Help ID'ing a MIJ bolt-on LP

[mateo69]

Not trying to drag this out...but stumbled across this tonight - MIJ bolt-on Epiphone LP Custom with 7-digit serial similar to mine.

 

Scroll down to the 7th guitar

 

Epiphone Les Paul Custom. Year 1997. Made in Japan.

Ebony finished. Single bolt-on neck.

 

[Hungrycat]

#1: If SVK Guitars made high-quality knock-offs maybe they were contracted to do some Epiphones like other companies had been to make Fender and Squier guitars. (The same companies that were previously making knock-offs of said Fender guitars.) Maybe that's the case here.

 

#2. I'm almost 100% convinced that neither OP's guitar or the black Custom are fake. They look too good, especially OP's guitar. There's nothing...wrong...with them.

 

#3.The straight across "Epiphone" logos just scream that's it's from the late 80's or early 90's. And even though I can't quite make it out on OP's guitar, I can see the "Made in Japan" font on the black Custom. It looks the same as on late 80's/early 90's Tokais to me.

[mateo69]

And even though I can't quite make it out on OP's guitar, I can see the "Made in Japan" font on the black Custom. It looks the same as on late 80's/early 90's Tokais to me.

 

I was getting alot of glare when I took the pic of my serial# the first time. I just took another pic and noticed that the serial# is ink stamped underneath the clear coat and the 'Made in Japan' is stamped on top of it.

 

[animalfarm]

All-in-all, this thread is a TRIP! Bottom line is that you are in possession of a

"One-of-a Kind" Les Paul, and it's a stunner. Regardless of Source, I would be MOST

HAPPY to own it!

 

Educational experience for me, have NEVER seen this type of construction, but if it's

a PLAYER, for gosh sake's KEEP IT!!!! Lots of things don't seem to make sense about it,

You even have US stumped, which is RARE. DOES look like PRO construction, vs "homemade".

 

Beautiful Guitar, regardless of unusual (to us) construction and parts.

It WOULD truly be great to slap a POSITIVE ID on it, though.

 

[RobinTheHood]

That last pic just adds even more questions. Like, why was the MIJ stamped after the clear coat? Thats not typical. Almost as if the neck was finished in Japan, but not necessarily made there. I dunno. I'm stumped. I dont know if we will ever figure this one out.

 

Also, I've seen that blog page before. I wrote off the MIJ claims on the clipped-ears as just misinfo. But now it looks like there may be more to it than that.

[Hungrycat]

That last pic just adds even more questions. Like, why was the MIJ stamped after the clear coat? Thats not typical.

 

It's weird to be sure, BUT...my Elitist 335 has it's Elitist seal on the back of the neck on top of the clear coat. It's an 07 from the Terada plant. And I know it's legit as the original bill-of-sale was in the case when I bought it. The mystery deepens...

[RobinTheHood]

It's weird to be sure, BUT...my Elitist 335 has it's Elitist seal on the back of the neck on top of the clear coat. It's an 07 from the Terada plant. And I know it's legit as the original bill-of-sale was in the case when I bought it. The mystery deepens...

 

Is that uncommon for the Elitist stamp? I wonder if the Custom Shop stamp is like this as well?

[Hungrycat]

Is that uncommon for the Elitist stamp? I wonder if the Custom Shop stamp is like this as well?

 

I don't know. The Elite seal on my Les Paul is under the finish, and I assume that's the norm. I don't have a big enough sample though.

[mateo69]

I've sent a few e-mails to Fujigen and Otoko Music to try and get more information on this guitar and I'll post any relevant responses that I receive.

 

In the meantime I was playing the guitar at high volume last night and realized that I don't like the taper of the volume pots. They are marked B500k. Is it safe to assume that they are linear?

 

And if I buy audio taper pots, do I need to buy ones with longer shafts?

 

I would also like to find a matching volume knob for the other 3 on this guitar. Anyone know where I can buy one? I've looked around, but can't seem to find any that match.

 

Thanks again for all the help!

[Ed Zeplin]

I've sent a few e-mails to Fujigen and Otoko Music to try and get more information on this guitar and I'll post any relevant responses that I receive.

 

In the meantime I was playing the guitar at high volume last night and realized that I don't like the taper of the volume pots. They are marked B500k. Is it safe to assume that they are linear?

 

And if I buy audio taper pots, do I need to buy ones with longer shafts?

 

I would also like to find a matching volume knob for the other 3 on this guitar. Anyone know where I can buy one? I've looked around, but can't seem to find any that match.

 

Thanks again for all the help!

 

Use linear pots for volume, audio for tone. If you use audio taper for volume you won't hear much until turned up to about 7.

 

Z

[RaSTuS]

Use linear pots for volume, audio for tone. If you use audio taper for volume you won't hear much until turned up to about 7.

+1

Spot on.

[Hungrycat]

As far as pot taper goes, it's really a preference thing. (For instance:I like linear for single-coil pickups and audio for humbuckers, but not if they're active and only if the required is in the >100K range.) See what I mean?

[mateo69]

I just got a reply from a guy at Otoko Music regarding the Epiphone LP Custom he had with the same bolt-on style neck as mine.

 

I had been told by my Japanese couter part in Japan its a 1997 model and it's a domestic Les Paul with ebony fingerboad. Its made by Yamano Gakki. So it is 100% authentic!

 

After searching 'Yamano Gakki' I came across this website that is a History of Orville, Orville by Gibson and Epiphone Japan

Model Guitars

 

I now believe that my guitar was made by the Fujigen factory in 1996. I know that I can't prove it, but that is the only logical conclusion that I can come to with all the current information available.

[Hungrycat]

I now believe that my guitar was made by the Fujigen factory in 1996. I know that I can't prove it, but that is the only logical conclusion that I can come to with all the current information available.

 

I'll go with that.

 

That dude's Custom totally has a rosewood 'board though. The grain is too open for ebony.

[mateo69]

Just got this reply from Fujigen:

 

<Specifications>

Manufacturer: Fujigen Inc.

Manufacturing Year: 1994

Body: Flamed Maple Laminated/Maple Top + Mahogany Back

Neck: Mahogany 1PLY + Bolt On Joint

Fingerboard: Rosewood

Scale: 648mm

Frets: 22F Medium Wide

Nut: Bone

Tuners: Gotoh SD91-SL

Bridge: T.O.M + Stop Bar

Pickups: Standard Humbucker (Made In Korea)

Finish: Polyester

 

I also asked them what the other numbers in the serial number mean:

 

"4" from 1994. Other numbers have no meaning. (is just production

control number)

 

They list the top as Maple with laminated Flamed Maple, but as others have pointed out it appears that it's a solid quarter-sawn top.

 

The only thing that confuses me is that with a book-matched top, there 'should' be a seam down the middle of each of the pickup cavities where it is matched together, and I don't see that.

[Barcham]

There is a seam, it's just difficult to see because the top is so well matched. If you look at the pics of the front of the guitar, you can see that the flame does not cross the center of the guitar and is in fact slightly different on each side. I do not believe there is any veneer on that top though.

[mateo69]

There is a seam, it's just difficult to see because the top is so well matched. If you look at the pics of the front of the guitar, you can see that the flame does not cross the center of the guitar and is in fact slightly different on each side. I do not believe there is any veneer on that top though.

 

The seam on the face is obvious. I am referring to the side edge inside both pickup cavities. Personally, I don't see a seam there:

 

[Barcham]

If you look carefully at the bridge cavity, you'll see a difference in the shading of the maple top. It goes straight down from the end of the red line and meets the end of the green line. It's not easy to see but if you look hard enough, you will see it. The wood to the right of the center line is just slightly darker in shade than the left side. This is really a great book matched top, I can't imagiine a better one being possible.

[stein]

I'm leaning Fujigen:

 

The "Made in Japan" font looks exactly like the same font on my Fujigen Strats. I also looks closely to see if they were on top or below the finish. They appear below, but I can tell also they are separate from the seriel# which appears more below the finish.

 

The font for the stamps on the neck and neck pocket also look familiar, but I would have to check. I may have seen that on the inside of on of my Jap Strats.

 

Regarding that, I would say that the body and neck were definitely made to be together. I fing it hard to believe that someone who was mating two different guitar parts would have access to the same stamp, or bother to stamp it at all if it was not done at a factory level. Fit and finish is too good, and while there is evidence of possibly sanding, there is no other tooling marks that I think would be required to make them fit had they not been manufactured to work.

 

As for the top, I am guessing it is a foto-flame finish. And, not only that, but it looks suspiciously like what Fujigen was doing with Fenders in both quality and color. But, a foto-flame finish would explain why the grain of the wood would be visible from the sides to the top AND also appear from the top to be a 2 piece flame top.

[stein]

Couple questions for the experts?

 

To spite what appears to be the high quality of this guitar, it is obvious this was meant to be an affordable model. That would explain the bolt on neck, as well as the silk screen logo.

 

IF this guitar was made in the mid-nineties, the headstock shape would have been the correct spec?

 

And, IF this guitar WAS made by Fujigen, there are a couple things that add up for that. For one, it would have been right around the time when manufacturers in Japan were willing to import parts made in Korea or China. And also, it appears right around the time when Fujigen would have been starting to ramp up for production of set neck guitars for Gibson, which resulted in the "crafted in Japan" Fenders.

 

The qualities of this guitar regarding the finish, the bolt on neck, and the foto-flame would have been things the Fujigen plant was very skilled at making at the time, and easy for them to do.

[james_edward]

I'm leaning Fujigen:

 

The "Made in Japan" font looks exactly like the same font on my Fujigen Strats. I also looks closely to see if they were on top or below the finish. They appear below, but I can tell also they are separate from the seriel# which appears more below the finish.

 

The font for the stamps on the neck and neck pocket also look familiar, but I would have to check. I may have seen that on the inside of on of my Jap Strats.

 

Regarding that, I would say that the body and neck were definitely made to be together. I fing it hard to believe that someone who was mating two different guitar parts would have access to the same stamp, or bother to stamp it at all if it was not done at a factory level. Fit and finish is too good, and while there is evidence of possibly sanding, there is no other tooling marks that I think would be required to make them fit had they not been manufactured to work.

 

As for the top, I am guessing it is a foto-flame finish. And, not only that, but it looks suspiciously like what Fujigen was doing with Fenders in both quality and color. But, a foto-flame finish would explain why the grain of the wood would be visible from the sides to the top AND also appear from the top to be a 2 piece flame top.

 

If the neck and body were made to go together why does the neck have a dado machined into one side???

 

Foto Flame, well there goes the neighborhood, what on earth would give you that idea.

 

Wood 101, when the grain follows off the edge and onto the face, it's a clear indication that it's solid and has not been veneered (or foto-flamed) over top.

 

What explains the center seam being hard to find on the edge (while it's obvious on the face)??? anyone who's in the business of working with wood knows there are explanations.

[james_edward]

Couple questions for the experts?

 

To spite what appears to be the high quality of this guitar, it is obvious this was meant to be an affordable model. That would explain the bolt on neck, as well as the silk screen logo.

 

IF this guitar was made in the mid-nineties, the headstock shape would have been the correct spec?

 

And, IF this guitar WAS made by Fujigen, there are a couple things that add up for that. For one, it would have been right around the time when manufacturers in Japan were willing to import parts made in Korea or China. And also, it appears right around the time when Fujigen would have been starting to ramp up for production of set neck guitars for Gibson, which resulted in the "crafted in Japan" Fenders.

 

The qualities of this guitar regarding the finish, the bolt on neck, and the foto-flame would have been things the Fujigen plant was very skilled at making at the time, and easy for them to do.

 

The body is high quality and set neck - real Mahogany and top quality Maple, that much is obvious to anyone who is in the wood business. The neck is cobbled together Epi LP special quality, pretty simple.

[RobinTheHood]

 

IF this guitar was made in the mid-nineties, the headstock shape would have been the correct spec?

 

 

Yes, the early nineties is whent hey started using the clipped-ear headstock. I've never seen one on a Japanese model though. Apparently ww have a new/old breed of Epiphone here.

[stein]

If the neck and body were made to go together why does the neck have a dado machined into one side???

 

Foto Flame, well there goes the neighborhood, what on earth would give you that idea.

 

Wood 101, when the grain follows off the edge and onto the face, it's a clear indication that it's solid and has not been veneered (or foto-flamed) over top.

 

What explains the center seam being hard to find on the edge (while it's obvious on the face)??? anyone who's in the business of working with wood knows there are explanations.

 

 

The body is high quality and set neck - real Mahogany and top quality Maple, that much is obvious to anyone who is in the wood business. The neck is cobbled together Epi LP special quality, pretty simple.

The neck pocket on this body does not resemble any neck pocket for a set neck I have ever seen, and in fact the only think that would fit properly into it IS the neck we have here. IF it had been widened, there would be tooling marks, but the tooling marks that are there were done before it was sprayed. You can see finish in the corners. Also, the tongue at the bottom of the neck fits perfectly into the groove where the 2 screws go under the pup, also sprayed over.

 

Again with the stamp: the neck was stamped before the finish. It is far more likely to me that the body was at minimum stamped by the same stamper, which just screams "I was made by the same factory". If this neck pocket had been modified, I doubt the stamp would have survived.

[stein]

If the neck and body were made to go together why does the neck have a dado machined into one side???

 

Foto Flame, well there goes the neighborhood, what on earth would give you that idea.

 

Wood 101, when the grain follows off the edge and onto the face, it's a clear indication that it's solid and has not been veneered (or foto-flamed) over top.

 

What explains the center seam being hard to find on the edge (while it's obvious on the face)??? anyone who's in the business of working with wood knows there are explanations.

"Foto-flame" is actually painted on. It is a printing process. I have never seen it done, and to be truthful it is just a guess on my part that this guitar is foto-flamed. But it does explain to me why there would be flame and figure seen on the top while at the same time showing original grain.

 

The grain pattern shown in the neck pocket is all the same direction, but also gets smaller to bigger from side to side, and is in a fan pattern. If it is bookmatched, it would be a chevron. It is impossible to flip and find the same fan pattern as well as the smaller to bigger on the other side. This piece practically proves it is one piece because if you follow the grain pattern, the piece right above or from the side will have a different grain pattern had it been flipped or rotated.

 

Easy enough to tell if it is foto-flamed: real flame will change from light to dark depending on the angle. The light parts will be dark looking from one side, and the dark parts light. On this body, at the seam it shows light running into dark at the center. If they don't change from any angle, it is foto-flamed.