What is a "new" Epi Les Paul?

[Guest CheapShoes]

Guru's please fill me in. I've read a lot about Epi PUs and looking for some confirmation. No to mention what actual data does anyone have for these statements below - or just pure speculation?

 

(1) I keep reading how the older Epi's pickups were bad (heavily potted and whatever else was wrong) and they earned a bad reputation for the whole line, yet conversely, the newer Epi PUs are vastly improved decent PUs. Well, given that Epi LPs appear to have been made for decades in different factories all over the globe - at what break point is an Epi a "newer" type? 1995? 2000? 2005? 2010? Does this change in PU date hold true across all factories simultaneously?

(2) I've also read that the newer "improved" PUs are "Designed by Gibson", and do have an obvious sticker to that point. The PUs in my EE07 LP Std from China do not have the all important DBG sticker, but state 57CH and HOTCH.

(4) lastly, several people swear that removing the cover changes that muddy Epi PU into a very bright PAF PU. Really? I think it would be just be a mess with all that potting drying out and flying around and no protection for the coils. If true a non-magnetic cover should have little effect on tone unless really close to the coils, so maybe there is something alse going with removing the cover.

[dcooper830]

I see a lot of people say the stock Epiphone pickups are not good.

 

But I think they're just saying it cause everyone else says it.

 

I really love their stock pickups. I think they sound GREAT! The only difference is .... they don't have quite the high end clarity of Gibson pickups (Burstbuckers and 57 Classics), or other top brands, but they still wonderful tone quality and adequate clarity.

 

Here's some clips I've done of Epiphones with their stock pickups:

 

 

 

 

I have a bunch more if you're interested. They're all up on my YouTube channel.

 

And I think removing the covers will give you slightly more high end clarity. But then you'll have to get all that wax off of 'em.

 

I don't think it's worth it. Just turn the treble up on your amp a notch or two if you need more highs.

[bonzoboy]

All of my humbucker equipped Epis sound just great as a matter of fact my daughter's boyfriend likes the sound and feel of my G-400 Custom(3 pup SG bodied Les Paul with gold hardware)much more than his Gibson SG,he says that it's a better guitar in every way and that the pups are much hotter.Even my Gibson Les Paul playing buddies are amazed by my G-400 Custom.

[Tuiblue]

I don't have reference material for you to ponder, or scientific proof, but listen to this clip, and judge for yourself.

 

Just an Epi Custom Les Paul thru a small Bugera V-5 tube amp.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTXeRNBTJu4

 

You will notice that this is an open coil setup, so you will have to judge for yourself if there is any significant difference to your ear. I don't want covers on these pups.

 

There are great Epi Guitars out there, and yes, there are crappola Gibson guitars out there. It's up to each of us to discern the good from the bad, and keep an open mind while doing so.

[antwhi2001]

The discussion never ends about whether the old ones were better than the new ones, and which factories are best...there isn't any pattern and you can't generalise. I've owned about 10 Epis now from 4 different factories.

 

We all fixate on the pups, but they are only part of the chain. They vary from batch to batch, and they go in guitars with potentiometers and capacitors which vary from batch to batch. Then we plug them into the most important component in the chain, the amp/speaker. If we don't like the tone we blame the pups...

 

You'll find Epi pups marked 57CH and HOTCH in loads of different models made in several countries going back about 20 years. You can't say with any certainty that some are "better" than others. With a decent amp they are all good. Upgrading pots and caps is cheaper than switching pups and can improve tone, but I've stopped switching pups in Epis. The stock pups are fine for classic rock, which is my thing.

 

Is there something you don't like about your tone?

[mbrooks0711]

+1 on Peter's reply. You've got to be your own judge. Forums help a lot of situations, but a lot of times you will get a guy or girl saying the pickups from X-guitars suck. More times than not, this is because they are playing said guitar through a 10w Line 6 Spider Amp on the death-metal setting and complaining about "clarity". I've got 3 Epi's from 3 different factories and 3 different years (oldest 2001, newest 2007) and they are all great guitars, right from stock.

 

And I totally love the 1. 2. 4. reference. Reminds me of the Holy Hand Grenade from Monty Python.

[DennisMiller]

We all fixate on the pups, but they are only part of the chain. They vary from batch to batch, and they go in guitars with potentiometers and capacitors which vary from batch to batch. Then we plug them into the most important component in the chain, the amp/speaker. If we don't like the tone we blame the pups...

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

And Pete.R nailed it for me when he said it only matters if it sounds good, looks good and feels good. I will admit though, that it took me a bit of time to get over being a brand snob. Having money will do that sometimes. Having not worked in a while now, I have discovered some wonderful guitars exist that were there all the time and I just didn't pay attention. Oh well, I figure I'm just lucky I didn't stay dumb forever.

 

My current humbucker guitar is a Gibson Les Paul Standard Satin, (brown), with the Burstbuckers. It's like having three guitars, depending which of two amps I play it through. (Keeping in mind I only play at home, so my amps are small) It has a totally different personality through my Fender Pro Junior, which is really my favorite amp, than through the clean or dirty channels of my Marshall 15 watt job.

 

Being 61 with country and folk influences, it's probably pretty obvious I don't have much use for the dirtier Marshall tones, but even on the clean channel with no levels up but volume, that LP is still a much warmer sounding guitar than through the Pro junior under similar settings.

 

I am currently in the market for something along the lines of an Epi Dot. I love the tonal variance I hear in hollow body guitars. How it sounds through a small amp at the store, a Pro Junior if they have on out on the floor, is what will determine the right guitar for me. I know I'll be attracted by the 335's on the wall and I can afford them, but at this stage, I think an Epi will suit me just fine.

 

That brings up a question I'd love to hear everyone chime in on... (Are you getting the impression from the length of this post that I don't have anything to do today? RIGHT!!!

 

At fairly low household volumes, do you really hear much difference between good humbuckers and cheap humbuckers?

 

Personally, I don't. Yes, I do when I turn things up, but I don't have the opportunity to do that ever, just once in a while for the hell of it at home. I don't find the personality of humbuckers really comes out until they are played at higher volumes.

 

Single coils, on the other hand, seem to show their personalities at much lower volumes and I hear big differences between crap singles like a really cheap Asian Strat copy might have opposed to decent Alnico coils like my American Strat has... (Delta Tones)

 

And all this goes with a grain of salt, props given to the need for decent pots, caps and switches.

 

Anyone else hear a difference in quality like that?

[DennisMiller]

And BTW DCooper... nice noodling on those videos...

[bigneil]

I see a lot of people say the stock Epiphone pickups are not good.

 

But I think they're just saying it cause everyone else says it.

 

I really love their stock pickups. I think they sound GREAT! The only difference is .... they don't have quite the high end clarity of Gibson pickups (Burstbuckers and 57 Classics), or other top brands, but they still wonderful tone quality and adequate clarity.

 

Here's some clips I've done of Epiphones with their stock pickups:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a bunch more if you're interested. They're all up on my YouTube channel.

 

And I think removing the covers will give you slightly more high end clarity. But then you'll have to get all that wax off of 'em.

 

I don't think it's worth it. Just turn the treble up on your amp a notch or two if you need more highs.

 

After watching these videos, i have to say i thought the Gibby sounded better...much better. There was more meat and power behind it, and yet more clarity at the same time. whether it is just the pick-ups, or whether it is the rest of the electrics, or a combination, or some other factor, i can't tell. ....

Damn! i wanted the Epi to sound the same or better

 

Nice playing

[Guest CheapShoes]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Great clips DCooper

 

For classic rock I thought the stock Epi LP PUs were good and sold me on the guitar (bought it used at GC), and sounded better as the amp was turned up. After bringing home and playing quieter jams with others, I (and my buddies) was dissapointed in how they sounded set to clean. Didn't sound good in the mix. I've since swapped out the LP PUs for a BurstPRO and a Fralin PAF, and am happier with the tone for clean and/or at lower volume settings. Admittingly, likely 50% of the "problem" was just the LP tone that I wasn't used to, and not adjusting the amp to compensate, but the new PUs, especially the Fralin do sound good. Was that too much cash for some new PUs? - in hindsight, yes absolutely - i'm not a professional player and didn't have my head on straight laying out that kind of cash for a hobby. I could be off base, but it seems to me that PUs consist of about $1.50 worth of wire, magnets, and wax, with no moving parts or electronic chips, and long since off patent. No reason they should cost more than $10-20 each, with plenty of spread for the Mfr and retailer. Just say'in. :-"

 

Well... what's done is done, but found myself wondering what's the diff between the "new" and "old" Epi PUs, and how does one know which ones you have anyway. I may move them to an ESP/LTD or Schecter that I would primarily use for 70s/80s rock (existing PUs sound good, but uber distort too easily). I also recognize there is little ability to predict how PUs will sound in another guitar...

[bobouz]

FWIW, I've heard it said a number of times that Epi's P90s were improved around 2003, and that their P90s in general hold their own quite well when compared to other brands. Of course, all of this is incredibly subjective, as noted above. Also agree that this one component (the pickup), by no means tells the final story in your sound. That job, more than anything else, is left to your amp & speaker.