MM Explorer vs Epi Nighthawk

[Artie Owl]

thank you for the correction..I think you are proplably right, and one thing I can tell you for sure is that I don't know the exact construction and finishes for either guitar, and I am making generalizations. It may not be fair.

 

But, I think perhaps you fail to see my point. I am not trying to say that Epiphones are bad guitars at all, or even saying that guitars made by outside contracters are bad guitars. Not saying that cheap guitars are a bad thing.

 

The whole point I AM trying to make is that there are advantages and differences to a Gibson vs. an Epiphone. When it comes to cutting cost in places, the things that are NOT cut out in the case of a cheap Gibson are things the Epi never had in the first place, things that are inherent to all Gibsons. Namely, the place it comes from and the poeple who make it. The point is that there are many who want a "gibson" (for what that is worth) in a cheaper version LIKE the cost of an Epi.

 

Others have stated their opinions and reasons, and I stated mine as it related to the poster's question, and I still think it is a no brainer. Especially the point about upgrading and/or mooding the guitar, which was brought up.

 

Now look here man, if you ask me the Epi (all Epi's) are fine guitars, and of quality and are great for the money. There is nothing to knock about them. But if and when it comes down to a comparism between Gibsons and Epiphones, then it will seem they are being knocked.

I appreciate it and if it seems like I'm being defensive I apologize, it's late here and I'm tired, and tired of the old argument, that if it's not Gibson then it's no good. Personally I cannot vouch for either being more quality than another at this point, so there's that.

 

However, sometimes the case can be that a quality lower end product can be better than a baseline version of a higher end brand.

 

I already have my SG which I love, so I'm not buying it because I can't afford the Gibby I'm buying it because I want that specific model.

 

Sorry if I was blunt in my response, I r sleepy.

[stein]

I appreciate it and if it seems like I'm being defensive I apologize, it's late here and I'm tired, and tired of the old argument, that if it's not Gibson then it's no good. Personally I cannot vouch for either being more quality than another at this point, so there's that.

 

However, sometimes the case can be that a quality lower end product can be better than a baseline version of a higher end brand.

 

I already have my SG which I love, so I'm not buying it because I can't afford the Gibby I'm buying it because I want that specific model.

 

Sorry if I was blunt in my response, I r sleepy.

No problem. I guess I might be over reacting a little as well.

 

It seems there are a lot of rabid Epiphone fans, and well deserved of corse. I get a reaction sometimes when sometimes an Epi lover won't accept a comment or suggestion that there are some things better about a Gibby than the Epi that it is made to be like.

[damian]

You're missing proper information;

 

The Epiphone Nighthawk custom is made with Mahogany body and neck, AAA flamed maple top and ebony fretboard, with MOP inlays.

 

 

Probably imitation mahogany with an alder top with AAA flamed veneer, also I highly doubt they have genuine MOP, R9s don't even have real MOP fretboard inlays.

 

When Epi says Solid Mahogany, this means solid mahogany....There may be several pieces of it, but they are not ply....ALL Epi ' Flame ' tops are veneer, and they say so.

 

These Nighthawks do have MOP.....MOP is not expensive to use when purchased in bulk and cut to size overseas...Ebony fretboards are not expensive to use for

 

the same reasons; Lessor grades are used, the work is done overseas, etc.......The term MAHOGANY; The term IS indeed overused......Mahogany today refers to any

 

number of species that " fits " into the " general " species of mahogany.........Think about swamp ash wood; Many guitars are made with swamp ash.......ONLY SWAMP ASH

 

from certain areas of the swamp ash trees are worthwhile to use......R9s don't use MOP for reasons that every owner on one knows.................

 

Acoustics that have " select " tops refers to laminate tops.....Solid means solid...............blah blah blah.......

[Artie Owl]

Typically you get what you pay for and I know that, I'm excited to find out whether this Epi is the exception to the rule.

[stein]

Typically you get what you pay for and I know that, I'm excited to find out whether this Epi is the exception to the rule.

I'm excited and curious how well the MM series is gonna do. One thing that has always been cheesy about them is the pup config and the smaller undersized headstocks, but it looks like at least for some models Gibby has found a way around that.

 

It's a CHEAP Gibby that looks like it is actually cool as well.

[SG FAN]

I think that this is one of those "you get what you pay for" moments also. But if it plays good and you like it, that is all that matters.

[FirstMeasure]

The Original Nighhawks have a Maple Veneer top, as well. It's more to do with the Sleek Styling of the over all guitar rather than expense. Still, it's pretty thick for a Veneer.

 

And I must add, "You Get What You Pay For" doesn't always apply when you're paying for a name. I can almost Guarantee that a $800 Epiphone is going to play as well, and look nicer than an $800 Gibson. Plus you'll probably get a hard case with the Epi.

[icantbuyafender]

Sigh,

Can you point out where the Asterisk is saying that it's not what it claims to be on their website? If it's false advertising then I was misinformed and I'll have to examine it for myself.

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Designer/Epiphone/Nighthawk-Custom-Reissue/Specs.aspx

 

I wanted this guitar because it was unique, with a string through body, single cutaway, glued neck and unique split coil setup, I don't care if it was made anywhere other than America as long as I feel that it's worth my money.

 

Who knows it might be worth it, it might not, it may even be a collectable someday.

 

 

LMFAO

 

It'll be a cold day in hell when an epi nighthawk becomes a collectible. a Casino, yes, thats a Epi original. not a nighthawk or anything else that they pump out other than the sheritans.

 

honestly, i have hada few chinaphones, and they say one thing but you get another. i had a standard that had like a 4 piece body of PLYWOOD. PLYWOOD for cryin out loud! With the thinnest veneer I've ever seen. Not to mention thick nasty poly...

 

i shudder at the thought!

[icantbuyafender]

When Epi says Solid Mahogany, this means solid mahogany....There may be several pieces of it, but they are not ply....ALL Epi ' Flame ' tops are veneer, and they say so.

 

These Nighthawks do have MOP.....MOP is not expensive to use when purchased in bulk and cut to size overseas...Ebony fretboards are not expensive to use for

 

the same reasons; Lessor grades are used, the work is done overseas, etc.......The term MAHOGANY; The term IS indeed overused......Mahogany today refers to any

 

number of species that " fits " into the " general " species of mahogany.........Think about swamp ash wood; Many guitars are made with swamp ash.......ONLY SWAMP ASH

 

from certain areas of the swamp ash trees are worthwhile to use......R9s don't use MOP for reasons that every owner on one knows.................

 

Acoustics that have " select " tops refers to laminate tops.....Solid means solid...............blah blah blah.......

 

 

YEAH.

 

THEY SAID SO.

 

whens the last time they ever lied about materials!??

 

...right? ...guys? ...::sigh::

[dem00n]

LMFAO

 

It'll be a cold day in hell when an epi nighthawk becomes a collectible. a Casino, yes, thats a Epi original. not a nighthawk or anything else that they pump out other than the sheritans.

 

honestly, i have hada few chinaphones, and they say one thing but you get another. i had a standard that had like a 4 piece body of PLYWOOD. PLYWOOD for cryin out loud! With the thinnest veneer I've ever seen. Not to mention thick nasty poly...

 

i shudder at the thought!

Its plywood of tone woods though. You make it sound more cheap. You know how many god damn companys use the tone wood plywood? Tons, not even China only guitars.

You know tone wood isnt even that important when it comes to a guitar? Yeah you can hear the diffrence but Jimmy page made a Dano sound like god.

[icantbuyafender]

Its plywood of tone woods though. You make it sound more cheap. You know how many god damn companys use the tone wood plywood? Tons, not even China only guitars.

You know tone wood isnt even that important when it comes to a guitar? Yeah you can hear the diffrence but Jimmy page made a Dano sound like god.

 

 

its just misinformative when they ply up tonewood rather than have it from a solid slab. sadly the difference is audible.

 

ya know? I just wish they wouldnt put something on a pedestal when its only a technicality of what they advertise.

 

...I dont even think danos were wood actually. Werent they like particle board?

 

I likes me a U3. those were hella fun. but then again, Dano didnt claim miracles. They knew what they were selling and werent trying to be anything but what they delivered.

[dem00n]

its just misinformative when they ply up tonewood rather than have it from a solid slab. sadly the difference is audible.

 

ya know? I just wish they wouldnt put something on a pedestal when its only a technicality of what they advertise.

 

...I dont even think danos were wood actually. Werent they like particle board?

 

I likes me a U3. those were hella fun. but then again, Dano didnt claim miracles. They knew what they were selling and weren't trying to be anything but what they delivered.

Thats the same with Epi and Gibson. Gibson will always make great sounding guitars and so will epi.

The only difference is that Gibson will be made in USA and that Epi will be made in china with lesser quality stuff then gibson.

Doesn't it make sense?

Its the same with Fender. The Mexican fenders are great, but so are the ones made in USA.

Thers is a diffrence with plain plywood and plywood with tone woods.

[stein]

Its plywood of tone woods though. You make it sound more cheap. You know how many god damn companys use the tone wood plywood? Tons, not even China only guitars.

You know tone wood isnt even that important when it comes to a guitar? Yeah you can hear the diffrence but Jimmy page made a Dano sound like god.

Well, yes and no.

 

There are many guitars that use plywood and are good guitars, and guitars that use plywood on purpose as part of the design. Gibson in fact uses plywood on some of its very best models, namely the ES-335 (and 355) and the Switchmaster.

 

I don't agree that "tonewood" is less important. I think it is vitally important. Even with an electric solidbody, the tone of the guitar accoustically has a DIRECT impact and result on what the pickups put into the amp. While it may not be immediately obvious when first comparing or plugging in, it is definitely there and there are definitely differences.

 

And truly to be fair, when on certain models of Epiphone (not so much this one here we are discussing) that change the construction and use plywood in the construction, it is for cost, not tone. They don't sound better as a result.

 

But, getting to the point where we have woods chosen for sound, usually, it really is for the better. Even if it is considered subtle, when you have a case of, say, an LP specail or an SG, there are some truly fantastic results when you take the time to get to know the guitar.

[icantbuyafender]

Thats the same with Epi and Gibson. Gibson will always make great sounding guitars and so will epi.

The only difference is that Gibson will be made in USA and that Epi will be made in china with lesser quality stuff then gibson.

Doesn't it make sense?

Its the same with Fender. The Mexican fenders are great, but so are the ones made in USA.

Thers is a diffrence with plain plywood and plywood with tone woods.

 

kudos. agreed.

[dem00n]

Well, yes and no.

 

There are many guitars that use plywood and are good guitars, and guitars that use plywood on purpose as part of the design. Gibson in fact uses plywood on some of its very best models, namely the ES-335 (and 355) and the Switchmaster.

 

I don't agree that "tonewood" is less important. I think it is vitally important. Even with an electric solid body, the tone of the guitar accoustically has a DIRECT impact and result on what the pickups put into the amp. While it may not be immediately obvious when first comparing or plugging in, it is definitely there and there are definitely differences.

 

And truly to be fair, when on certain models of Epiphone (not so much this one here we are discussing) that change the construction and use plywood in the construction, it is for cost, not tone. They don't sound better as a result.

 

But, getting to the point where we have woods chosen for sound, usually, it really is for the better. Even if it is considered subtle, when you have a case of, say, an LP specail or an SG, there are some truly fantastic results when you take the time to get to know the guitar.

But tone wood is slowly becoming overrated.

Its been proven that its nothing all that important, it is but then it isnt it.

I had a chance to play one of those metal tele's at Rudy's a few months ago. It was made out of solid aluminum and it sounds amazing. Hands down one of the best teles every played, and the tone was very versatile as well. This proves the fact that tonewood isnt all that needed for a guitar to sound great. For different tones? Yes, but not 100% needed.

[icantbuyafender]

But tone wood is slowly becoming overrated.

Its been proven that its nothing all that important, it is but then it isnt it.

I had a chance to play one of those metal tele's at Rudy's a few months ago. It was made out of solid aluminum and it sounds amazing. Hands down one of the best teles every played, and the tone was very versatile as well. This proves the fact that tonewood isnt all that needed for a guitar to sound great. For different tones? Yes, but not 100% needed.

 

::sigh::

 

call me old fashioned. or just old. 'specially compared to some kids runnin round here.

 

but,

 

I guess we're just suckers for a slab o' mahogany, and maple cap and a set o' buckers.

 

idk. its something about that basic formula that beckons me to resist the robot crap and all these progressive type models (replacing tonewood). Its just... idk.

 

I thought if it wasnt broke, why fix it? meaning, why change a tried and true method?

 

:-/ idk. dem00n, i love some of the recent reissue danos and this one resinwood sonnex my uncle plays religiously, but... i cant shake the bias i have toward solid mahogany.

 

bleh. I guess i was cut from an old mold.

[stein]

But tone wood is slowly becoming overrated.

Its been proven that its nothing all that important, it is but then it isnt it.

I had a chance to play one of those metal tele's at Rudy's a few months ago. It was made out of solid aluminum and it sounds amazing. Hands down one of the best teles every played, and the tone was very versatile as well. This proves the fact that tonewood isnt all that needed for a guitar to sound great. For different tones? Yes, but not 100% needed.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "tonewood". If we call ash or mahagony (or whatever) "tonewood" because it is what a traditional type of guitar is supposed to sound like, I don't believe that means that a guitar can not sound good or better by experimenting or changing the wood. There is no rule that says there can't be improvements.

 

Having said that, it does NOT mean that being succesful at changing the formula or making a great sounding guitar translates into what the guitar is made of or the use of good woods invaled or not important.

 

Or, bluntly, a good experience with a guitar made differenly means that now all crappy sounding guitars sound as good as other guitars.

[Riffster]

But tone wood is slowly becoming overrated.

Its been proven that its nothing all that important, it is but then it isnt it.

I had a chance to play one of those metal tele's at Rudy's a few months ago. It was made out of solid aluminum and it sounds amazing. Hands down one of the best teles every played, and the tone was very versatile as well. This proves the fact that tonewood isnt all that needed for a guitar to sound great. For different tones? Yes, but not 100% needed.

 

Not really, good wood matters just like good metal, the metal guitar you played is not just made out of any metal, it is engineered to be used on a guitar.

 

The difference there is that wood has to be selected while metal alloys can be created with uniform results.

 

When I bought my Gibson Explorer online the first one that came had terrible wood, I realized quickly that no matter how I set that guitar up ir wasn't going to sound good. I sent it back.

[Artie Owl]

[FirstMeasure]

Artie, sometimes you make me actually Laugh out Loud

[damian]

Flaxwood Guitars........

 

James Trussart Guitars........

[Versatile]

The Epi Nighthawk is huge fun and has quality beyond it's price

 

Many tones available and a convincing S/C option

 

The Explorer looks the business as expected

 

And is more imposing visually.....

 

V

 

[Shnate McDuanus]

I'm gonna jump on the "save up" bandwagon.

 

Think of the guitar you'd like to have more than any other guitar on the market. Save up and then when you can afford it, go to a store and try out as many pieces from that model as they will allow you, pick your favorite one out of them and buy it.

 

Of course, if you're really jonesing for a new guitar, and you need one now, I think that just for the sake of diversity it probably makes more sense to go with the Nighthawk. It has more pickups, hardware and features that are different from what you already have, and even if you don't like the single coil on it you can switch it out, or just not use it until you can affort a replacement, or even grow to love it over time. At the same time, I'd think it a good idea to ensure that you "connect" with the model you buy before you take it home, regardless of what it is. But I'm sure you already knew that.

 

Two very good choices, regardless of which one you end up with.

[icantbuyafender]

Maybe a Trad Pro?

[SG FAN]

I'm thinkin' SG Standard ;)