LSAR Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Trying to get the right(ish) sound for the solo to "Sappy" by Nirvana I was playing around with pup combos, coil taps, tone etc. and noticed that there is absolutely no difference between 1 and 10 on the bridge pup tone control... Scratchy pots, switch problems etc. I've heard of, but this is new to me. And I will open it up later to see if I notice anything quite obviously wrong, but figured I'd ask first... I've also considered getting a knob that goes to 11, but I don't think that'll help much...any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It could be a ground wire to the tone pot problem. You would still get sound, but no tone change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 The ground wire is the thin black one they attach to some contact point with the bridge right? That appears to be attached to the neck pup tone... There also doesn't appear to be a cap attached to the tone control in question...and there are a lot of very thin wires all over the place... I've gotta re-size my pics here, then I'll post 'em to show what I mean a bit more clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Pics: This one works: This one does not: Side view: From above: I usually just leave it at 10 and don't think about it, so this might never have worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Broken cap wire? Possibility Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeladdie Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 In the bottom picture, it looks like there is a wire with black cloth covering that isn't connected on one end. Can't really tell, but it might have to be connected to the square capacitor to it's left. HTH Edit: Willy beat me to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 There also doesn't appear to be a cap attached to the tone control in question... Broken cap wire? Possibility Willy Yes I realized that, I guess I just wasn't too clear in saying... Thanks though! I think I'm going to take the oppurtunity to replace my pups and electronics... Where can I get CTS short split shaft pots, some good caps, as well as a switchcraft jack and toggle at a reasonable price...? RS Guitarworks would cost me about $145, and I'm really thinking I don't want to spend that on just the electronics... I'd like to order everything from one place if possible, to avoid excess shipping costs... EDIT: Nevermind, I found what I was looking for at Amplified Parts, except with Bourns pots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Okay, so I've got a plan, I just need a little info. I'm going to get new electronics for the Jr. so I've got them when I get a new PUP for it in a few weeks, as well as (for now) just the cap that I need to replace. Get a cheap radio shack soldering iron, and fix it. Noob questions: Which cap should I use? I know it is either .22 or .022, but I don't know which, I'm looking at the Orange Drop 715P Caps or the Mallory 150M Axial Coupling Caps. I don't know what "Axial Coupling" means, is it of any importance? Anyone have any recommendations between the two? Is it okay to bend the wire, or whatever the proper term may be that is on the cap? :mellow: I'm a little bit clueless about this stuff, but I would like to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 What kind of guitar is it? What pups you getting? And, what kind of sound are you looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueEpiphone Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Okay, so I've got a plan, I just need a little info. I'm going to get new electronics for the Jr. so I've got them when I get a new PUP for it in a few weeks, as well as (for now) just the cap that I need to replace. Get a cheap radio shack soldering iron, and fix it. Noob questions: Which cap should I use? I know it is either .22 or .022, but I don't know which, I'm looking at the Orange Drop 715P Caps or the Mallory 150M Axial Coupling Caps. I don't know what "Axial Coupling" means, is it of any importance? Anyone have any recommendations between the two? Is it okay to bend the wire, or whatever the proper term may be that is on the cap? :mellow: I'm a little bit clueless about this stuff, but I would like to learn. Its actually two terms. Coupling refers to passing an AC signal between two points (like between two different stages of amps) while blocking DC current that might otherwise flow between stages and disrupt the circuit(s). Axial refers to the arraingement of the leads on the component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 What kind of guitar is it? What pups you getting? And, what kind of sound are you looking for? I need one cap to fix the bridge tone control on my Wilshire. And I'm planning to get Bourns audio and linear 500K pots, as well as a Switchcraft jack as an upgrade for my LP Junior. I'm planning to get a Super Distortion for the Jr. in a few weeks. The Wilshire will get new pup(s) in a couple of months, at which point I will be upgrading all of it's electronics as well. I just need one cap to keep it going until then. I play a lot of grunge, 80s rock, older metal etc. of just about all kinds. Not much clean stuff. Its actually two terms. Coupling refers to passing an AC signal between two points (like between two different stages of amps) while blocking DC current that might otherwise flow between stages and disrupt the circuit(s). Axial refers to the arraingement of the leads on the component. So I assume this wouldn't be something to use on a guitar's tone control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Which cap should I use? I know it is either .22 or .022, but I don't know which, LSAR, Orange Drops are a favorite of many people. I normally either use them or PIO caps. (paper in oil) What comes stock in most Epiphones is .022 microfarad usually rated at 100 volts. You can bend the wires to suit your needs as long as you do not break them or harm the capacitor. The wires can also be cut to the length needed for your situation. The correct symbol is .022μF with a funky u. Things to consider: Guitar voltage would probably measure out in very small voltage. (never actually measured it) Probably millivolts or microvolts. Any capacitor rated at 100v or more would work just fine. The size of the capacitor is determined by the voltage it will handle. In other words a 600v cap is quite large. Some people say that the larger caps (having more dielectric material) make a difference. If this is true, I can't hear it. I usually use 200v or 400v depending on availability. 600v can be used but they take up a lot of room and can be inconvenient in terms of space. Only other consideration would be that once installed I would not want the cap to be contacting the foil shield material as it could cause a hum. Hope this helps, Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Excellent info, Willy, as usual.. and great job spotting the broken lead especially with that foil shielding in the background. If I could mention a small tidbit, it would be to avoid bending the leads of components at any point near the body (goes for nearly all electronic components) as strain near the body will fatigue the solid wire leads quickly. Bending the leads at least an 1/8" away from the body (further is better in most cases), and in gradual bends, will insure that leads aren't weakened by bending. FWIW, bending leads just outside of the body can damage the internal connections within some components. Regards, Bill LSAR, Orange Drops are a favorite of many people. I normally either use them or PIO caps. (paper in oil) What comes stock in most Epiphones is .022 microfarad usually rated at 100 volts. You can bend the wires to suit your needs as long as you do not break them or harm the capacitor. The wires can also be cut to the length needed for your situation. The correct symbol is .022μF with a funky u. Things to consider: Guitar voltage would probably measure out in very small voltage. (never actually measured it) Probably millivolts or microvolts. Any capacitor rated at 100v or more would work just fine. The size of the capacitor is determined by the voltage it will handle. In other words a 600v cap is quite large. Some people say that the larger caps (having more dielectric material) make a difference. If this is true, I can't hear it. I usually use 200v or 400v depending on availability. 600v can be used but they take up a lot of room and can be inconvenient in terms of space. Only other consideration would be that once installed I would not want the cap to be contacting the foil shield material as it could cause a hum. Hope this helps, Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 avoid bending the leads of components at any point near the body (goes for nearly all electronic components) as strain near the body will fatigue the solid wire leads quickly. Bending the leads at least an 1/8" away from the body (further is better in most cases), and in gradual bends, will insure that leads aren't weakened by bending. FWIW, bending leads just outside of the body can damage the internal connections within some components. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I'm going to get new electronics for the Jr. so I've got them when I get a new PUP for it in a few weeks, as well as (for now) just the cap that I need to replace. Get a cheap radio shack soldering iron, and fix it. Be careful about the wattage of cheapo soldering irons, it's easy to overheat components and burn them out - pots and caps especially. I'd suggest a Weller soldering station with variable adjust if you can afford it. It can save you many hours of frustration and money on buggered parts - trust me, I learned this the hard way. Here's a thread: http://forum.gibson....__1#entry789393 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Broken cap wire? Possibility Willy What kind of git is this - to compare wiring diagrams.....? Good catch, Senor Willy - I kept looking, and looking at it, then further down at the heatshrink on the bare wire to prevent it from grounding out on the side of the pot before it contacted the input terminal at the pot. I'm scratching my head - has this Git been worked on before? a Set-up like this isn't standard factory wiring to the "best of my knowledge". Geez... Are you game to reconnect the broken leads - either alligator clip jumper or just resolder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 An good alternative to a dedicated soldering atation (generally fairly expensive units) is to buy a gizmo commonly named a Router Speed Control (Harbor Freight ~$12 on sale) to be able to adjust the heat of a soldering iron. This unit doesn't regulate/control the temperature like a soldering station usually does, but it gives the user a convenient way to turn down the heat on an otherwise over-rated soldering iron. Preventing overheating will extend the life of the iron's tips in most cases, and prevent damage to sensitive parts/components. Some folks have used wall switch type lamp dimmers, but they generally need additional parts for safety and convenience. The HF unit has a power cord and a receptacle for plugging a soldering iron into, already built in. Those Weller units are nice units for a service bench where more sophisticated equipment is generally needed, such as low voltage, isolated power and tight temperature regulation. BTW, the curly metal tip cleaning material shown with the one Weller unit is, the best way to keep tips clean (IMO far better than a damp sponge), and can commonly be found in the kitchen utensils area of many stores, as pot scrubbers. The stuff I've bought is stainless steel, and a pack of 4 golf ball-sized wads only cost $1, where tool sellers sometimes sell this stuff for up to $10 for a single one. I used steel wool many years ago, until I transferred a tiny strand from the iron tip to a circuit board, and a hard time finding the short that it had caused. Regards, Bill Be careful about the wattage of cheapo soldering irons, it's easy to overheat components and burn them out - pots and caps especially. I'd suggest a Weller soldering station with variable adjust if you can afford it. It can save you many hours of frustration and money on buggered parts - trust me, I learned this the hard way. Here's a thread: http://forum.gibson....__1#entry789393 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Be careful about the wattage of cheapo soldering irons, it's easy to overheat components and burn them out - pots and caps especially. I'd suggest a Weller soldering station with variable adjust if you can afford it. It can save you many hours of frustration and money on buggered parts - trust me, I learned this the hard way. Here's a thread: http://forum.gibson....__1#entry789393 Well, I would love to get a nice soldering iron,if I had a nice ammount of soldering to do. At the moment I only foresee using it the once...for now, the rest of the work I have planned I plan to get done professionally...I can't really imagine spending that for something I'll only use once... What would be considered a good wattage for just unsoldering the current cap, then soldering a new one on? What kind of git is this - to compare wiring diagrams.....? Good catch, Senor Willy - I kept looking, and looking at it, then further down at the heatshrink on the bare wire to prevent it from grounding out on the side of the pot before it contacted the input terminal at the pot. I'm scratching my head - has this Git been worked on before? a Set-up like this isn't standard factory wiring to the "best of my knowledge". Geez... Are you game to reconnect the broken leads - either alligator clip jumper or just resolder? I don't think simply resoldering the leads or using clips would work...the lead broke off from inside the cap... The guitar is my Wilshire Pro... Volume and tone for each PUP, with a push-pull coil tap on both volumes...I'd think that things would resemble and LP or SG with coil taps on the volumes, but it's a bit of a mess: If you want pics of any specific areas, or closer up on an are or bigger then let me know... Thanks Lefty Bill, I'll remember that. Willy, it does appear that these caps aren't particularly small... but the 630V Mallory 150 appears to be smaller than the 600V Orange Drop. I think I can still fit it in, so as long as it works, I don't think it'll be a problem... Lefty Bill...you posted again while I was typing. I'm only planning to use this the once, so adding another $20 plus shipping for that Router Speed Control probably won't happen... but thanks for the info. I will pick up some of the curly metal stuff too... EDIT: Amplified parts has gotten the bourns pots, a switchcraft jack and one of their "MOD Oil Caps" and an Orange drop in the mail to me... The orange drop will be for the Wilshire, and the rest will be the future electronics for my Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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