JamGuy Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Greeting all, I just purchased an Epi LP without any pickups or wiring...everything else is there. It seemed like a good deal and I thought it would be a fun project. This will be my first non-Fender project so I'm wondering what to look out for. I had been considering a few other choices (complete guitars) but this seems like it will give me exactly what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on an affordable pickup set? I play through a Fender Twin Reissue... lots of classic rock, jam bandy, and some jazz and blues. I'm looking for something "classic" sounding but will a little extra gusto for soloing. I love the Dead and know Jerry often used the Super D's. I was thinking of the DiMarzio 36th anniv neck and the Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge? Any advice on pups and wiring would be really helpful as I just don't know so much about Epi/Gibson/Les Pauls... I'll get some pictures up once it arrives, Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm looking at the Super D and their PAF combo as well ... for my Wilshire. It seems like it should be pretty good combo. CTS Pots and Switchcraft jack and toggle are considered the premium for electronics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Cool... thanks for the info. I have a 36th Anniv in the bridge position of one of my strats and really like it. I'm thinking of going for it... it seems like it might be perfect (and more affordable), plus, if it can help me nail some of those Jerry tones I'll be stoked! \:D/ I don't want to split the pups, just wire it up vintage style...can anyone recommend an easy to read schematic? I can probably find one but if someone has one they really like I'd be interested in it. Also... what size knob pointers will I need or does it matter? It's all this tinkery little stuff that I don't know about in regards to Epi/Gibson replacement parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Those pups sound like a cool idea JamGuy. As LSAR already stated, CTS for the pots and Switchcraft for the toggle switch and jack are definitely the way to go. Orange drop caps are always a nice addition as well. A friend of mine recently put Mojotone "Vitamin T Oil filled" .022 caps in his Epi LP Custom Black Back and they also sound fantastic. I've been considering getting a Seymour Duncan "Hot Rodded" set of pups for my Epi LP, they're reasonably priced and from what I have heard are great in LP's. I still haven't decided yet. Good luck in your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Ive just fallen in love with Axesrus "Classic 50s" Humbuckers and check here for wiring diagrams http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 PAFs usually work best in LP's. Seymour Duncan makes some of the best ('59, PG, Seth, A2P). I would not go with a hot ceramic PU in the bridge slot, especially for classic rock and blues (which is what I play). Nor would I use a JB, as they are very hit-or-miss in mahogany; lots of guys have had bad experiences with that (JB's were made for brighter woods, and are much more reliable in those). Check the Duncan site for wiring diagrams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 I've been reading a lot about the Jimmy Page wiring... that would take advantage of the coil spitting options of these two dimarzio pickups and open up some new tones. Wiring the sucker up might have me pulling my hair out but it's one of the reasons I was initially interested in the Epi LP Trad. Pro... I just wasn't nuts about the finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydots Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 New pickups are only a small part of the game with an Epi.. tuners, nut, fret job, covers (open PUP's just don't have that smooth creamy sound), Duncan 59's, Sprague caps, CTS pots, vintage wire and that Bigsby just made this sing. It sounds and plays as good as it looks... Notice how the strings are exactly aligned with the poles... little things make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Greeting all, I just purchased an Epi LP without any pickups or wiring...everything else is there. It seemed like a good deal and I thought it would be a fun project. This will be my first non-Fender project so I'm wondering what to look out for. I had been considering a few other choices (complete guitars) but this seems like it will give me exactly what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on an affordable pickup set? I play through a Fender Twin Reissue... lots of classic rock, jam bandy, and some jazz and blues. I'm looking for something "classic" sounding but will a little extra gusto for soloing. I love the Dead and know Jerry often used the Super D's. I was thinking of the DiMarzio 36th anniv neck and the Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge? Any advice on pups and wiring would be really helpful as I just don't know so much about Epi/Gibson/Les Pauls... I'll get some pictures up once it arrives, Cheers. Nice find. lots of folk rip out all that stuff and replace it anyway. There is a really cool sticky thread over in the epiphone lounge with loads of really good info on wiring and other guitar projects with lots of helpful advice and tips. If this is your first project away from fender style geets then remember that you are best using 500k pots for the volume and tone controls. And in terms of pickups, the most impressive general purpose pickups I have ever encountered for a reasonable price are a set of wilkinson WVC humbuckers, I have two sets, zebras with 4 core wiring for coil splitting and a set of chrome cover ones i use in my sg 400. they cost about £25 each, but if you look on evil bay you can get the pair for £25 or £30. check this link for Animalfarms DIY thread. LINK TO DIY THREAD P.S here is what the wilkinsons sound like in action. most of the lead work was recorded on the neck pickup with coil splitter engaged for the intro lead parts, and the crunchy outro guitar was recorded on the bridge pickup . http://soundcloud.com/blueb4sunrise/08-find-the-answers-bigneils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I've been reading a lot about the Jimmy Page wiring... that would take advantage of the coil spitting options of these two dimarzio pickups and open up some new tones. Wiring the sucker up might have me pulling my hair out but it's one of the reasons I was initially interested in the Epi LP Trad. Pro... I just wasn't nuts about the finish. I've installed the 4 push-pull Jimmy Page system in several LP's and 335's. Not that hard to do. All you need is two humbuckers with 4 leads each, and a 4 pot guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've installed the 4 push-pull Jimmy Page system in several LP's and 335's. Not that hard to do. All you need is two humbuckers with 4 leads each, and a 4 pot guitar. Yeah, I think I'm up to the task. I've found what I think is a pretty good schematic to follow so I should be in good shape...also a conversion chart for wiring color by pickup manufacturer in case it's different. We'll see...it'll be a month or so before I can order up the pickups and the other odds and ends I'll need to finisher her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Well make sure you pop back when you get the other parts, don,t forget to take a few pictures either.....we like a bit of guitar porn round here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Howdy all... Well, she arrived yesterday and I'm pretty happy with it! The top looks real nice I think... I'm guessing it's the honeyburst finish? Anyhow, thought I'd share a few pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Nice lookin' top on that guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 After exploring the idea of the Jimmy Page push/pull configuration, I'm becoming less enchanted with the idea. First of all, I'm not playing Zeppelin style rock, nor do I have a Marshal stack. I have no interest in copping Jimmy's tones or playing in a Zeppelin cover band. It was just the idea of all the different tones that I was attracted to. First of all, I've got a Twin Reverb Reissue (and a Mustang III for practice) so right there, it's going to be a major diversion from the classic LP/Marshal combo. I'm also reconsidering the pickups I had previously mentioned. Love him or hate him, Jerry Garcia always sounded like Jerry, no matter what guitar he was playing and I know that simply installing the same pickup (Dimarzio Super Distortion) isn't going to make me sound anymore like him (as much as I'd love to believe it ) I'm thinking that a more simple, traditional Les Paul tone is what I should be aiming for. I really like the Allman Bros. too but don't know what amp Duane or the boys used. So.... I guess I'm back to square one (not exactly, I've got the guitar at least) In re-examining pickup choices, I've been checking out videos of different choices but it's hard to judge based on videos with so many variables... recording methods, playing style, amps, effects, caps and cap values, etc. Not to mention, the LP crowd loves the hard rock and finding videos of clean LP/Twin tones is a challenge. I've been down this road before with chasing the perfect strat tone and as a result have three of them now... I'd love to experiment with as many LP's but the little lady won't have it! I guess I'd like to end up with a LP that won't leave me wanting another one anytime soon. Oddly, I have been considering the Seymour Duncan Slash pickups.... odd because I'm not a GnR fan but I like the sound of them from what I've heard (when I can find a video that isn't some GnR cover...sorry if you're a huge fan, no insults intended) Would I be fair in assuming they are like PAF's but with some extra nuts to them? I don't want to splurge for super expensive boutique pups, I'm thinking that $200 is my budget. Well, I guess it's time to explore some more options and reviews and watch a few more YouTube vids) Suggestions and insight would be most helpful at this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm thinking that a more simple, traditional Les Paul tone is what I should be aiming for. Suggestions and insight would be most helpful at this time! JamGuy, First, Great looking guitar! Next, just my personal like and nothing to do with what you might like, but..... I'm a big fan of PAF style pickups. I also like wiring with vintage cloth, braided, push-back wire. This is the switch I"m putting in a Gibby, if I ever get the chance to finish it. I use the same setup in my Epis. I just use short switches instead of long (post 34): http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/67050-lp-redo/page__view__findpost__p__916360 As to wiring, again only a personal preference. 50's dependent with PIO caps. CTS 500k. Linear volumes and audio tones. This is my LP special but, I do all my Pauls this way: Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks Willy... Yeah, I'm thinking more and more about just going simple... if I want to noodle around with the JP wiring scheme I can always pick up a cheap Epi SG to experiment with sometime down the line. I'm still on the fence with the pickups... either the SD Slash or maybe some Klein humbuckers... love the Klein 65's that are in my strat and the audio and video clips I found of their 59's and Duke's were pretty impressive. I think Klein pups are pretty underrated and only because there aren't as many reviews to be found on the web. I may roll the dice on a set of those. So I just need to get some pots, wire, caps, and a jack plate (and the pups of course) and that'll be that. In your photo Willy I noticed what looks like the Mojotone Vitamin T PIO caps... perhaps I'll give those a whirl. What value caps do you suggest, .022uf or a combination? I'm going to try what you have rolling with the linear volume pots and audio tone pots, I've seen a few post where folks have mentioned the benefits of that arrangement. I was also thinking of shielding the cavity.... this one looks particularly trashy with globs of shielding paint here and there, and spots where there's none. Couldn't hurt I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 JamGuy, The caps I use are 400v .022 Russian Military PIOs. Frankly, I think anything over 100v is just fine. Some will argue that you get a smoother sound with larger voltages due to the increase in dielectric material. If there is, I can't hear it. Additionally, if you get up into the 600v range, you are starting to limit your space with some very large caps. As to the caps, the Russian PIOs can be bought off ebay for a small percentage of what what the big name caps cost. In fact, the expensive Bumble Bee Repos that are out there are only Russian Caps that have been painted to resemble the old Bees. With the Russian caps, although costing a couple bucks, they are cheep enough that you can always buy a couple of sets and test the tone response for yourself. I like the .022 but as you roll them off some say they get too dark. Many of those people like to use .015. My tests have lead me to believe that if you are going that way there is not a significant enough difference between the .022 and the .015. If I were going to do that on one or both pups I would go even further to the .010 caps. They are easy enough to test with a couple of wires and some alligator clips. In these pics I was testing some orange drops: ... As to the pots themselves, It is my belief that linear volumes work best with a 50's wiring setup. It produces a even volume roll off as well as a smoother more natural sound. http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/WireLibrary-Gibson.html If I were going modern then I might consider audio volumes. Then again I never go modern. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Duane usually used a 50 watt Marshall...I-don't-remember-what-kind, in a halfstack, or at least all the pictures I've ever seen show a Marshall, and I had read somewhere it was a 50 watt head, although, he WAS Duane, so he most likely had a ton of amps at his disposal...but then again, it's like Garcia, no matter what he had, he sounded like Duane Allman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 After exploring the idea of the Jimmy Page push/pull configuration, I'm becoming less enchanted with the idea. First of all, I'm not playing Zeppelin style rock, nor do I have a Marshal stack. I have no interest in copping Jimmy's tones or playing in a Zeppelin cover band. It was just the idea of all the different tones that I was attracted to...I'm thinking that a more simple, traditional Les Paul tone is what I should be aiming for. I really like the Allman Bros. too but don't know what amp Duane or the boys used. Suggestions and insight would be most helpful at this time! Jimmy Page didn't develop this wiring system until long after Zeppelin, on his signature Gibson LP, so that has nothing to do with your decision. He didn't get any of his tones from this wiring system. What his post-Zeppelin 4 push-pull system does is let you combine coil cut, phase, series, and parallel sounds, which work for any genre, clean or distorted. Very handy wiring system giving any player more tonal options. All of the great LP users back then used stock PU's (Clapton, Page, Green, Beck, Bloomfield, Allman, etc), which were PAF types, and Seymour Duncan makes some of the best PAF's today, like '59's, PG's, and Seth's. A2P's (Slash) aren't true PAF's, but very similar; they're a little warmer than most PAF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks for all the info! This is all really helpful stuff... that's interesting to know about the wiring of the Page LP being a post-zeppelin thing... I had no idea. I appreciate the heads up on looking for Russian PIO caps... I don't want to spend more than a few bucks a piece on them. As far as pickups, I'm really leaning towards a set of Kleins. Again, I just can't believe how much I like the 65's I got for my strat and have heard nothing but positive things about other pickups they're making. Another question about pickups... what are T-Tops? Is this just a later version of the PAF style humbucker? Klein offers a hybrid PAF/T-Top called "The Duke"... are these like PAF's with a little extra output? How might they compare tonally? Here's a link...KLEIN "THE DUKE" They are more reasonably priced than his 59's though I'm sure the extra $$$ would be well spent... I'm just trying to keep a lid on my budget for this project. Again, thanks for all the help! Cheers, JamGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 what are T-Tops? Is this just a later version of the PAF style humbucker? Yes, well sort of... Take a little time and read this: http://home.provide.net/~cfh/paf.html I have a set of pat# pickups from '75-'76. They are among the early stamped backs and likely T's. (I've never removed the nickel covers to find out for sure.) Previous were pat# sticker backs. Before that were the PAF's. Most of your original hand wound PAF pickups came in around 7.5k to 9k. By '63 around 7.5k was the standard, give or take .25k. (mine come in at 7.5k and 7.7k.) I only mention this because at 9.5k and 10k the Klein Dukes come in a little on the hot side. That may not be a bad thing if you are looking for a little extra bite. I'm not familiar with them so I can not judge. I will say that by the time you get up around and over $100 a pickup, there are many choices out there. Blueman has put up some very good insights. Also, keep in mind what Matiac wrote: "he WAS Duane... no matter what he had, he sounded like Duane Allman." (indicative of not only Duane but all great players) In addition, with today's electronics the amp and effects process can be equally important. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Lover Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Have you ever tried the Classic Rock Seymour Duncan Pack which has a Jeff Beck SH-4 and a Sh-59 Neck Pichups, which can be gotten just about everywhere for about $100 or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hi all, Thanks for the info on the pups Willy... I found that yesterday but it was all a bit overwhelming. It's taken me years to absorb all the Fender info on that end of that site... guess I just need to spend more time on the Gibson end . So, it sounds like the Dukes are hotter that real PAFs or T-Tops... no matter, I think I might like them. The Bill Lawrence ceramic pups in my L6-S are HOT HOT HOT and I love those, though with the varitone switch it's easy to tame them a bit. I think I just need to start pulling the trigger purchasing parts and I'm guessing it'll all be good in the end. I found some PIO caps on ebay yesterday so those are on the way, I have some Alpha pots kicking around but am thinking of just getting some new CTS pots. They're cheap enough and seem to last forever so it's probably worth it. The comment about Duane (or anybody else) was well taken. I've been playing long enough to know that a pickup set isn't going to make me sound like a particular guitarist... that's a complicated recipe which has a lot to do with playing style, hence, great players sound great even when playing other gear. I think back to a show The Dead played in 81... Jerry was playing a Yamaha SSC like my first electric and just killed it... Jerry all the way! For the life of me then, I couldn't understand why the hell I couldn't get my Yamaha to sound like that . Well, I'm no Jerry...and nor do I have the stacks of processing gear, amps, or effects... and I'm stoked I still have all 10 fingers! So, I'm guessing I'll need long shaft pots or will short shaft work out for me... the top doesn't seem that thick to me but again, I'm just getting all this epi/gibson stuff figured out. ;) Have a great day gents...it's off to work for me. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamGuy Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Well, after some more internet exploring, I figured I'd need to get the short pots. I grabbed 2 linear and audio, some wire, some grover deluxe tuner with the greenish buttons, and the rest of the odd n' ends except for pickups. Klein offers a monthy special on pickups and I'm curious to bee what this months special will be before making any decisions. Thanks again to all of you who helped me out... these forums are great. I'm sure I'll be back with pickup & wiring questions....I'll try to get some more pics up as it comes along. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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