SG FAN Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Don't mean to derail the thread... but I'm not sure I "get" this. Are you saying you researched every cover tune in your (extensive) catalogue to see if the original artist simply improvised in the studio or actually wrote out the lead beforehand? I was wondering the same thing. I know "Crossroads" was improv because it was live, but I'm not so sure "Sunshine" was. I recall reading somewhere that EC wrote the solo to the tune of "Blue Moon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Don't mean to derail the thread... but I'm not sure I "get" this. Are you saying you researched every cover tune in your (extensive) catalogue to see if the original artist simply improvised in the studio or actually wrote out the lead beforehand? Yes, to a certain extent. It's not that hard, most artists have a way of writing. specially within a certain group. In Cream, for example, Clapton made it a point Not to write his leads. That whole band was centered around improv. (BTW, he used Blue Moon as the Hook in sunshine, but did not "Write" the solo since he improvises live). Whitesnake (and a lot of 80's bands) write every part and play them to the note. Aerosmith is a little more tricky, Joe Perry writes his solos but leaves them a little loose. He said so in interviews in the past, so covering one of his solos is a little improv but leave the basic structure of the lead. Find the hooks, embellish the rest. It takes research on each song, which is fantastic in this day and age. All you have to do is look up a couple live versions of the song your learning and listen. If they play the song note for note live, it's up to me to learn in note for note. If it's loose and improvised, like everything Cream, Hendrix, Doors, The Dead or any other Jam Band, then an Improvised approach is suggested. For me, being in a cover band is 40% playing by ear and 60% research (without instrument in hand). Listen to the Studio version of Rihannon, then find a Live Version. I wouldn't be comfortable learning the Studio Version note for note because Fleetwood Mac has a much different approach to that song live. However, you have to balance that with listener expectation. Lets say I'm going to start the lead for "Purple Haze", I'll play the first few measures almost exactly like the record, then start embellishing all over the E melodic minor scale. Just like Hendrix, don't sound just like Hendrix, but that's what Hendrix is doing. But the simple answer to your question is "Yes, I have done research on every song in my extensive catalog of covers. It reflects more than 20 years of an obsessive pastime (and my cover band is just the tip of the iceberg. You should hear the B side stuff I know ). (one more good example) Stranglehold by Nugent. Almost every cover band just goes for that one, but Nugent refers to the lead section as his Masterpiece (when complaining about Sebastian Bach in Damnocracy on Supergroup) leading me to believe that song should be played note for note. the tricky part is not to sterilize a song when trying to play it note for note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG FAN Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Thanx for the insight, FM! The "Blue Moon" part of that solo is one of my favorites, when I play it, I play the first bit note for note then go off on my own after that. I think that solo is some of Clapton's most soulful playing, that song is partly responsible for me picking the Gibson SG as my main guitar. Smooth and crunchy at the same time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The "Wheels of Fire" version, is one of those songs, you cannot listen to, quietly! I always have to crank up the volume, whether it's in the car, or on the home system! Good thing, I have understanding neighbors! ;>) CB I can agree with you on this one, its kinda like Radar Love, the song just keeps getting louder and louder until it either ends or you blow your speakers up, muahahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Fascinating stuff FM. Seriously. In all my years of playing I haven't researched a single song as to whether it was improv or preconceived. I've done a LOT of listening to the song and learning the riffs and such, but never to find oiut if it was improvised or pre written. Not a true comparison to you, though, because I was always the rhythm player, so my parts needed to match the actual song. But, none of the lead players did either. They would either learn the lead as played on the radio, or hit the critical licks and improvise if they felt they had something more "tuneful". Some songs, though, can't be reproduced live, even though the parts were written out for the studio sessions. They were just too complex and involved multiple tracks to get it all down. Avenged Sevenfold is a great example... their song Welcome to The Family has 5 guitar parts in the studio version. According to what I've read, Synister plays the low harmony part when they play live. A lot of Metallica's stuff is a mix of both... Kirk Hammet has said he spent a lot of time writing out the leads for some songs, only to toss them when they got to the studio.... What do you do for those types of songs... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 ZZ Top gets that way, too. Billy Gibbons will over dub three or four guitar parts, and meld them into one for live situations. I try to find a live version to sort of work form, but still try to capture the sound of the record Sometimes it works out better than others. If there's no live version available I just try to figure it out as best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 ZZ Top gets that way, too. Billy Gibbons will over dub three or four guitar parts, and meld them into one for live situations. I try to find a live version to sort of work form, but still try to capture the sound of the record Sometimes it works out better than others. If there's no live version available I just try to figure it out as best I can. You continue to impress. I was telling my wife about your level of dedication to the craft last night. We applaud you... as I seriously don't know anyone who takes it to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 You [FirstMeasure] continue to impress. I was telling my wife about your level of dedication to the craft last night. We applaud you... as I seriously don't know anyone who takes it to that level. +1 I agree. FM - After reading your well written posts, I now understand what you're looking at when putting together an arrangement. It can take a significant amount of time checking the various versions of a song - and as ChanMan put it - that's quite a high level of dedication and study. I tend to focus on one version, but your method is interesting and sounds like it would bring good results. So thanks for taking the time to explain the reasons for the method you use to come up with your arrangements. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Thanks Chan and Kahune That's nice of you to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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