Epi Dot - Starting to buzz on the first few frets

[MediaMan]

I been practing/playing the Epi Dot a lot more than usual lately and now I suddenly notice a lot more buzzing (Frets 1 to 5) than usual. Sure enough when I look at the strings, the action is a lot lower than I recall.

 

What is causing this?

 

- are the strings grinding their way down into a poor quality nut?

- does the neck need a setup/torgue adjustment? Its brand new and was setup properly in October

- is the neck warping?

 

I have no issues bringing it to my dealer (he encourages me to do so for any issues - an advantage of smaller stores where they know your name when you walk in) - would just like a heads up as to what might be causing it and what a good solution might be.

 

Thanks.

[Magneezo]

I been practing/playing the Epi Dot a lot more than usual lately and now I suddenly notice a lot more buzzing (Frets 1 to 5) than usual. Sure enough when I look at the strings, the action is a lot lower than I recall.

 

What is causing this?

 

- are the strings grinding their way down into a poor quality nut?

- does the neck need a setup/torgue adjustment? Its brand new and was setup properly in October

- is the neck warping?

 

I have no issues bringing it to my dealer (he encourages me to do so for any issues - an advantage of smaller stores where they know your name when you walk in) - would just like a heads up as to what might be causing it and what a good solution might be.

 

Thanks.

Usually the nut is the culprit.

It wouldn't hurt to have the frets leveled and polished, nothing extreme just a basic job done

and since the weather has been cold ...if it's that much colder where you are now than it was in October (dropped from 80 to 35 degrees type weather) then you may well need the neck looked at.

Explain to them exactly what is going on with it and surely they will be able to help fix it.

[bill67]

Usually the nut is the culprit.

It wouldn't hurt to have the frets leveled and polished, nothing extreme just a basic job done

and since the weather has been cold ...if it's that much colder where you are now than it was in October (dropped from 80 to 35 degrees type weather) then you may well need the neck looked at.

Explain to them exactly what is going on with it and surely they will be able to help fix it.

When it drys out the top of the guitar goes down,So your bridge is lower,You need to raise your bridge a little in the winter.

[MediaMan]

When it drys out the top of the guitar goes down,So your bridge is lower,You need to raise your bridge a little in the winter.

 

I want to start building up my knowledg/skills re truss rod adjustments - especailly if I need to do this time to time re seasonal weather variations.

Any good tutorial/instructional videos someone could point me to , applicable to EpiPhone Dot (or other semi-hollows)?

[RaSTuS]

I want to start building up my knowledg/skills re truss rod adjustments - especailly if I need to do this time to time re seasonal weather variations.

Any good tutorial/instructional videos someone could point me to , applicable to EpiPhone Dot (or other semi-hollows)?

The DIY thread at the top of Epi Lounge (it's a sticky) has some good info on setup and truss rod adjustments.

[Whitmore Willy]

I want to start building up my knowledg/skills re truss rod adjustments - especailly if I need to do this time to time re seasonal weather variations.

Any good tutorial/instructional videos someone could point me to , applicable to EpiPhone Dot (or other semi-hollows)?

 

DO NOT...repeat...DO NOT use the Peter Townshend Method!!!

 

 

Willy

[MediaMan]

Thanks for the lounge tips. And the I've used the Peter Townshend method many times for other projects. Works well but makes a mess.

 

I'm a visual guy, so I assembled the following from various google images and my own interepreation.

 

Have I got this right?

 

UPDATE: See revised pic , Ver 1.3 below

[MediaMan]

Hmmm, I know it takes time to feel/hear the affect of the adjsutment, Bought i tightned mine a bit and it seems to have more buzz, not less. I think the pics above are good but I mught have my notes wrong re (do this is there is buzzing...)

[Fringe Lunatic]

I'll try to help you avoid the guesswork. A very good way to check relief is to depress the low E string at the 1st fret and at the fret where the neck joins the body (17th on a Dot). If the neck is perfectly straight or back-bowed (using this method there's really no way to know which), there will be no gap at the middle frets (7th). If that is the case, the truss rod needs to be loosened, by turning it counter-clockwise. What you're shooting for is a slight (approximately .010 inch) gap at the 7th fret. The truss rod adjustments should be done when the guitar is tuned normally, and should be done 1/8 turn at a time, checking the gap after each.

 

The nut slot heights can be checked by depressing the strings between the 2nd and 3rd frets (using a capo is handy). the gap at the first fret should be approximately .015 inch, which is the thickness of a standard business card.

 

Hope this helps.

[MediaMan]

See Ver 1.3 below

[Fringe Lunatic]

Also, keep in mind that if the the action (bridge height) is too low, there may be excessive fret buzz, regardless of truss rod adjustment. Gibson/Epiphone specifies nominal measurements at the 12th fret to be 4/64" (high E) and 6/64" (low E), as detailed in the owner's manual.

 

Edit: Using the "string method" of checking neck relief, the gap is not so much a specification as it is proof positive that the neck isn't back-bowed. Although a perfectly straight neck may be optimal for some setups, many players lack an accurate straight-edge to accomplish this. There is really no "scientific" or "correct" way to do setups due to the many variables involved. Some players don't even care about fret buzz.

[MediaMan]

Yup, bridge adjustment needs another 101 visual as well. Gonna work on one.

[MediaMan]

Yup, bridge adjustment needs another 101 visual as well. Gonna work on one.

 

Here's a lame ready reference from manual...

 

[Fringe Lunatic]

Bridge adjustments are best done with the strings de-tuned, especially intonation of wound strings.

 

There's quite a bit of debate about intonation - whether to use the harmonic or the 12th fretted note. I use the fretted note.

[animalfarm]

I want to start building up my knowledg/skills re truss rod adjustments - especailly if I need to do this time to time re seasonal weather variations.

Any good tutorial/instructional videos someone could point me to , applicable to EpiPhone Dot (or other semi-hollows)?

 

Your Guitar is exhibiting all the "classic signs" of going into "Backbow", which would not only

lower the action, but also cause the fret buzz which was NOT there previously.

 

It IS possible that the NUT could contrubute to the problem, but my experience tells me

to put LOW on the priority list. Had MY NUTS for a long time, no problems...

 

1. Colder environment - shrinks the metal truss rod in the neck, will straighten the neck, and

many. many times will put the neck into mild to severe Backbow.

2. Our guitars ae usually in a DRY, heated environment in WINTER. DRY wood also shrinks.

 

Cold/Dry will have the same effect. BACKBOW & FRET BUZZ!

 

With each change in season, your guitar should be given a set-up. I do mine at least twice a year,

specifically at the beginning of summer and winter, after allowing the GIT to "adjust" to the new

Temp/Humidity.

 

Are you able to "Sight Down" the neck using the strings as a reference straightedge, and note any

Backbow? The only special tool you need is an eyeball.

 

RaSTuS is correct (+1) regarding references/tutorials for set-ups - To wit:

 

Go to Epiphone Lounge, "Do-it-Yourself" Thread/Sticky is near TOP of page. Click on it.

Now, scroll down to ***GUITAR SET-UP/TRUSS ROD ADJUSTMENT: section.

There are 6 entries and tutorials regarding HOW to do Set-ups, including neck adjustments.

 

I use an 18" metal ruler for mine, plus the "eyeball"!

Give 'em a read. If in doubt/first time, take to LOCAL Tech and WATCH him/her do it!

LEARN, LEARN, LEARN!!!!

 

[RaSTuS]

Bridge adjustments are best done with the strings de-tuned, especially intonation of wound strings.

 

There's quite a bit of debate about intonation - whether to use the harmonic or the 12th fretted note. I use the fretted note.

When doing intonation I use the open string against the 12th harmonic and the 12th fretted, only when all three are the same do I consider it intonated.

[Gunner]

When doing intonation I use the open string against the 12th harmonic and the 12th fretted, only when all three are the same do I consider it intonated.

Unless there is something wrong with the string, the open string and 12th harmonic will always be the same (technically, one octave apart).

[RaSTuS]

Unless there is something wrong with the string, the open string and 12th harmonic will always be the same (technically, one octave apart).

Usually (in most the guides I've seen) the intonation is checked using the 12th fretted against the 12th harmonic, I just like the idea of double checking against the open string for completeness, I'm anal.

[Whitmore Willy]

I'll try to help you avoid the guesswork. A very good way to check relief is to depress the low E string at the 1st fret and at the fret where the neck joins the body (17th on a Dot). If the neck is perfectly straight or back-bowed (using this method there's really no way to know which), there will be no gap at the middle frets (7th). What you're shooting for is a slight (approximately .010 inch) gap at the 7th fret. The truss rod adjustments should be done when the guitar is tuned normally, and should be done 1/8 turn at a time, checking the gap after each.

+1, Also, a capo can act as a "third" hand, using it on the 1st fret.

 

Also, keep in mind that if the the action (bridge height) is too low, there may be excessive fret buzz, regardless of truss rod adjustment. Gibson/Epiphone specifies nominal measurements at the 12th fret to be 4/64" (high E) and 6/64" (low E), as detailed in the owner's manual.

Edit: Using the "string method" of checking neck relief, the gap is not so much a specification as it is proof positive that the neck isn't back-bowed. Although a perfectly straight neck may be optimal for some setups, many players lack an accurate straight-edge to accomplish this. There is really no "scientific" or "correct" way to do setups due to the many variables involved. Some players don't even care about fret buzz.

Once again, good advice.

 

RaSTuS is correct (+1) regarding references/tutorials for set-ups - To wit:

Go to Epiphone Lounge, "Do-it-Yourself" Thread/Sticky is near TOP of page. Click on it.

Now, scroll down to ***GUITAR SET-UP/TRUSS ROD ADJUSTMENT: section.

There are 6 entries and tutorials regarding HOW to do Set-ups, including neck adjustments.

As you seem to indicate that the fret buzz is current, the above advice should get you on your way.

 

Frets seating can "rise". If that is the problem, they can be reseated, but it is not as common as the above described.

Basic setup is not rocket science but care should be taken. It is a good thing to learn. Effect of temperature and humidity have been discussed so I see no reason to comment.

The one thing I will add is that in adjusting a truss rod Don't over do it all at once.

I am overly cautious and tend not to go more than 1/8 turn. I then let it set for several hours before checking and readjusting. I don't like to do more than 1/4 turn in any 24 hr. period. 1/4 turn is in fact, a fair amount of adjustment and should have a very noticeable effect on the neck.

 

Willy

[animalfarm]

Mediaman - your drawings are good, but there is a wee bit of incorrect info

in the BOLD section to the right on the "Truss Rod" drawing!!!!!!

 

Tightening the TRUSS ROD will cause the neck to bend torwards the BACK of the

Guitar, DECREASING BOW, not Increasing it as per the drawing! This will make a flatter

neck/fretboard, possibly causing even more pronounced Backbow and fret buzz as the strings

will be even CLOSER to the frets than they were before!

You mentioned you TIGHTENED your Truss Rod, and now have even MORE BUZZ. YEP!

 

Loosening the TRUSS ROD will allow the neck to bend/flex/move torward the FRONT of the

guitar, this increases the distance between strings and frets. I usually shoot for as flat

a neck as I can get, but I can easily live with just a slight bit of "Frontbow/Upbow" - some folks

here prefer it.

 

Once you be happy with neck, readjust the "Action" (String height at 12th fret). I set mine at 4/64ths

for both LOW E and HIGH E (personal preference), as the 6/64ths LOW E recommended by the EPI book is slightly

high for my tastes.

THEN, you can adjust the intonation. The following is only if the Bridge saddle screws are facing the pickups.

Easy way to remember which direction to turn screw - if note is FLAT when fretted at 12th fret,

(the word FLAT has an "F" at the beginning), turn/tighten the screw to the right to pull the bridge torward the

FRETBOARD (Hey! The word FRETBOARD also has an "F" at the beginning!) FLAT = move Bridge saddle torward FRETBOARD!

 

Before adjusting intonation on any given string, de-tune string to remove resistance to movement of bridge saddle,

turn Saddle screw in appropriate direction a couple of turns, then re-tune and recheck. After that, follow above

directions and "fine-tune" until the intonation is right on the money.

 

AS WILLY sez: "Basic setup is not rocket science but care should be taken. It is a good thing to learn".

[Juicefani11]

Now, i have this problem too... Can someone write instructions in Finnish? I would understand it muuch better.

[animalfarm]

Now, i have this problem too... Can someone write instructions in Finnish? I would understand it muuch better.

 

EH?

 

EDIT: Translation removed as to NOT use up webpage space, and it's been

"quoted" already!

 

EH?

[Juicefani11]

EH? Seems to be a combination of Finnish and English,

sort of Finn-Glish?

 

Joukkoviestimet sinun piirustus aari hyvä , ainoastaan paikalla on pienen pieni avaimenlehti -lta epätarkka neuvonta ARASTELEMATON jakso jotta aivan model after " ansas Kanki " piirustus!!!!!!

 

Jännittyvä ANSAS KANKI jälkisäädös aiheena halailla jotta alistua torwards TAAKSEPÄIN -lta theGuitar , KAVENTAVA Jousenkaari , ei Enenevä se koska kohden piirustus! Nyt kuluva jälkisäädös ehtiä flatterneck fretboard , ehkä aiheuttava edes enemmän ilmeinen Taaksepäin ja hankautua humina koska jouset jälkisäädös olla edes LAKKAUTTAA jotta hankautua kuin he toivoisin olevani aiemmin!

Te mainita te KIRISTÄÄ sinun Ansas Kanki , ja kas noin hankkia edes ENEMMÄN Humina. YEP!

 

Hellitsevä ANSAS KANKI jälkisäädös antaa halailla jotta alistua / koukistaa / ehdottaa torward ETU- -lta theguitar , nyt kuluva kasvaa etäisyys kesken jouset ja hankautua. I-KIRJAIN normaalisti ampaista ajaksi koska alentaa halailla koska I-KIRJAIN kanisteri panna , ainoastaan I-KIRJAIN kanisteri helposti suorana lähetyksenä avulla kohtuullinen kohdella epäkunnioittavasti avaimenlehti -lta " etu- Upbow " jokin folkshere haluta it.

 

Once te olla iloinen avulla halailla , jälkisäätö " kanne " ( jono huippu aikaa 12th hankautua ). I-KIRJAIN asento minun aikaa 4/64thsfor kumpikin AMMUA E-KIRJAIN ja JALO E-KIRJAIN ( oma- etuoikeus ), koska 6/64ths AMMUA E-KIRJAIN ehdottaa luona EPI kirjanpidollinen on slightlyhigh ajaksi minun maistaa. Niin muodoin , te kanisteri asetella intonaatio. seuraava on ainoa tokko Bridge-peli satula ruuvi aari kaulus pickups.Easy elämäntapa jotta muistaa joka haara jotta hapantua kierre tokko huomata on ALENTAA jahka hankautuva aikaa 12th hankautua , ( sana ALENTAA has by " f-kirjain " aikaa alku ), hapantua / kiristää kierre jotta aivan jotta kiskaista bridge-peli torward theFRETBOARD Hey! sana FRETBOARD kin has by " f-kirjain " aikaa alku! ) ALENTAA = ehdottaa Bridge-peli satula torward FRETBOARD!

 

Aiemmin asetella intonaatio model after jokin kimmoisuus jono de - laulelma jono jotta eliminoida resistenssi jotta aikamitta -lta bridge-peli saddle,turn Satula kierre kotona anastaa haara koiranvitjat -lta hapantua , niin muodoin koskien - laulelma ja recheck. Jäljessä että , harjoittaa abovedirections ja " hienosti - laulelma " ennen kuin intonaatio on aivan model after raha JÄLKISÄÄDÖS sez : " emäksinen asetus on ei raketti luonnontiede ainoastaan haluta pitäisi olla varattu. Se on hyvä asia jotta kuulla ".

 

EH?

xD That's more like... emm... umm... I don't even know what is that. xD "jälkisäädös aiheena halailla" means like... Last will as topic to hug... XD

[MediaMan]

Mediaman - your drawings are good, but there is a wee bit of incorrect info

in the BOLD section to the right on the "Truss Rod" drawing!!!!!!

 

REVISED:

 

[MediaMan]

Almost all the buzz was removed with a little LOOSENING of the truss rod. I was left with only buzz on frets 1 and 2 on the two high strings. Didnt think raising the bridge would address that ... so I put some graphite shavings in the nut and it worked like a charm. Not sure if this is a temporary fix (as in hours) , but I guess time will tell!