Humm buzz from dimmer switches, knob and tube wiring, etc.

[Jared Purdy]

I recently bought a Swart AST master, and when I plugged my LP Traditional into it I was getting a bit of buzz/humm in the neck and bridge pisition, but nothing in the middle position. I also have a Strat Deluxe, which has noisless pickups, and when I plug that guitar into the Swart, I get no buzz or humm at all. In the pursuit of the cause of tis problem, I took the ampo and the guitar to the store where I bought the guitar. It is large, in an old building with a very high ceiling, and lots of florescent lights - but, all rewired. It was dead quiet there. The manager of the store, who checked the guitar, said that the humbuckers in teh neck and bridge position would not cancel out the bad frequencies coming from knob and tube wiring, poor or weak grounding, or dimmer switches, but it woudl in the middle position as it is working off both PUs. A tech at a guitar and amp repair shop said the same thing. Is tis correct? In the pursuit of this issue, I took my amp and LP to my neighbours, where every room is wired with dimmer switches, and it was even worse there! The funny thing is, the LP does not buzz/humm when plugged into my 75 Fender SFPR.

[chengin]

Dunno if its any help, but I have a room with dimmer switch & recess lights in ceiling, and old fashioned lamps with bulbs in em in corner of room. Lamps with bulbs are usually always on.

 

For the life of me I couldn't figure out why sometimes by gear starting buzzing like crazy. So I started adjusting Noise supressors on FX board to try to counteract this (which worked to a certain extent.

 

Took a while to relaise buzzing was caused whenever dimmer for lights was turned on. So yes, it sounds like it is correct answer you were given.

[damian]

Other members are better at answering potential wiring problems and with diagnosises thereof.......Nice amps, by the way.......

 

Anyways, once you have the problem solved, I suggest that you get a 'power conditioner' for your equipment...There are many levels of quality and 'conditioning' abilities in these units...

 

Of course, solve the potential wiring problem first...............Damian.....

 

( Dimmer switches and flouresent bulbs will cause AC noise problems, hence the existance of power conditioners for musicians...)

[Jared Purdy]

Other members are better at answering potential wiring problems and with diagnosises thereof.......Nice amps, by the way.......

 

Anyways, once you have the problem solved, I suggest that you get a 'power conditioner' for your equipment...There are many levels of quality and 'conditioning' abilities in these units...

 

Of course, solve the potential wiring problem first...............Damian.....

 

( Dimmer switches and flouresent bulbs will cause AC noise problems, hence the existance of power conditioners for musicians...)

 

Thanks Damian. What is a power conditioner? Are they sold at music shops or hardwear stores?

[damian]

Hey !!!!! OK, look on these music sellers sites; Musician's Friend, ZZ Sounds, 123 Music, etc, and see what they carry.....Compare the specs, prices, etc, and study what they do...

 

In short, they 'condition' the incoming AC power, removing spikes and such, they 'filter' out AC hum, and clean out the 'stuff' that tags along with incoming AC power.......

 

These units are designed for musical gear.....One could think of them as super duper surge protectors.....Some units have diplays which show the current (no pun intended) line voltage..

 

You would / will be shocked how much incoming AC power varies from second to second, minute to minute etc......Prices vary, and you don't need a fancy $500.00 one, $150.00 should do..

 

Always remember that most retailers will price match these days, so, don't ever pay retail for any musical gear..Hope this short version helps.......

[Jared Purdy]

Hey !!!!! OK, look on these music sellers sites; Musician's Friend, ZZ Sounds, 123 Music, etc, and see what they carry.....Compare the specs, prices, etc, and study what they do...

 

In short, they 'condition' the incoming AC power, removing spikes and such, they 'filter' out AC hum, and clean out the 'stuff' that tags along with incoming AC power.......

 

These units are designed for musical gear.....One could think of them as super duper surge protectors.....Some units have diplays which show the current (no pun intended) line voltage..

 

You would / will be shocked how much incoming AC power varies from second to second, minute to minute etc......Prices vary, and you don't need a fancy $500.00 one, $150.00 should do..

 

Always remember that most retailers will price match these days, so, don't ever pay retail for any musical gear..Hope this short version helps.......

 

Thanks for the sites. I've done some research. There is one product called HumX which is said to get rid of hum. I spoke to a sales person at a local store who said they use to carry it but it doesn't work. ART is a big company, but I'm still looking. Edit: I'm going to pick up a ART CleanBox II hum eliminator - tonite, I'll let you know if it works.

 

It didn't work.

[dhstaab]

HumX helped a little with some pops and noises caused by an air conditioner, but didn't help at all with noise from lights, computers, humidifier motor, etc that generated rf interference. I added an expensive Monster 3500 which made a big difference on all of my 20+ guitars EXCEPT for my Gibson Les Paul. It has an annoying hum/buzz that only goes away when you touch the strings or other metal on the guitar. Good luck.

[BigKahune]

Try a noise reducer that goes into the jack line between your guitar (or last pedal if you've got pedals) and the amp input.

 

For instance - http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ISP-Technologies-Decimator-Noise-Reduction-Pedal?sku=150368

 

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ISP-Technologies-Decimator-G-String-Noise-Reduction-Guitar-Effects-Pedal?sku=150586

 

<no affiliation>

[Jared Purdy]

Try a noise reducer that goes into the jack line between your guitar (or last pedal if you've got pedals) and the amp input.

 

For instance - http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ISP-Technologies-Decimator-Noise-Reduction-Pedal?sku=150368

 

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ISP-Technologies-Decimator-G-String-Noise-Reduction-Guitar-Effects-Pedal?sku=150586

 

<no affiliation>

 

Thanks, that's what the ART Clean Box II is supposed to do! What it really is is a massive volume cut, making it seem like it has eliminated the aberation, when in fact it has just cut the colume. Doh! I can do that with the volume knob without spending $70!!

[Jared Purdy]

HumX helped a little with some pops and noises caused by an air conditioner, but didn't help at all with noise from lights, computers, humidifier motor, etc that generated rf interference. I added an expensive Monster 3500 which made a big difference on all of my 20+ guitars EXCEPT for my Gibson Les Paul. It has an annoying hum/buzz that only goes away when you touch the strings or other metal on the guitar. Good luck.

 

I suspect that you are right. I'm waiting for a friend who's a certified electrician to come over and do some tests. That will be the fix, if it is fixablewithout spending thousands on rewiring, etc.

[stein]

if it is happening with one combo of amp and guitar, you have isolated some of it there. it does it with one amp, but not the other. also, it does it more with your les paul in that amp than some of the other guitars. interesting.

here is something to consider: while humbuckers do work, they only eliminate hum coming from the input of the guitar, and have an effect on the hum that comes through the interaction of the guitar amd amp. when you consider the sources like dimmer switches, and post and knob wiring, that noise is likely coming through the ac power in the house, and your amp is amplifying it. the cause is that dimmer swtches cause an imbalence in the a/c, and post and knob wiring is by nature imbalenced because they do not run in pairs, and power that comes through the power outlet is directly tied to the power in the lights and wall. the imbalence, or noise, is always there, you just don't hear it until you plug in an amp.

also, what you hear in an amp circuit is alays a combo of the signal AND the power source used to amplify it. that is to say, that whatever gets into the amp circuit that is not filterd is amplified. while there might not be music, or words, per se, that is running through the wires in the wall, and if it was would problably not be heard as such, what power is coming through the wall can be full of noise or also be not clean, as well as vary in voltage and cycle.

different power conditioners have different types of filters, sinse you know that it is mostly happening with that amp, and you have isolated the cause (with help from these posters here) and you like that amp, there it is. power conditioner.

now, as if i may seem smart having experience with this noise and power conditioners, i am embarrased to say i don't remember what those kind of power conditioners are called (the type of filtering). not much help, e?. but i do know they exist.

[dhstaab]

Furman and Monster make the best known / most widely used power conditioners. They not only protect your equipment (sorta like an expensive super surge protector) but also filter out a lot of the noise coming from wiring problems or other devices plugged into other outlets. My worst problems came from a furnace/airconditioner and a ceiling fan. I got the Monster 3500 and it virtually eliminated all of that type of interference.

 

The power conditioner did not do much for interference that was picked up by the guitar, cables and effects pedals that act as an antenna for rf noise. Computer monitors, some types of lights and motors also send out rf interference if they are not shielded properly.

 

A good power conditioner will also tell you if you have grounding, low voltage or other problems in your home wiring. Professional musicians use them to protect their gear when they play in unknown locations. If you decide to get one I would invest in a good one. They can cost several hundred dollars and up.

 

As I mentioned, I also use a HumX but it did not do much. I also have a Boss Noise Supressor NS2 that goes inline with your effects pedals between the guitar and amp. It helps a little, especially with the kind of noise you get from Fender type single pickups and P90s, but I find it clips off some of my tone so I don't usually use it. I haven't found that it helps much with humbuckers that also theoretically cancel out most of that type of interference. By the way MusicMan has amazing technology in the Ernie Ball and other guitars with single pups or P90s - it eliminates all of the hum from the single coils with no loss of tone that I can detect. For those that prefer soap bar P90 type of pickups like myself, it is great.

 

The buzz/hum from my Les Paul was fixed this morning by my guitar tech. A soon as he opened the back he found that all of the solder joints in my Traditional Pro were loose and wires were not firmly attached. It actually looked like some kid had done the soldering. Gobs of solder appeared to have been just dropped onto the connections with wires barely attached. Suggestion to those who may have this problem (I understand it is very common with newer Les Pauls)- noise from bad solder connections can come and go as you move the guitar or change its position. On his bench the noise was barely audible, but when you picked up the guitar in playing position it got louder, apparently because the lose wires moved. The noise in mine went completely away whenever I touched a metal part because I was completing the ground.

 

If you've got a wiring/solder probem I suggest getting it checked as soon as possible. My guitar never left my house - it came from Gibson via Guitar Center this way.

[Jared Purdy]

Furman and Monster make the best known / most widely used power conditioners. They not only protect your equipment (sorta like an expensive super surge protector) but also filter out a lot of the noise coming from wiring problems or other devices plugged into other outlets. My worst problems came from a furnace/airconditioner and a ceiling fan. I got the Monster 3500 and it virtually eliminated all of that type of interference.

 

The power conditioner did not do much for interference that was picked up by the guitar, cables and effects pedals that act as an antenna for rf noise. Computer monitors, some types of lights and motors also send out rf interference if they are not shielded properly.

 

A good power conditioner will also tell you if you have grounding, low voltage or other problems in your home wiring. Professional musicians use them to protect their gear when they play in unknown locations. If you decide to get one I would invest in a good one. They can cost several hundred dollars and up.

 

As I mentioned, I also use a HumX but it did not do much. I also have a Boss Noise Supressor NS2 that goes inline with your effects pedals between the guitar and amp. It helps a little, especially with the kind of noise you get from Fender type single pickups and P90s, but I find it clips off some of my tone so I don't usually use it. I haven't found that it helps much with humbuckers that also theoretically cancel out most of that type of interference. By the way MusicMan has amazing technology in the Ernie Ball and other guitars with single pups or P90s - it eliminates all of the hum from the single coils with no loss of tone that I can detect. For those that prefer soap bar P90 type of pickups like myself, it is great.

 

The buzz/hum from my Les Paul was fixed this morning by my guitar tech. A soon as he opened the back he found that all of the solder joints in my Traditional Pro were loose and wires were not firmly attached. It actually looked like some kid had done the soldering. Gobs of solder appeared to have been just dropped onto the connections with wires barely attached. Suggestion to those who may have this problem (I understand it is very common with newer Les Pauls)- noise from bad solder connections can come and go as you move the guitar or change its position. On his bench the noise was barely audible, but when you picked up the guitar in playing position it got louder, apparently because the lose wires moved. The noise in mine went completely away whenever I touched a metal part because I was completing the ground.

 

If you've got a wiring/solder probem I suggest getting it checked as soon as possible. My guitar never left my house - it came from Gibson via Guitar Center this way.

 

Hi and thanks, I read your thread with interest, though I am not entirely sure if it applies to me as my guitar and amp were silent at the music store that I took them to. In my house, it's a different story. I'm going to take the back of my LP tomorrow and have a look inside. I'm no electrician, but I can certainly tell if wires are barely hanging on.

 

Hi, there is no shielding in the cavity and none on the back of the cover plate.

[G McBride]

"Barely hanging on" does not mean that you will see loose wires. The tech was probably talking about a cold solder which is a condition where either the wire or the metal the wire was to be attached was not hot when the soldering was done. Both parts have to be hot enough for the solder to flow to and attach.

[Jared Purdy]

Has anyone attempted to shield the inside of the cavities of their LPs in an attempt to eliminate hum?

[stein]

Has anyone attempted to shield the inside of the cavities of their LPs in an attempt to eliminate hum?

i have heard of it and i could never understand why, but given what i read on this i can see it now.

 

i have done it with strats as experiments and have not noticed any reduction of hum. also tried it with an lp special, still no reduction.

 

with the special, no change. with the strats, in some cases, thought the didn't sound as good (duller tone) and sometimes maybe hummed louder. i have had some success with strats by altering the ground scheme to star grounding to eliminate ground looping. with the special, with four controls and a gibson wiring i thought perhaps it got louder when i rewired it to a vintage style with coax as opposed to the way it was wired as it came factory, and, i noticed there was no way to star ground it wired this way, hence the sheilding experiment.

 

bear in mind that none of this was done with a problem like yours or with your conditions, and were controled experiments, and did not take the axes out to try them in other environments. the experiments with the strats, however, were done in a house in the basement that had exposed genuine knob and post wiring that also had a dimmer switch that was often in use in the dining room upstairs. i also had an audiophile type stereo in this house in this proximinty, and i didn't get the problem like you described, but had powerline filters that took care of a lot of other problems.

 

so, in short i have done lots of experiments with various noise and hum and grounding, but never your partucular problem. it still to me points to the amp/power from the wall, but you might be onto something with shielding the lp if that guitar causes the most problems in that amp. and while i could never see the reasons why anyone would shield an axe with humbucks, maybe there is something to it.

[Jared Purdy]

Someone over on tdpri turned me on to this site. If you go through it you'll find a story of how one of the luthiers on the site worked on one of Carlos Santana's Gibson LPs and when he opened it up, every cavity, including the tremelo cavity was shielded, and that is going way back in years. Have a look: http://www.newenglandluthiers.org/contents/Articles/Tips_Techniques_Tools/JPLP_wiring/shield.html

[Jared Purdy]

Further developments in the quest for the source of the humm/buzz. This is what I learned today:

 

1. I spoke with a guitar tech at Yorkville sound, the Canadian authorized distributor and repair centre for Gibson guitars (and the manufacturer of Traynor amps). He told me that all Gibson LPs in the wrong place will hum/buzz, some worse that others. He mentioned several bars in the Toronto area, as well as residences around the CN Tower that have varying degrees of humm/buzz all of the time. Humbuckers are not designed to eliminate RF or EMF frequencies.

 

2. I took my guitar into the Twelfth Fret today (google it) and the guitar is perfect and was as quiet as a mouse in the repair shop. However, when I went down staris and grabbed a couple of LPs off the wall and plugged them into a Fender HRDx III, all of them hummd/buzzed, and it was much worse there than what I get in my house.

 

3. I took my Swart and LP to my neighbour's two doors down. He lives in a detached house, same age as mine, but in the fall it was gutted and completely re-wired - all new, no knob and tube. It was dead silent!!

 

4. I bought a ground tester today and checked the sockets on the main floor (where I play). The ground on all of them is good.

 

So, at least I have eliminated a few things!!

[stein]

still reading with interest. very curious.

 

so, is it still just the lp with the swart and not the lp with the fender amp?

[Jared Purdy]

still reading with interest. very curious.

 

so, is it still just the lp with the swart and not the lp with the fender amp?

 

I took the SFPR in for some much needed work after 36 years of neglect. But to answer your question prior to taking it in for service, yes, the LP was basically silent in it. The Swart is very sensitive, and with the right/wrong PU's combined with RF or EMF, and a match made in heaven will occur. That's my take on it, at least.

[Jared Purdy]

I took the SFPR in for some much needed work after 36 years of neglect. But to answer your question prior to taking it in for service, yes, the LP was basically silent in it. The Swart is very sensitive, and with the right/wrong PU's combined with RF or EMF, and a match made in heaven will occur. That's my take on it, at least.

 

I think that I will attempt to shield the cavities with copper tape. I have read mixed reviews of this, so I am not entirely convinced it will work, but the tape is cheap and it's my time.

[dhstaab]

Any update on this?

[Bender 4 Life]

you KNOW you have knob & tube wiring, but your main worry is about guitar hum???

i'd be more worried about Rome burning while you fiddle, as K&T is the worst old wiring on the planet.(the most likely to cause fires, as well as being a massive electrocution hazard).

[Bluemoon]

I had the same problem as you. It's RFI. There is something in or near your house causing it. A power conditioner won't work for RFI.

 

My LP buzzed and hummed only in my house. It drove me nuts. I finally gave up after chasing the problem for a year and got the LP shielded (my tech used shielding paint). It is now as silent as a mouse. My tele also hummed and buzzed (different from single coil buzz). I got thAT shielded too. Worked like a charm.

 

I think I know what caused it. There is a huge transformer on an electrical pole in the alley near my house.

 

The shielding cost about $60 to do for each guitar. Best $60 i ever spent.

[Jared Purdy]

I had the same problem as you. It's RFI. There is something in or near your house causing it. A power conditioner won't work for RFI.

 

My LP buzzed and hummed only in my house. It drove me nuts. I finally gave up after chasing the problem for a year and got the LP shielded (my tech used shielding paint). It is now as silent as a mouse. My tele also hummed and buzzed (different from single coil buzz). I got thAT shielded too. Worked like a charm.

 

I think I know what caused it. There is a huge transformer on an electrical pole in the alley near my house.

 

The shielding cost about $60 to do for each guitar. Best $60 i ever spent.

 

Thanks, I'll make an advance on it - sooooon! Too busy these days to tear it a part. A fellow LP player came by, and his makes the same sound at his house. I know, it's unique!