) on the vol pots. Hope that helps.

[animalfarm]

I know that this thread has been "accidentally" redirected to how to

do Independent Volume wiring. BUT, that ended up being a GOOD result.

 

So, for the benefit of Mr. Willy, I call attention to Post #1 - He's

looking for those who HAVE done the WIRING MODS he mentions, and what

Tonal differences were noted!

 

Yep.

[RaSTuS]

I know that this thread has been "accidentally" redirected to how to

do Independent Volume wiring. BUT, that ended up being a GOOD result.

 

So, for the benefit of Mr. Willy, I call attention to Post #1 - He's

looking for those who HAVE done the WIRING MODS he mentions, and what

Tonal differences were noted!

 

Yep.

 

Absolutely, that was my intention from the start coz I was trying to acheive independent volumes I figured my experimentation would provide the answers Whitmore Willy was seeking.

 

One side note, I noticed the volumes roll off reasonably quickly in independent wiring, this could be due to the cheap chinese pots and wiring, not sure. I'll be modifying my Tokai SG tomorrow which I know has quality components and I'll be able to make a much more subjective assessment then.

[Whitmore Willy]

I noticed the volumes roll off reasonably quickly in independent wiring, this could be due to the cheap chinese pots and wiring, not sure. I'll be modifying my Tokai SG tomorrow which I know has quality components and I'll be able to make a much more subjective assessment then.

RaSTuS,

 

Thank you. That is what I am interested in along with tonal effects.(particularly in the center position) The quick volume could be due to the linear volume pots in conjunction with the independent wiring.(don't know) When I start my experiments, in about a week, I will try both linear and audio for volume with the independent wiring. I will test with modern and 50s wiring. Should be interesting.

 

Animalfarm,

 

Thank you for the bump. Very kind but, bare in mind that I do not expect many replies.

Remember, I eliminated most replies myself when I stated: I already have the information I needed on "modern" (stock) wiring with both A and B pots in the volume position. Even for those that do upgrades, modern is the wiring configuration that most use.(Probably 95% or more)

I know other members would chime in if they thought they could help.

 

Face it, this is one of the more helpful guitar forums on the net.

When a newb comes in and asks a basic question members usually reply with...."Welcome". They then give the best answer or reference they can. On many forums you will get the equivalent of "Try the search function."

If someone asks for an answer with a lack of input, members just ask for "pics" or more information. I have seen other forums that are much less courteous or just ignore the post.

When someone has a problem, other members often stay with it until it is solved. This sometimes takes considerable effort.

 

As stated, I really didn't expect many replies. This is not a mod that many have made.

 

Willy

[amx05462]

use 250 pots youll find they dont roll off as quick.

[RaSTuS]

Finally got around to modding the Tokai SG, I've had hayfever the last few days.

 

I've attached 8 files of the git before and after the mods, they were recorded using Guitar Rig 2 without any Amp or Cabinet simulations running (clean), all of the pots on the git started on full and only the volume pots were rolled off over aprox 3secs, first sound is an open string strum and the second is open string strum with volume roll-off.

 

EDIT: files are too big to attach, instead follow this link > Sound Samples

[Whitmore Willy]

I've attached 8 files of the git before and after the mods, they were recorded using Guitar Rig 2 without any Amp or Cabinet simulations running (clean), all of the pots on the git started on full and only the volume pots were rolled off over aprox 3secs, first sound is an open string strum and the second is open string strum with volume roll-off.

RaSTuS,

 

Thank you for the files. I have downloaded them and given them a preliminary listen. I'll check them out in more detail over the weekend. I am currently in the middle of a few projects and (sadly) am a little short on time.

I did get a chance to start a couple of tests.

 

I did a basic comparison between the neck roll off in the middle position. I compared the standard setup against the setup after your mods.

Preliminary results:

 

Standard wiring_Middle Position_Neck Roll Off. (wave view):

 

 

Modded wiring_Middle Position_ Neck Roll Off. (wave view):

 

 

Standard wiring_Middle Position_Neck Roll Off. (spectral view):

 

 

Modded wiring_Middle Position_Neck Roll Off. (spectral view)

 

 

As I listened and compared, it sounded to me as though the roll off was more controlled and much smother after your mods.

It also seemed that the tone was effected less during the roll off.

At this point I can not say for sure as I am only listening in front of desktop speakers.

I will be better able to judge when I play them on my studio setup. (500w as opposed to 10w)

After all, the ear is the final judge!

 

Although this is not a controlled experiment (we would have to be together in the same studio) it is a far cry from

"Ya, I did the mods and it sounded good to me."

Thank you for all the time and trouble you must have gone through.

 

Willy

 

Edit: These are the specs under which I am listening:

 

[RaSTuS]

Although this is not a controlled experiment (we would have to be together in the same studio) it is a far cry from

"Ya, I did the mods and it sounded good to me."

 

I thought it easier to record the results rather than trying to subjectively explain any differences, besides which my hearing is pretty shot, tinitus 24/7.