Finding the key by ear

[rct]

ShredAstaire has a pretty awesome avatar, so let's help the kid out.

 

Shred, what's your favorite song? I've probably never heard of the band or the song, so be prepared for my ignorance. Is it Rammstein? One guy in that band is on fire. Schweet.

 

Do you know that song, this favorite of yours? If you know it, do you know it front and back? If no to either of those, do them both before you continue.

 

Do you know what key it is in? If you do know that, good. If you don't, ask someone.

 

Once you know the song front to back, can play it walking around, can sing your favorite part and play it at the same time, you now have a center to listen for. And the way you'll know that center is by the 5th of this song that is your favorite. The fifth is 5 notes away from the key, so if in A, E is the fifth.

 

So don't listen for the ones so much as the 3 and 4 prior to the one that brings the song back to the root, or key. THERE is generally where the fifth is, creating tension, or "suspense" is the word in formal music. I find it easier to hear a chord in it's context as the fifth to be much easier than trying to hear it as the root, or on the 1s of the bars. When I teach student this, well, when I used to teach, they all to a kid took to it quickly.

 

Do you like that Vaughn guy? Get some dumb 12 bar blues, listen to all the turnarounds you can, get to recognize that what you already know you hear is called the 5th. THAT will tell you the key. Get thee a record called EC Was Here, a master lesson in twelve bars is found on the second side, Ramblin and then Further On. Twelve bars that modulate, it's seriously good guitar lessons in very basic stuff. I offer that record not so much for you to cop tired God licks, but to listen to the relative movment of guitar music through really well done 12 bars, so you can feel and hear the fifth, and apply it to everything you hear. I chose that because, well, I like it. You get yer favorite blues records out, but just for as long as it takes to feel that fifth thing.

 

Good luck with it, practice a lot, and I hope this helps. If not, ask.

 

rct

[ShredAstaire]

Well, I AM pretty awesome...but i haven't been a kid for quite a while! ;)

 

I wouldn't say i have a fav song but lets go with this one since i'm on a Kyuss binge at the moment...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NHWF1cCRw0

 

I appreciate the help....anyone else can post stuff in here too eh!

[rct]

Funny! Don't know nothin bout that kinda music, vaguely remember Kyuss. I'll get a guitar out tomorrow or Sunday and go through it, not to tell you what is what, but to point out where you can hear things. At least, I think you'll be able to hear things.

 

rct

[ShredAstaire]

Cool....i will try to work it out based on what I have learned so far as well. Thanks!

[Andy R]

I think I know but won't say. I will PM RTC and see if he concurs.

 

I will tell you the approach I took, Stuff like this is hard for me to hear sometimes.

 

I personally listen for the note that dominates the song.

Once I have what I think is the root I take a guess as to if it is major or minor. ( the mood or type of music usually makes it pretty obvious)

 

To confirm, I just play the major or minor scale of the Root note I hear over top of the music and listen if any notes sound dissonant.

If none do, I am generally right. If there is a note or two that don't sound quite right I will correct them and if I recognize the pattern I know what it is...

If I don't recognize the pattern ( whole steps and half steps etc..) I will write down the notes I hear and see what I can determine from that....

 

Good luck...

 

 

Andy

[mcmurray]

Guys, just so there is no confusion with the nomenclature - there is no 'root' of a scale or a key. A root is a concept that is only concerned with chords.

 

The tonal centre (in other words, as Andy says, the most dominant note) is known as the 'tonic'.

 

A root and a tonic are very different things.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_(music)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_(chord)

 

Carry on.

[daveinspain]

I think I know but won't say. I will PM RTC and see if he concurs.

 

I will tell you the approach I took, Stuff like this is hard for me to hear sometimes.

 

I personally listen for the note that dominates the song.

Once I have what I think is the root I take a guess as to if it is major or minor. ( the mood or type of music usually makes it pretty obvious)

 

To confirm, I just play the major or minor scale of the Root note I hear over top of the music and listen if any notes sound dissonant.

If none do, I am generally right. If there is a note or two that don't sound quite right I will correct them and if I recognize the pattern I know what it is...

If I don't recognize the pattern ( whole steps and half steps etc..) I will write down the notes I hear and see what I can determine from that....

 

Good luck...

 

 

Andy

 

Using your method I would say it's in C major... I used the long susstaining note at the end which is a Which I think is middle C

[Andy R]

Guys, just so there is no confusion with the nomenclature - there is no 'root' of a scale or a key. A root is a concept that is only concerned with chords.

 

The tonal centre (in other words, as Andy says, the most dominant note) is known as the 'tonic'.

 

A root and a tonic are very different things.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Tonic_(music)

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Root_(chord)

 

Carry on.

 

I do interchange (root) with (tonic) if I am referring to a Purely Major or Purely Minor Scale or if a Key is in either Major and or Minor. I see you're point and it makes sense to me as it is difficult to describe a "Root" when you are using a modal scale.

 

Good Stuff!!

[Andy R]

Using your method I would say it's in C major... I used the long susstaining note at the end which is a Which I think is middle C

 

Only playing the scale over the tonic note will not give the answer. you need to play it against other notes that are being played in the song.

 

If you have no other notes than C to play over then it could feasibly either be C Major, C Minor or a mode that has the ( tonic ) of C

 

If they are playing predominately in the ( key of C major) then the notes of the C Major scale ( CDEFGAB) should harmonize pretty well with most all the notes and chords being played through out the song.

 

If they are playing Predominately in the (key of C minor) you should hear dissonance If you Play a C Major scale over it because the (C Minor key will have Eb,Ab,Bb,) which will clash against the E,A,B, That is in C Major.

 

Remember 2 notes that are only a half step apart played at the same time will not sound good if they sound together for any more than a very brief duration such as using them to quickly get from one note to the next. In this case you use them as a "Passing" tone to get to another more harmonious note.

 

 

Andy

[ShredAstaire]

Ok i played with it a bit and i was thinking C major was the right key for that too based on what I have read....that said i have a long way to go for ear training and i could be wrong! :)

[Andy R]

Ok i played with it a bit and i was thinking C major was the right key for that too based on what I have read....that said i have a long way to go for ear training and i could be wrong! :)

 

 

Hmmm.... Is this a song you can play?

[ShredAstaire]

Andy, sounds like I am wrong! ;)

 

I could probably play it...doesn't sound too hard but i have never learned it. I really don't play anyone else's music ever...and I know that represents a big gap in my knowledge. I have a LOT MORE FUN writing riffs and such.

[Andy R]

Andy, sounds like I am wrong! ;)

 

I could probably play it...doesn't sound too hard but i have never learned it. I really don't play anyone else's music ever...and I know that represents a big gap in my knowledge. I have a LOT MORE FUN writing riffs and such.

Nothing wrong with that. You should do what is fun for you.

[rct]

Andy, sounds like I am wrong! ;)

 

I could probably play it...doesn't sound too hard but i have never learned it. I really don't play anyone else's music ever...and I know that represents a big gap in my knowledge. I have a LOT MORE FUN writing riffs and such.

 

I agree. You have enough knowledge to get through this song you are writing or working on now, and that is enough.

 

A cat knows exactly enough stuff about enough stuff to be a cat, and that's all. I am a "keyboard player". I know enough and have enough physical ability to get me through whatever I am working on now, and that's all I need. Same for bass.

 

So anyway, I get a sorta center of C, but since it is mostly that...sound that I call in my head but never outloud Downtuned Overchorused(or something) Triple Recto sounding guitars thingy, I'm not real sure and didn't give it much but a sit down and through with a guitar for a few minutes. I am not at all familiar with the thinking that goes into that kind of song/genre/music, whatever you want to call it, so I have difficulty with this kinda stuff.

 

I think the tonic center ends up on C, but a Cmaj/min, that is, it is root and fifth. The third, the maj/min determinant, is mostly missing, usually because it is easier to play fourths and fifths on the low strings of a guitar and move them fairly quickly. "Riffage". You already know this, you just don't know you know it. That's how most of music theory is.

 

Sometimes the bass or keys can carry the third, gives it a sorta distant feeling, especially in minor variants which is how it is usually done in scarey rock bands.

 

Yeesh that was a long time ago!

 

It is Monday. I am back at work. I rarely use the home kompewtar on weekends or nights because I spend all day at them, so that's why not answering for so long.

 

rct

[Andy R]

I actually learned it ( Just tuned down E and A to (C and G ) and came up with

 

Bb5 - ( Bb and F)

C5 - ( C and G )

Eb5 - ( Eb and Bb)

Ab5 ( Ab and Eb )

Eb5, For the verse

Then the chorus or pre chorus has an arpeggiated C Diminished 5th

CGbC

 

 

Cminor = C, D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb,C

 

So my call is key of Cminor.... Using 5ths also allows a lot of "play room" for major, minor 3rds, etc when playing leads. JMHO