james_edward Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 "Foto-flame" is actually painted on. It is a printing process. I have never seen it done, and to be truthful it is just a guess on my part that this guitar is foto-flamed. But it does explain to me why there would be flame and figure seen on the top while at the same time showing original grain. The grain pattern shown in the neck pocket is all the same direction, but also gets smaller to bigger from side to side, and is in a fan pattern. If it is bookmatched, it would be a chevron. It is impossible to flip and find the same fan pattern as well as the smaller to bigger on the other side. This piece practically proves it is one piece because if you follow the grain pattern, the piece right above or from the side will have a different grain pattern had it been flipped or rotated. Easy enough to tell if it is foto-flamed: real flame will change from light to dark depending on the angle. The light parts will be dark looking from one side, and the dark parts light. On this body, at the seam it shows light running into dark at the center. If they don't change from any angle, it is foto-flamed. That’s the problem with internet forums, too many people with no experience except on screen voicing opinions based on nothing. I’m not getting into it with someone who has no basis for their opinion except what they’ve read on-line, get back to me after 35 years in the industry and then you'll have a credible basis for your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateo69 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 The grain pattern shown in the neck pocket is all the same direction, but also gets smaller to bigger from side to side, and is in a fan pattern. If it is bookmatched, it would be a chevron. It is impossible to flip and find the same fan pattern as well as the smaller to bigger on the other side. This piece practically proves it is one piece because if you follow the grain pattern, the piece right above or from the side will have a different grain pattern had it been flipped or rotated. Hey guys, I'm not trying to start a verbal war about woodworking, but check out this pic. You can clearly see the seam of the 2-piece Mahogany body going thru the pickup cavity, but not with the Maple top. Yes, you do see the grain of the Maple, and it appears to randomly line up with the grain on the top, but if you look closely there are many of the grain lines that don't line up. And there should still be a seam down the middle in my opinion. I agree with STEIN that this is either a foto-flame or an extremely thin veneer. I also asked Fujigen if they knew how many guitars were made with this bolt-on neck style and they replied: We're not sure how many pcs of 'bolt-on' LP we've made before. Anyway Gibson ordered us to make the bolt-on models due to cutting manufacturing costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 That’s the problem with internet forums, too many people with no experience except on screen voicing opinions based on nothing. Dammit people, listen to the man! He's built a telecaster before! He's automatically an expert on the legitimacy of an obscure Epiphone that he has no way of examining first-hand! Throw up your hands! It must be fake, because he says so! (Edited to add cute kitteh cats, because apparently I hurt James' feelings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 That’s the problem with internet forums, too many people with no experience except on screen voicing opinions based on nothing. I’m not getting into it with someone who has no basis for their opinion except what they’ve read on-line, get back to me after 35 years in the industry and then you'll have a credible basis for your opinion. Why the hate? I honestly don't see where I would have offended you. I certainly didn't mean to somehow insult you or belittle what knowledge or experience you may have by disagreeing. It's the EPI! FORUM! MAN!!! And it's the CHRISTMAS season! Can't we be friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yes, the early nineties is whent hey started using the clipped-ear headstock. I've never seen one on a Japanese model though. Apparently ww have a new/old breed of Epiphone here. This is HUGE news man! This is like the EPI FORUM equivalent of finding a 10th planet in the solar system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 This is HUGE news man! This is like the EPI FORUM equivalent of finding a 10th planet in the solar system. Its more like finding out that they upgraded Pluto back to a planet when no one was looking. Its speculated (by loonies) that the 10th planet in the solar system is Nibiru The Destroyer and is on course to cause mass planetary chaos, if not outright destruction, which would be more on par with a combination of a Zakk Wylde signature guitar, a Marshall Mini-Stack and a toilet. I wonder if Greg is even reading this thread...:huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There are many wood surfacing techniques that I'm not familiar with. I've seen numerous different examples of surface appearance which aren't the substrate material, and the surface "grain" process definitely does look to be printed or a photo-effect, thinner than a sheet of paper. The mention that the production order included cost-cutting features would imply that this model version was intended to be less expensive to produce than other versions. Here is an example of real wood veneer that is extremely thin.. they claim as thin as .004", and that's much thinner than typical furniture veneers I've seen on old furniture items (don't know about new furniture). https://www.inventables.com/technologies/thin-wood-veneer I've also seen old hand-applied graining finishes of the 1920s, but newer examples, too (applied over, you guessed it, particle board - ACK!) I can tell from your most excellent pics, that the clear applied to the guitar is nowhere near the thick buildup I've seen on the cheaper models such as the Special II (hardly any comparison in instruments, but just an observation). The Made in Japan aspect can be a bit blurry at times, as I've read that Epiphone has sold models which were fabricated/built-and-finished in Japan, while other MIJ models were assembled and completed in Japan, but with components (namely necks or bodies) which were fabricated in Korea, Indonesia or China (possibly other locations). How manufacturers keep track of all this global materials shifting, I have no idea. If they were my products, I would be apprehensive about quality issues of having several parts from different locations (where material sources often fluctuate). Air cargo and shipping costs can't be so cheap so as to not be a factor. I believe you have a unique, quality instrument Mateo.. definitely a keeper. I hope it plays as well as it looks. Bill Hey guys, I'm not trying to start a verbal war about woodworking, but check out this pic. You can clearly see the seam of the 2-piece Mahogany body going thru the pickup cavity, but not with the Maple top. Yes, you do see the grain of the Maple, and it appears to randomly line up with the grain on the top, but if you look closely there are many of the grain lines that don't line up. And there should still be a seam down the middle in my opinion. I agree with STEIN that this is either a foto-flame or an extremely thin veneer. I also asked Fujigen if they knew how many guitars were made with this bolt-on neck style and they replied: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateo69 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Due to recent circumstances out of my control I am going to have to sell some of my guitars and unfortunately this Epiphone is at the top of the list. Before I list it in the 'Trading Post' area I just wanted to get an idea of what it's worth. Anyone able to tell me what fair market value would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Before I list it in the 'Trading Post' area I just wanted to get an idea of what it's worth. Anyone able to tell me what fair market value would be? If it were mine, I would ask between $400 and $500 US for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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