dem00n Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Why? I always see the occasional Norlin Les Paul or SG for sale but not much a Fender strat or tele from the 70's. Was production cut down due to CBS? I remeber someone told me the quality went down but they still made good guitars. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I wish I could give you a good answer. There wasn't a lotta communication about such stuff in those days as there is now. I have a hunch there was a huge crunch of "new brands" coming in like Ibanez and others that likely made a big deal out changing the whole market scene. The Fender Precision of that era was still a good bass. OTOH, Teles likely would be found more in country music regions rather than NYC, IMHO... In the 70s too, I think there was a lotta what I call "retrograde" music in NYC... and that and jazz didn't lend itself much to teles and strats. But that's just a wild guess... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 That's a good question. I think 70's Fenders for the most part look cool, but there are mostly dogs. But, while fewer are actually what I would call good, I think a good 70's Fender is a great guitar. I think a couple factors why they may seem hard to find. For one, hard to find compared to what? They did make a buttload during some years, but not as much as say the late 80's and 90's. They made more than the 60's, but I think for the most part you see them at least as much for sale. The other reason is that for what they are worth, there is not a lot of reason to sell as perhaps a 60's guitar in that a person attached even slightly would not be able to generate the cash selling, but still might have personal value as a collecter. The opposite may be that most have no issue unloading a later Fender. The comparism between CBS Fenders selling and Norlin Gibson's selling is interesting. They both have bad reps compared to other periods. I have to say though that while a Norlin Gibby has some differences that make them less desirable as a whole, it is nothing like what some periods of CBS Fenders are. It is a much bigger problem for Fenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 What made the CBS fenders considered bad? I'm not sure if the bigger headstock really made a tone change that was bad...or the three bolts holding the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat-o-steve Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Well, for one thing...production was not down in the 1970's. In fact, when CBS took over, the production really ramped up, several hundred percent! I see many 1970's Fenders for sale in my area here in NC. I own a 1974 Stratocaster and a 1978 Fender Musicmaster :) Other than the cheap, plated pot metal saddles on my old Strat, I really think the overall quality is very good. Both guitars made it this long and are still highly playable, and sound good too! The 1970's guitars, both Fender and Gibson, got a bad reputation mainly because this is the era when both companies began to monkey around with the traditional designs of their guitars. Fender went with larger headstocks, plated pot metal, and thick poly finishes, while Gibson began making Les Pauls like sandwiches (body)and decreased the headstock angle and added a volute to the back of the headstock. One last thought.....the 1970's Fenders are old enough to be used and well worn, but just not quite old enough to really bring high prices as a vintage guitar, they seem to be right on the verge, so MAYBE everyone that has them is just holding on to them just a little longer to see what happens to the values within the next 9 years :) Be a shame to sell off your stock now and in 5 years see the market prices take off to the moon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 The only thing that makes any single group of guitars all bad, that is, "70's Fenders suck" "Norlin Gibsons blow" is compete and utter ignorance that was then spread like the proverbial wildfire across the vast reaches of the internet. I'm pretty sure most of the time when I hear either of those two assertions that the speaker never once owned either usually because they weren't born yet. All my 70's Fenders and Gibsons weren't great, and they all weren't dogs. Just like every other decade of guitar making. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 A lot of people point to the features and put the blame there for quality, but I don't think it is the real reason. The 3 bolt neck, for example, is actually a great design, and I have NEVER seen a problem with one. (it is NOT the same as the one used on the Japanese ones). But regarding the quality, it is not in the specs like the headstock or the bullet of the bridge. For one, the neck shapes got weird, and for the most part progressed to a point they feel more like just a hunk of random wood than what a neck should feel like. The finishes got real thick, and besides being heavy, the finish on the fretboard coming up onto the frets was NOT something that made it more playable. They also got real heavy, and while weight may be good for the design of a Gibson, (in some cases), it has a drastic effect on the sound of a Fender that takes away from the brightness and twang people normally get a Fender for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thats weird but good points, ill have to look for more 70's Fenders then ill make my verdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinh Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What made the CBS fenders considered bad? I'm not sure if the bigger headstock really made a tone change that was bad...or the three bolts holding the neck. I owned a couple of "3 bolt" Strats in the 70s/80s. It's not the three bolt design that is the problem. It's quite stable in the right circumstances, two woodscrews and a bolt actually hold the neck down as well, if not better, than four woodscrews. The problems were these: First, at the same time as three three bolt neck, Fender had a problem with cutting some neck pockets too large due to worn tooling, which made the necks unstable in general. This got even worse if you used the "tilt neck" feature on the three bolt neck. This left the heel of the neck making contact only with a tiny setscrew, instead of the wood at the back of the neck pocket. If you were unlucky enough to get a Strat with a "big"neck pocket and a shallow neck pitch, requring use of the "tilt" feature, the neck wobbled all over the place, killing the sustain and making the tuning unstable. However one with a properly cut neck pocket , and the "Tilt" screw backed out, is completly stable. The big headstock was intended to correct problems with the headstock warping, and the general opinion is that the increased mass actually improved sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 i seen a black beauty and i saw some vintage a local guitar place once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I owned a couple of "3 bolt" Strats in the 70s/80s. It's not the three bolt design that is the problem. It's quite stable in the right circumstances, two woodscrews and a bolt actually hold the neck down as well, if not better, than four woodscrews. The problems were these: First, at the same time as three three bolt neck, Fender had a problem with cutting some neck pockets too large due to worn tooling, which made the necks unstable in general. This got even worse if you used the "tilt neck" feature on the three bolt neck. This left the heel of the neck making contact only with a tiny setscrew, instead of the wood at the back of the neck pocket. If you were unlucky enough to get a Strat with a "big"neck pocket and a shallow neck pitch, requring use of the "tilt" feature, the neck wobbled all over the place, killing the sustain and making the tuning unstable. However one with a properly cut neck pocket , and the "Tilt" screw backed out, is completly stable. The big headstock was intended to correct problems with the headstock warping, and the general opinion is that the increased mass actually improved sustain. Good points about the 3 bolt. regardless of which method that has been used, the neck pocket has proven to be the most important factor. While a 3 blot can not solve the problem there completely, it actually gives a better chance than the standard 4 bolt. But it is NOT a fix for a solid neck pocket. In fact, the ONLY reason the bolt-on neck even works and has worked is when the pocket and neck are cut right and there is contact at the heel. To clarify further, the 70's 3 bolt with the "tilt" adjustment is actually a much better deal than the 4 bolt. There are still 4 wood screws holding the neck, but 2 of them are on a plate that is in a route to eliminate slip, and also the "adjustment" screw acts as a lock for the plates. The "3rd" bolt with the plate and lockscrew combined with the way the 2 wood screws are attached to the neck makes a far stronger attachment than 2 wood screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 i seen a black beauty and i saw some vintage a local guitar place once Ooookaaaay?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What made the CBS fenders considered bad? I'm not sure if the bigger headstock really made a tone change that was bad...or the three bolts holding the neck. Some good proper info for you dem00n posted above..... So, now for my unimportant post; CBS Fenders aren't nearly as bad as the NBC or ABC Fenders.....just sayin'..... [flapper] ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 i seen a black beauty and i saw some vintage a local guitar place once Um, and, uh, and um.........I saw a vintage black beauty pre CBS on a street corner....so what ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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