Anyone have a new computer?

[milod]

I'm generally against any "all in one" whether computer, amp or home sound system; the exception being of course a laptop.

 

Yeah, I prefer PC to Mac largely because Mac software is a lot more expensive and, as has been said, upgrading is difficult if not impossible and even so, the closest place for "service" is over an hour's drive away.

 

It frustrates me on occasion when I'm helping Mac-owner friends trying to keep up with new OS variations and software that doesn't work any more.

 

m

[sparky scott 29]

3 years?? Are we supposed to be impressed right about now or later????

I do know us Mac users don't change the os every couple of months or is it a years you guys are up to now on winblows 7??

With the SAME bug that has been it the system since winblows 3.1 I believe.... Yes I am sure of that now......It NEVER came out or was found until just lately....

To just think, all that time without changes big enough to see something so trivial.... Amazing..........

[Jeff-7]

3 years?? Are we supposed to be impressed right about now or later????

I do know us Mac users don't change the os every couple of months or is it a years you guys are up to now on winblows 7??

With the SAME bug that has been it the system since winblows 3.1 I believe.... Yes I am sure of that now......It NEVER came out or was found until just lately....

To just think, all that time without changes big enough to see something so trivial.... Amazing..........

 

/shrug I've been using Windows XP since it came out and have never had an issue. I wasn't impressed with Vista so I've always stuck with XP. And I don't particularly want to shell out money for windows 7 when my OS does perfectly fine. 9 years and no issues so I think it was a success.

[ChanMan]

3 years?? Are we supposed to be impressed right about now or later????

I do know us Mac users don't change the os every couple of months or is it a years you guys are up to now on winblows 7??

With the SAME bug that has been it the system since winblows 3.1 I believe.... Yes I am sure of that now......It NEVER came out or was found until just lately....

To just think, all that time without changes big enough to see something so trivial.... Amazing..........

 

 

We do realize that Win 3.1 and Win7 are based on completely different architectures, right?

I mean... with our obvious expert computer knowledge, I'm sure we didn't overlook something so trivial....

[dem00n]

Dell makes some good comptuers.

For the price of course.

Some people dont like buidling comptuers to.

 

Dell kinda reminds me of Gibson sometimes you know.

[sparky scott 29]

Dell makes some good comptuers.

For the price of course.

Some people dont like buidling comptuers to.

 

Dell kinda reminds me of Gibson sometimes you know.

 

Really?? Wow, that hurts...

And yes I know lots of the OS has changed, but, that said, the same bug followed the OS for many years now. The SAME BUG exactly followed thru all your guy's updates or whatever ya call them...

Nobody found them till just...... That tells me, that pc doesn't really do much in the way of changing, if you get my drift....

Look it up on google if you don't believe me, it's all there for your, or I mean, my reading pleasure...

[milod]

I'm actually still using some 1980s and 90s software on the PC. Still using XP. Yeah, Vista and 7 are very, very different architecture. I tend personally to think 7 is what Vista should have been in the beginning.

 

I haven't been very impressed with the Mac - it's nothing but a modified Unix OS with sufficient variations to screw up older versions of software in a proprietary hardware platform using Intel chips 'stedda the original Motorola and then RISC chips that more or less addressed memory similarly - NEXT with an Apple name and color scheme. Oddly OSX came out after Jobs' party with NEXT. Hmmmm.

 

Yeah, Unix/Mac is okay - and has the advantage that if you're willing to spend what it takes to make it work, it's not as open to certain sorts of Internet nasties. But oddly Apple is now using the same Intel chips that are ... Hmmmm... what the PC is pretty much standardized on. So if one had a PC running Unix... <grin>

 

Actually I stopped building my own computers with the Pentium era.

 

m

[sparky scott 29]

I'm actually still using some 1980s and 90s software on the PC. Still using XP. Yeah, Vista and 7 are very, very different architecture. I tend personally to think 7 is what Vista should have been in the beginning.

 

I haven't been very impressed with the Mac - it's nothing but a modified Unix OS with sufficient variations to screw up older versions of software in a proprietary hardware platform using Intel chips 'stedda the original Motorola and then RISC chips that more or less addressed memory similarly - NEXT with an Apple name and color scheme. Oddly OSX came out after Jobs' party with NEXT. Hmmmm.

 

Yeah, Unix/Mac is okay - and has the advantage that if you're willing to spend what it takes to make it work, it's not as open to certain sorts of Internet nasties. But oddly Apple is now using the same Intel chips that are ... Hmmmm... what the PC is pretty much standardized on. So if one had a PC running Unix... <grin>

 

Actually I stopped building my own computers with the Pentium era.

 

m

 

Yea, actually all the chips are the same. Well NOT ALL, but most. I better say that before someone comes back to that. They are just programmed different these days... I also like Linux....And we are getting a update ourselves called Lion I believe ..

All said, you still don't hear of apples hacked... I have no security at all, except what came with it. If the hackers COULD hack a Mac, you bet everyone would want to be the first one to do it!! They would be famous....

[dem00n]

Yea, actually all the chips are the same. Well NOT ALL, but most. I better say that before someone comes back to that. They are just programmed different these days... I also like Linux....And we are getting a update ourselves called Lion I believe ..

All said, you still don't hear of apples hacked... I have no security at all, except what came with it. If the hackers COULD hack a Mac, you bet everyone would want to be the first one to do it!! They would be famous....

Your kidding me right?

[ChanMan]

Really?? Wow, that hurts...

And yes I know lots of the OS has changed, but, that said, the same bug followed the OS for many years now. The SAME BUG exactly followed thru all your guy's updates or whatever ya call them...

Nobody found them till just...... That tells me, that pc doesn't really do much in the way of changing, if you get my drift....

Look it up on google if you don't believe me, it's all there for your, or I mean, my reading pleasure...

 

 

Then we know that our statement regarding Win 3.1 and Win7 is patently false? What with Win 3.1 still requiring the old 386/486 architecture, not allowing shared memory space and all those other trivial details...

[ChanMan]

Oh, and you are absolutely right, Milo. Win7 IS what Vista should have been.

[sparky scott 29]

Then we know that our statement regarding Win 3.1 and Win7 is patently false? What with Win 3.1 still requiring the old 386/486 architecture, not allowing shared memory space and all those other trivial details...

 

I'm telling you, google it..

I am not B.S. 'ing you. That is a fact about the bug following all the way thru the updates..... I am NOT kidding.

Even though I do not like pc, I am NOT pulling wool over anybody's eyes....

And Yes the Intel chip used by PC and Mac are the same when produced in the plant.

It's afterwards that the change is reprogrammed or whatever term you use for it.

Spend 10 minutes and use google, you will find it, I did a while back..

[tazzboy]

The best place to get PC parts in my opinion is http://www.newegg.com

[milod]

Bottom line on the OSX stuff is that it's just a variation of Unix for Intel chips with a GUI that kinda, sorta, resembles the old Mac OS that was designed for Motorola chips and then redesigned for RISC chips.

 

Actually Unix can be, and is hacked by folks who want to. The thing is that those who wanna be bad boys and girls have more to hack with "PC" platforms.

 

There are, as I understand it, some commonalities of old and newer versions of Windows, but as I understand it, any hacking that could go back to Win 3.1 probably goes deeper into what amounts to DOS and/or what would utilize some code having to do with getting into the registry with a self-replicating "worm" of some sort.

 

m

[sparky scott 29]

Bottom line on the OSX stuff is that it's just a variation of Unix for Intel chips with a GUI that kinda, sorta, resembles the old Mac OS that was designed for Motorola chips and then redesigned for RISC chips.

 

Actually Unix can be, and is hacked by folks who want to. The thing is that those who wanna be bad boys and girls have more to hack with "PC" platforms.

 

There are, as I understand it, some commonalities of old and newer versions of Windows, but as I understand it, any hacking that could go back to Win 3.1 probably goes deeper into what amounts to DOS and/or what would utilize some code having to do with getting into the registry with a self-replicating "worm" of some sort.

 

m

 

I am not saying I know all the answers, What you are saying sounds somewhat of what I heard... Believe me, I am NOT a guru at computers and will be the first person on this whole forum when I say something in error, I WILL always man up to it and admit when I am wrong.

That is a fact Jack... I'm just trying to go on what I read 3 or so months ago... No arguing from me.... So please don't take it that way.

[Tman5293]

I have an alienware, granted it's a couple years old but this thing is a beast.

 

Laptop or desktop?

[ChanMan]

I'm telling you, google it..

I am not B.S. 'ing you. That is a fact about the bug following all the way thru the updates..... I am NOT kidding.

Even though I do not like pc, I am NOT pulling wool over anybody's eyes....

And Yes the Intel chip used by PC and Mac are the same when produced in the plant.

It's afterwards that the change is reprogrammed or whatever term you use for it.

Spend 10 minutes and use google, you will find it, I did a while back..

 

 

Would we be related to NeoConMan, perchance?

 

What with all the "I don't have to provide any proof, just go look it up..." stuff, it just seems a very high likelyhood....

 

Some things we might want to keep in mind:

 

If one is caught using puffery in a testimony, the testimony is considered tainted, and therefore of no use in it's entirety.

 

We do not make our product look better by talking down the competition. It is far better, and more effective, to extoll our product's virtues.

[ChanMan]

Bottom line on the OSX stuff is that it's just a variation of Unix for Intel chips with a GUI that kinda, sorta, resembles the old Mac OS that was designed for Motorola chips and then redesigned for RISC chips.

 

Actually Unix can be, and is hacked by folks who want to. The thing is that those who wanna be bad boys and girls have more to hack with "PC" platforms.

 

There are, as I understand it, some commonalities of old and newer versions of Windows, but as I understand it, any hacking that could go back to Win 3.1 probably goes deeper into what amounts to DOS and/or what would utilize some code having to do with getting into the registry with a self-replicating "worm" of some sort.

 

m

 

 

That was my point, only I didn't provide any details! <g>

 

Nicely done, sir! I'll hear no more "old fogie"-ness from you :)

 

Win 3.1 used autoexec.bat and config.sys along with some other files (win.ini, for example) to initialize the OS. It was based on DOS architecture, and had no security at all.

 

All Windows OSes since Win2k have been built on NT, which is not at all the same platform. Shared memory, Virtual memory... a registry... NTFS.

 

Oh, and Motorola chips were RISC, as opposed to Intel chips which were RISC/CISC. It's the predictability of thread size that gives the RISC based processors their speed advantage.

[sparky scott 29]

http://www.computerw...indows_7_RC_bug

 

http://www.betanews....rsor/1175201875

 

http://www.vistax64....g-annoying.html

 

That's what I found in a matter of 5 minutes looking up the subject.....

The last one said since winblows 95, but I know I read more somewhere else.....

 

this one only goes back to 2003,

http://jeanrapidshar...or-windows.html

Only 2000 this one till now

http://createdigital...-how-to-fix-it/

 

another

http://news.cnet.com...394351-245.html

 

I know if I looked longer I would find the one from 3.1 till and thru Vista, cuz they just found it not that long ago....

Now Want more????? I thought not!!!!!

[milod]

Chan...

 

Actually the original Motorola 68XXX chips were not RISC - that came later and offered the potential of greater speed due to a smaller instruction set for the cpu chip itself.

 

The major advantage of the 68000 compared to the 8XXX Intel cpu is that the chips had a larger and - in theory - simpler addressing for more memory. Back in the 80286 days there was the potential of addressing higher memory, but it functionally was just to hold "stuff" rather than work all that well with much of anything other than as a ram disk.

 

The 386 chip handled that sorta thing better and, as I recall, Win updates could get into some of high memory (over a meg). The real potential for a program to get into memory was roughly the lower 640 k... The rest was housekeeping/bios sorta stuff - at least that's as I remember it from 15-20 years ago.

 

Then Win 95 put everything into a different game and Win could actually figure out how to use bigger memory spaces, longer file names and such.

 

As for Unix machines... It seems like Unix has been ported to about every functional CPU either designed especially for the OS or not. Sun, for example, had its own... Dunno if it still does. The power vs. price of the Intel and "clones" is pretty hard to argue against for biz and personal "work stations." Hmmmm... Off the top of my head I recall "pipelining" as an advantage to Unix software architecture. Problem with Unix always that it was geekish even with what once was called an Xwindows GUI (graphical user interface.)

 

Sheesh... yeah, I think things have changed a lot from when I built my own 8-bit machines and frankly, I've pretty much quit thinking much about the technical side of what makes it work. It's a lot more complex from the olden days even though there are various sorts of hardware and software tricks that do make some things "easy" that would have seemed impossible in the early days of 8 and 16-bit CPU chips.

 

Okay... end my my geeking. <chortle>

 

m

[milod]

Sparky...

 

O.k., I read the piece and technically speaking the "bug" you mentioned isn't part of Windows per se.

 

Long story how that sorta thing works. Ditto when they're talking about ftp "bugs."

 

In a way it's kinda like saying cars with current types of window washers are vulnerable to spiking with finish-damaging materials. It's not really part of the car's functioning systems, but has functionality for the car...

 

BTW, note that those pieces are one to three years old...

 

m

[retrosurfer1959]

Always the same arguments on PC versus Mac and everybody has to decide for themselves which is best for them, I own both kind of like the Gibson vs. Fender question it depends on what I'm doing. But I just retired as the CIO for a pretty large government agency that ran about 3000 computers including a complex mobile vehicle fleet (Public Safety). All that and Dos based but I use Apple at home. A stand alone computer that is not protected by server based virus protection it's just not worth the hassle anymore. I do have a AlienWare Area 51 notebook that runs when I need a non Apple system and it is a solid, fast and very well built machine but it's got nothing performance wise that is any better than my MacBook Pro.

 

For music and graphics no contest the Apple wins hands down windows still has issues with drivers that haven't been fixed for the last several years.

[Shnate McDuanus]

It's not constructive so I'm not going to get into the Mac/PC debate. Regardless of any and all discrepancies between the two, you use what you like and I'll use what I like and we'll deal with both the assets and the vulnerabilities that come with both platforms.

 

I will say that I'm very strongly against the all-in-one form factor, for a very specific reason: ventilation. Certain components need to be properly cooled and ventilated in order to work properly and most efficiently, and when too many components are packed into too small a form factor, it can wreak havoc on the hardware and cause it to fail. My recommendation, and this is regardless of what company puts your machine together or whether or not you do it yourself, and this is regardless of what operating system you use, is to make sure you get what you need in a case that will have enough space for each component, and with proper cooling elements. This is very important for a properly functioning machine, and in simple terms, too cramped a space makes for too hot a machine. That is my problem with the notebook form factor--I use one at school, but I'm very careful with how I use it and I make sure that nothing blocks the vents. There's also the problem, sometimes, of integrated components--components which are hardwired into the mainboard and which cannot be replaced or upgraded. Occasionally, in a small form factor (and this goes for a lot of the components in a laptop/notebook,) components like the CPU, GPU and sound card will be integrated components, and essentially that's not cool.

 

As for operating systems--I use Windows 7 currently on my laptop (out of curiosity--I'm usually not an early adopter by any means) and Windows XP on my laptop at home. Both of them have worked fine for me and whatever vulnerabilities exist on either platform have not yet been exploited by crackers or resulted in full system failure as of yet. My earliest personal computer, which I haven't used in about five years, was an HP laptop, and essentially burst into flames due to poorly-designed hardware (that whole small form-factor thing) and it had a CPU which was outdated when I got it. I am not a fan of Mac OSX, but that's mostly because of software compatibility issues which existed back in the early days of the OS, many of which have been effectively ironed out, and so I would not be completely opposed to using OSX in the future. My only legitimate qualm with it, now, is budget-related (I use OEM parts and software in my computer to save money,) because it is a functional operating system. There's nothing "magical" about it, though, beyond industry hype sold by Apple to gain loyal customers like some of the members on this forum, who swear by it and will not tolerate resistance--e.g. the Borg, for those familiar with the post-TOS Star Trek canon. But I digress--use what you're comfortable with, and if you want to avoid viruses and hacking, then be smart with your usage and don't rely completely on security software as an excuse to be irresponsible.

 

Just as an aside, I will say that one reason why OSX users generally tend to not get viruses happens to be because there are fewer OSX users around than there are Windows users. OSX has vulnerabilities, but they make up a much smaller demographic. Plus Steve Jobs now wants to run Adobe out of business--what the hell is up with that?!

[sparky scott 29]

Sparky...

 

O.k., I read the piece and technically speaking the "bug" you mentioned isn't part of Windows per se.

 

Long story how that sorta thing works. Ditto when they're talking about ftp "bugs."

 

In a way it's kinda like saying cars with current types of window washers are vulnerable to spiking with finish-damaging materials. It's not really part of the car's functioning systems, but has functionality for the car...

 

BTW, note that those pieces are one to three years old...

 

m

 

Well, I did add a couple more sites and I do realize they are older, but, that doesn't stop the fact that it did carry over to the newer OS machines pc uses...

I am NOT trying to argue at all, just trying to put a period on stuff that I read and interrupted the way I saw them, meaning, I saw them the way I did, and seen a pattern with certain bugs following different OS's...

Maybe I am not right, but by no means am I trying to start anything as in mac is great, or windows is bad, one works better than another for different people....

I am just trying to put some stuff I read out there... I would like to find that article where the same bug followed all the way thru most of pc's till as of very late.... I will find it eventually....

This is interesting though, I am learning more as I go. I just took offense when Chanman said about me making things up! I take VERY offense to that........

[sparky scott 29]

It's not constructive so I'm not going to get into the Mac/PC debate. Regardless of any and all discrepancies between the two, you use what you like and I'll use what I like and we'll deal with both the assets and the vulnerabilities that come with both platforms.

 

I will say that I'm very strongly against the all-in-one form factor, for a very specific reason: ventilation. Certain components need to be properly cooled and ventilated in order to work properly and most efficiently, and when too many components are packed into too small a form factor, it can wreak havoc on the hardware and cause it to fail. My recommendation, and this is regardless of what company puts your machine together or whether or not you do it yourself, and this is regardless of what operating system you use, is to make sure you get what you need in a case that will have enough space for each component, and with proper cooling elements. This is very important for a properly functioning machine, and in simple terms, too cramped a space makes for too hot a machine. That is my problem with the notebook form factor--I use one at school, but I'm very careful with how I use it and I make sure that nothing blocks the vents. There's also the problem, sometimes, of integrated components--components which are hardwired into the mainboard and which cannot be replaced or upgraded. Occasionally, in a small form factor (and this goes for a lot of the components in a laptop/notebook,) components like the CPU, GPU and sound card will be integrated components, and essentially that's not cool.

 

As for operating systems--I use Windows 7 currently on my laptop (out of curiosity--I'm usually not an early adopter by any means) and Windows XP on my laptop at home. Both of them have worked fine for me and whatever vulnerabilities exist on either platform have not yet been exploited by crackers or resulted in full system failure as of yet. My earliest personal computer, which I haven't used in about five years, was an HP laptop, and essentially burst into flames due to poorly-designed hardware (that whole small form-factor thing) and it had a CPU which was outdated when I got it. I am not a fan of Mac OSX, but that's mostly because of software compatibility issues which existed back in the early days of the OS, many of which have been effectively ironed out, and so I would not be completely opposed to using OSX in the future. My only legitimate qualm with it, now, is budget-related (I use OEM parts and software in my computer to save money,) because it is a functional operating system. There's nothing "magical" about it, though, beyond industry hype sold by Apple to gain loyal customers like some of the members on this forum, who swear by it and will not tolerate resistance--e.g. the Borg, for those familiar with the post-TOS Star Trek canon. But I digress--use what you're comfortable with, and if you want to avoid viruses and hacking, then be smart with your usage and don't rely completely on security software as an excuse to be irresponsible.

 

Just as an aside, I will say that one reason why OSX users generally tend to not get viruses happens to be because there are fewer OSX users around than there are Windows users. OSX has vulnerabilities, but they make up a much smaller demographic. Plus Steve Jobs now wants to run Adobe out of business--what the hell is up with that?!

Wouldn't you think if somebody hacked a Mac, they would to to prove to everybody it can be done?

Sure, I know it is just a matter of time before somebody does it, but the first person will be famous for doing it...

Adobe, well that a whole new ballgame. I can see both sides to that, and that is an argument I'm not getting into, cause who is right??? Both? Either?? I see both sides, I've heard both arguments, some I agree, some I don't. I just don't think one company should have all the power over all the OS's that are made. It should be up to the company to determine if they want to use it or not.

I don't see how a company with a small share of the market, what 5-10 % of the desktops can hurt a company as big as Adobe??

I agree, both work the way you want them to, no arguing that no more. It wasn't my beef from the get go.