Country music and Gibsons

[Californiaman]

Regarding the original post, I enjoy playing country music on my ES-175. Milod, you have a 175, what do you think?

[dcooper830]

I play a LOT of country gigs.

 

I love country music! I love Les Pauls!!

 

(I love Teles too)

 

I play my Les Pauls (SGs and Teles) on my country gigs all the time.

[milod]

I think the 175 is the most versatile guitar around in ways. It's a wonderful design.

 

It, and its bigger cousins, got a lot of use in country in the "olden days."

 

The one real weakness to the 175, IMHO, is that it seems to take a long time to temper, temperature-wise, in the winter at various gigs. It seems to go out of tune much more rapidly under those circumstances, even in a warm Jeep going an hour or so into a "hall" of some sort - or even from the house to a theater stage.

 

That's frankly why, as I'm back to playing out a bit more again, I got the Dot. It's less sensitive to that sorta weather thing. And, I've gotta admit, I'd rather take it than my "baby" into a saloon or drive somewhere in a blizzard with her.

 

I think the 175 will do about anything you want in terms of sound. It doesn't quite get the Tele twang, but it can give a semi-acoustic-electric sorta sound for country blues quite well. Again, a lot depends on the amplifier, but the guitar will do anything I really want it to do, although the Dot is a leeeetle more comfortable above the 9th fret or so but feels like it has a narrower nut just because of the differences in how I hold the two instruments. It's me, not the guitars.

 

But again, very seriously, I think anyone sounds better with a guitar they're most comfortable with than a guitar they think has the expected "sound" for a given audience. I've ended up concluding I'll play my best on a guitar I really like - and the devil with what others might think.

 

.... RE: Jack Benny...

 

It was my first year covering a big traditional annual show. Jack was there, Skitch Henderson who then ran the "Tonight Show" band on TV and Bobby Vinton. I got to hang backstage a bunch during that thing, too. I was the acting city editor at 21 on a small daily and ended up with the job regularly later that fall. Dumbest thing I ever did was go full time on a newspaper 'stedda finishing school.

 

Jack was a pretty old guy at the time, which is why a late breakfast interview.

 

He was the picture of an "old pro" who'd done it all. He paced himself to get enough rest and decent nutrition so he could do his shows with as much energy as remained in the body. He was a nice guy but it was awfully difficult to bridge roughly a 60-year age gap.

 

Edit: Cali man - tried to send an IM and it won't go to you... Full mailbox for the forum?

 

m

[DanvillRob]

Well...

 

<blush>

 

I've gotta admit it was something I won't forget - and that was a long, long time ago.

 

And it was a lot more fun than the interview with Jack Benny over breakfast the day after I watched his monologue show on enemas. No kidding.

 

m

 

 

Well it hadda be... she died like 30+ years ago!

 

Talk about C&W Royalty......

[milod]

Rob...

 

Yupper to long time ago. Mid '60s.

 

Heck, I even did a short interview and had a little BS session with Kitty Wells. <chortle>

 

But yeah, Mother Maybelle was more than special in my book. Nothing at all against Johnny, but she made a far bigger impression on me than he did, and he was three times the size and remains far better known.

 

In another life, perhaps another universe... especially after hearing Johnny's version of "Hurt" in his literal old age... Perhaps I'll have the privilege of jammin' with both of 'em and June and Luther and...

 

m

[DanvillRob]

Well yeah.... some mighta heard of Johnny....

 

Kitty, eh? She'll forever be recognized for "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angles" in answer to Hank Thompson's "Wild Side Of Life", (a song I've done for 30+ years!).

[TommyK]

Yeah, it was a joke....

 

The wife has met them, Flatt and Scruggs. You don't live in these parts that you don't run into a veritable who's who of musical stars.

 

She meet them recently?

[TommyK]

I went to the San Francisco bluegrass festival (I know - sounds like an oxymoron) which is a free festival held every October in Golden Gate Park. I saw so much talent and not only banjo but guitar, fiddle, etc., shredding and it was so unbelievably good. Many times I see musicians just showing off and I call it musical mast...forget it, but I often think untasteful. Not that show. To one of M's points, almost every artist gave thanks to those that influenced them. Really cool.

 

Strange as it may seem Frisco is THE place for it. Apparently, Bluegrass had a HUGE following in the bay area back in the 'free love' era. Yup, Hippies LOVED Bluegrass. They say David 'Stringbean' Akeman was quite popular. I guess because Bluegrass was so visceral, real and organic.

[TommyK]

Hey, Chan...

 

All I can do now is grin.

 

I actually had a chance to play Mother Maybelle's big old Gibson F hole. "Mapes extra heavy streeangs," she said. Sheesh, I was playing a lotta 12 string at the time and I wasn't man enough to play Wildwood Flower on her machine.

 

She sez, "Oh, you know Carter Family music?" after I muffed it a bunch.

 

"Of course," sez I.

 

So she runs me into the other dressing room to meet Luther Perkins.

 

This was soon after Johnny married June. The agent told my publisher to have the reporter "be careful with Johnny."

 

Both came and told me. Then the editor told me. Needless to say, I wasn't the oldest reporter in the joint. But Mother Maybelle turned out to the what amounted to an ace in the hole.

 

She introduces me to this giant guy that put a crick in my neck looking up at. "Johnny, this is the reporter from the newspaper here, and he plays guitar and knows Carter Family music..."

 

He smiled and the rest was no worries. Heck, I don't even remember the rest. But I surely remember that real smile and graciousness of Maybelle Carter. And those piano wires she called guitar strings.

 

m

 

You meet Mother Maybelle? and Johnny? and June? and Luther?

Man oh man oh man, I wanna shake your hand. So I can say, "I shook the hand what shook the hand... what played THE guit tar."

 

I suspect the 'crick in your neck' was a hint as to why you needed to be careful with Johnny. I knowed he had problems with medications and had cleaned up, thanks to the Carter Family. I understand he was a nice guy. But I don't think I'd want to cross him within his roundhouse. I suspect he had a pretty good reach.

 

Pianner wires, eh?

 

This is my favorite video of Mother Maybelle. At about 3:10 in Johnny comes over while Maybelle is pickin and appears to be offerin' suggestions as to how she should be pickin' it. The "Step off boy, I'm old enough to have changed your diapers. And if you don't watch it I'll tan yer hide right here," look is priceless.

 

[milod]

Yeah... about Johnny. Also, a friend of mine said he was JC's roommate in the military in Germany while Johnny was getting into pickin'. Said he was a nice kid.

 

But I know where he came from, too... I lived in Memphis 8 years and usually was in Little Rock a day a week or so on average. Especially in the age group, including mine, a bit of fisticuffs was not discouraged by society in rural areas in those days for youngsters. Heck, I remember teachers watching just to make sure things remained pretty even before breaking things up.

 

There was functionally no respect for a kid who wouldn't stand up for himself. Even what nowadays are called "geeks" were often considered as tough as anybody. A boy who didn't stand up for himself got no respect even from teachers. Girls didn't "fight" much in those days, though. Now it seems the boys are tossed outa school but the girls are encouraged. I don't understand it myself. It's a different world.

 

But... even though most rural kids had, or had access to firearms, they'd never think of using them 'stedda their hands. Nowadays we toss kids from school of fisticuffs and yet... Sheesh. I think I preferred the older culture, myself.

 

But yeah, Johnny looked to me like he could hunt bear with a stick. Me, I need something with a bit more powerful than my arms offer, and certainly did in those days at 140 pounds... <grin>

 

m

[Tman]

Yeah... about Johnny. Also, a friend of mine said he was JC's roommate in the military in Germany while Johnny was getting into pickin'. Said he was a nice kid.

 

But I know where he came from, too... I lived in Memphis 8 years and usually was in Little Rock a day a week or so on average. Especially in the age group, including mine, a bit of fisticuffs was not discouraged by society in rural areas in those days for youngsters. Heck, I remember teachers watching just to make sure things remained pretty even before breaking things up.

 

There was functionally no respect for a kid who wouldn't stand up for himself. Even what nowadays are called "geeks" were often considered as tough as anybody. A boy who didn't stand up for himself got no respect even from teachers. Girls didn't "fight" much in those days, though. Now it seems the boys are tossed outa school but the girls are encouraged. I don't understand it myself. It's a different world.

 

But... even though most rural kids had, or had access to firearms, they'd never think of using them 'stedda their hands. Nowadays we toss kids from school of fisticuffs and yet... Sheesh. I think I preferred the older culture, myself.

 

But yeah, Johnny looked to me like he could hunt bear with a stick. Me, I need something with a bit more powerful than my arms offer, and certainly did in those days at 140 pounds... <grin>

 

m

 

Great stories M, man you've met some humdingers (to use the vernacular). You also nailed it with respect to fighting etc., although things started to change in the 70s. Was once right next to a guy that was pushing some other guy as a fight started who pulled a revolver out of his pocket at high school.

I grew up in Jacksonville (dad was Air Force) in the 60s and 70s and we learned about Arkansas country music stars in Arkansas history. Glen Campbell, Johnny Cash, Conway Twitty etc. When I started playing guitar in the early 70s though I distinctly remember thinking that Gibson's and the Stratocaster were rock guitars and Fender tele's (Buck Owens etc) were definitely country. That's why I made the original post on this thread, I was genuinely surprised. As someone said, Country has evolved and has a lot more varied influences thus the bigger variations of guitars. Makes sense.

[milod]

As for Teles being "country..."

 

Yeah, later on. Buck Owens and Haggard and stuff...

 

But in the 50s and earlier 60s there were a lotta hollows. A lotta them wore a Gibson nameplate. I remember one country guy I knew who was regionally popular who loved the heck out of his Fender Jaguar. Didn't care for the Tele at all, or the Strat; thought his Jag could grow legs and walk on water.

 

As for little boys fighting in school... Nowadays we don't let 'em fight, we just drug 'em up with prescription stuff so they're more like little girls usta be; and we encourage little girls to be more physically aggressive through sports etc. As I said, I don't really understand it. Of course, coming from a rural area I was used to very strong females too - they just tended to act like ladies when they weren't tossing bales or whatever.

 

As for guitars... I think the 60s made some radical changes in what guitars folks used for different stuff - and got folks thinking that "this is for this and that is for that." I much prefer the idea of "I love this guitar because it's comfortable and I play it better than other designs," and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

m

[charlie brown]

As for little boys fighting in school... Nowadays we don't let 'em fight, we just drug 'em up with prescription stuff so they're more like little girls usta be; and we encourage little girls to be more physically aggressive through sports etc. As I said, I don't really understand it. Of course, coming from a rural area I was used to very strong females too - they just tended to act like ladies when they weren't tossing bales or whatever.

 

 

That point, is interesting. When I lived in LA (30 years), I didn't see one "bar fight!"

Now, that may have been because I just wasn't in one, when it happened. They just did

"Drive by's!" ;>b But, since I've been back home, in Kansas, where I grew up...I've seen 5!

They were All started by Women!! And, were far more agressive, and violent/bloody, than any by men.

I too, was used to strong minded women, and was raised by one, as well. But, they had a lot

more "class," even in the bars, than what I've seen lately. And, little boys (who aren't drugged)

nowadays, seem not to fight so much, as to kill everything in sight...sometimes, in pairs! It's

hard to laugh, and throw your arm around someone, that minutes ago, you had a fight with, usually

over nothing, when you've killed them all. For all the things that go right, nowadays, there are

some really terrible things, that seem to go very wrong, a lot more often, than when I was in High

School. Is that "progress???!"

 

And, no...I'm not a violent person, as a rule...I much prefer getting my frustrations out, via song writing, or playing guitar! Much healthier,

and a lot more enjoyable. Telecaster, or not! ;>)

 

 

CB

[Tman]

That point, is interesting. When I lived in LA (30 years), I didn't see one "bar fight!"

Now, that may have been because I just wasn't in one, when it happened. They just did

"Drive by's!" ;>b But, since I've been back home, in Kansas, where I grew up...I've seen 5!

They were All started by Women!! And, were far more agressive, and violent/bloody, than any by men.

I too, was used to strong minded women, and was raised by one, as well. But, they had a lot

more "class," even in the bars, than what I've seen lately. And, little boys (who aren't drugged)

nowadays, seem not to fight so much, as to kill everything in sight...sometimes, in pairs! It's

hard to laugh, and throw your arm around someone, that minutes ago, you had a fight with, usually

over nothing, when you've killed them all. For all the things that go right, nowadays, there are

some really terrible things, that seem to go very wrong, a lot more often, than when I was in High

School. Is that "progress???!"

 

And, no...I'm not a violent person, as a rule...I much prefer getting my frustrations out, via song writing, or playing guitar! Much healthier,

and a lot more enjoyable. Telecaster, or not! ;>)

 

 

CB

 

Great post. I've never seen women fight other than TV, only men, twice, and both in Marin County in the last 15 years. My Mom, a WWII surviver from France (a lot of her stories are unbelievable in most of our worlds) was very strong and regularly kicked my butt when I needed it (often), but doesn't drink and would never make a spectacle, as she would say, in public. I'm with you, would rather take it out on my guitar, even if I break a string.

[milod]

Actually when I was a "kid," fighting at a dance was pretty much part of the recreational fun. It wasn't nasty stuff as such. I know of two farm kids who went to a dance and were disappointed there weren't any good group fights to get into.

 

En route home both were cussin' the lousy dance and decided that, what the heck, at least they could have a little fun on their own. So... outa the pickup; fisticuffs along the gravel rural road until they figured it was enough fun, got back in the pickup, had another (illegal because of their age) beer, and headed home.

 

I got a kick out of former "folk/country rock" and "cowboy" singer songwriter Ian Tyson introducing kinda a western swing version of "Blue Moon" noting that it was the song that came before the fight broke out in the dance hall. Yup. Seen it. <grin> But it was almost as if it were part of the dance and generally a lot less dangerous than playing high school football.

 

I dunno. Most bar fights I've seen in this part of the country were pretty much along the same spirit. A cupla times 30+ years ago when I played country regularly in this one bar, there'd occasionally be a tussle on the dance floor when one guy didn't like the way another guy was dancing with his wife/girlfriend. But it was pretty tame stuff and nobody ever got hurt worse than playing softball.

 

In those days I never saw women fighting in saloons. I do know of one big farm girl who got pretty angry at the juke box in one joint, picked it up and threw it through the window. No kidding. I couldn't have lifted the thing if I wanted to.

 

m

[Tman]

Actually when I was a "kid," fighting at a dance was pretty much part of the recreational fun. It wasn't nasty stuff as such. I know of two farm kids who went to a dance and were disappointed there weren't any good group fights to get into.

 

En route home both were cussin' the lousy dance and decided that, what the heck, at least they could have a little fun on their own. So... outa the pickup; fisticuffs along the gravel rural road until they figured it was enough fun, got back in the pickup, had another (illegal because of their age) beer, and headed home.

 

I got a kick out of former "folk/country rock" and "cowboy" singer songwriter Ian Tyson introducing kinda a western swing version of "Blue Moon" noting that it was the song that came before the fight broke out in the dance hall. Yup. Seen it. <grin> But it was almost as if it were part of the dance and generally a lot less dangerous than playing high school football.

 

I dunno. Most bar fights I've seen in this part of the country were pretty much along the same spirit. A cupla times 30+ years ago when I played country regularly in this one bar, there'd occasionally be a tussle on the dance floor when one guy didn't like the way another guy was dancing with his wife/girlfriend. But it was pretty tame stuff and nobody ever got hurt worse than playing softball.

 

In those days I never saw women fighting in saloons. I do know of one big farm girl who got pretty angry at the juke box in one joint, picked it up and threw it through the window. No kidding. I couldn't have lifted the thing if I wanted to.

 

m

 

Well in the early 70s a girl named Mary just had her hair done . I made the mistake of messing with her hair - she landed a punch because she had just had it done. She picked up a dirt clod and chunked it right at me and scored. Precurser for what you guys are talking about.

[TommyK]

Bring a gun to school? Are you kidding me? Dad will kill me, then ground me until I'm 50! then kick my mother lovin' arse all the way to the cemetary and back. I honestly believe they, no we, ought to let boys settle disputes like we did in the 50's and 60's. It wasn't unusual to have a P.E. teacher have the two belligerents put on the gloves and go a few rounds. As a matter of fact my dad was one such belligerent. His foe, back in the day, is now one of his best friends from high school. They always kid each other about their 'fight' when they see each other.

 

In middle school one of my boys had a suspension for being stupid in the P.E. locker room, not fighting or anything, but he deserved a day out of school. We had a sit down with the principal. The school had a genuine problem with the behavior of boys, in P.E. especially. There was no male P.E. teacher. Once they got into the locker room, absolutely no supervision. They had a couple male teachers, but they didn't 'do' P.E. The principal was a single woman.

 

I asked her point blank, "Do you want to know how to control boys?" With an 'Oh God Yes' look on her face she said, "Absolutely." I told her she had to make them all responsible to and for each other. When I was in school, our P.E. teacher had rules to abide by. One day a couple of boys broke one of those rules and the entire class had to do calisthenics for three days straight. He didn't tell us why, we just did it. On the third day, someone asked why the other classes were playing basketball and we were doing calisthenics. He said, "When the screwing around stops and the rules are followed, we will play basketball." He was no taller than 5'2", but no one messed with him. We all knew who the ones were who screwed around and broke the rules making us all do boring calisthenics. After school, it was taken care of. While I don't think it involved fisticuffs, there might have been a couple lapels ruffled. And the malefactors didn't misbehave again.

 

Aghast and horrified my son's principal said, "Oh you can't do that!"

 

She really does not have a clue.

[DanvillRob]

 

I asked her point blank, "Do you want to know how to control boys?" With an 'Oh God Yes' look on her face she said, "Absolutely." I told her she had to make them all responsible to and for each other. When I was in school, our P.E. teacher had rules to abide by. One day a couple of boys broke one of those rules and the entire class had to do calisthenics for three days straight. He didn't tell us why, we just did it. On the third day, someone asked why the other classes were playing basketball and we were doing calisthenics. He said, "When the screwing around stops and the rules are followed, we will play basketball." He was no taller than 5'2", but no one messed with him. We all knew who the ones were who screwed around and broke the rules making us all do boring calisthenics. After school, it was taken care of. While I don't think it involved fisticuffs, there might have been a couple lapels ruffled. And the malefactors didn't misbehave again.

 

 

I like the way that PE teacher thought....it's exactly what they did in boot camp.... someone mouthed off behind the DI's, (Drill Instructor), back. He simply put us all in the "Dying Cockroach" position 'til the guilty party admitted it was him. Never again did anyone mouth off to Sgt. Lohr!

 

BTW... we used to bring our .22's to school as we had target practice after school!

[TommyK]

I like the way that PE teacher thought....it's exactly what they did in boot camp.... someone mouthed off behind the DI's, (Drill Instructor), back. He simply put us all in the "Dying Cockroach" position 'til the guilty party admitted it was him. Never again did anyone mouth off to Sgt. Lohr!

 

BTW... we used to bring our .22's to school as we had target practice after school!

 

I'll be sorry.... Okay, what is the 'Dying Cockroach' positon?

 

In our children's school the principal was a bit of a nut. He tried to suspend a kid from school for bringing a fire-arm. This is a rural community and the boy drove the pick-up truck and parked it in the school's parking lot. The Principal found a pellet gun in the behind-the-cab tool box. Closed up, but not locked. It was used on the farm to dispatch disease carrying rodents. The principal went through his truck.... legal?.... yes. He is not a law enforcement officer and as such does not need a search warrant. I really don't recall if the boy got suspended.

[milod]

I'll never forget the fall of the year I was a sophomore in HS. Lots of stories along those lines but one that's germane to this conversation is the principal's announcement over the school PA system during pheasant season.

 

"There has been someone seen looking into vehicles around the school this morning, we believe possibly to steal something. Everyone who has a shotgun in their vehicle should go get it now and bring it into the school."

 

Dozens of kids headed out and came trooping back into the principal's office to drop off their guns.

 

Nobody was worried about the kids; nobody was worried about the firearms. The concern was for criminals and criminal behavior. Gee, what a strange thought.

 

m

[DanvillRob]

I'll be sorry.... Okay, what is the 'Dying Cockroach' positon?

 

 

 

Lay on your back... arms and legs up, wiggling them all about..... try it...you'll find after a short time, it's TOUGH to do over any period of time!

[TommyK]

Yup, I'm sorry I asked.

 

 

When I was in the 6th grade, the girls were all called down the hall for a 'special meeting' with the local nurse. About what, we had no clue. :unsure: We assumed it was about using perfume as most girls... no all girls stinked. Before we could protest their getting out of class the Principal called all the boys to his office for our 'special meeting.'

 

It was about pocket knives. He explained that the school did not have a ban on carrying of pocket knives. He also knew that the responsibility of carrying a pocket knife was a right of passage for our community. Bloody heck, 90 percent of us had a Barlow in our pocket. He went on to say that while we were in school we had no need for a knife during school hours and that they had best be kept in our pocket. Finally, if desks began to show signs of carving there would be a ban imposed. (see how he made us all responsible for and to each other). End of discussion.

 

I knew not to misuse my pocket knife for carving desks and such, because if I did, my dad would kill me, ground me until I was 50, then kick my arse all the way to the cemetery and back.

 

No one, I mean no one, carved on a desk, nor had their pocket knife out at school... ever. But we all had one.

[Tman]

Yup, I'm sorry I asked.

 

 

When I was in the 6th grade, the girls were all called down the hall for a 'special meeting' with the local nurse. About what, we had no clue. :unsure: We assumed it was about using perfume as most girls... no all girls stinked. Before we could protest their getting out of class the Principal called all the boys to his office for our 'special meeting.'

 

It was about pocket knives. He explained that the school did not have a ban on carrying of pocket knives. He also knew that the responsibility of carrying a pocket knife was a right of passage for our community. Bloody heck, 90 percent of us had a Barlow in our pocket. He went on to say that while we were in school we had no need for a knife during school hours and that they had best be kept in our pocket. Finally, if desks began to show signs of carving there would be a ban imposed. (see how he made us all responsible for and to each other). End of discussion.

 

I knew not to misuse my pocket knife for carving desks and such, because if I did, my dad would kill me, ground me until I was 50, then kick my arse all the way to the cemetery and back.

 

No one, I mean no one, carved on a desk, nor had their pocket knife out at school... ever. But we all had one.

 

Great story! Especially the part about what your Dad would do. In our school in the 60's there were 2 things about every desk in the school that you could absolutely count on: Underneath each there was a mixture of gum and boogers and on top, there was a carving of some sort. (Hope I didn't offend anyone, made me nauseated just thinking about it).

[DanvillRob]

Great story! Especially the part about what your Dad would do. In our school in the 60's there were 2 things about every desk in the school that you could absolutely count on: Underneath each there was a mixture of gum and boogers and on top, there was a carving of some sort. (Hope I didn't offend anyone, made me nauseated just thinking about it).

 

 

Only when you think back to the idea that you ate lunch there!

[TommyK]

Great story! Especially the part about what your Dad would do. In our school in the 60's there were 2 things about every desk in the school that you could absolutely count on: Underneath each there was a mixture of gum and boogers and on top, there was a carving of some sort. (Hope I didn't offend anyone, made me nauseated just thinking about it).

 

Shoulda seen the underside of the local malt shop tables. absolutely 135% coverage with half-chawed gum. Some had been there, I'm sure, since the Eisenhower admin. Yish! :-&