Help ID'ing a MIJ bolt-on LP

[RobinTheHood]

I'm just telling you what I was told, by my friend at Guitar Center, he ran the serial for me and found nothing. If it works for the guy who bought it, then it was worth the cash.

 

Well that explains it.

 

Hey, if the guitar works for him, thats great. I'm not knocking the guitar. I just dont necessarily think its legit and the owner should know the facts surrounding my conclusion. Thats all. I just like to spread the knowledge.

 

Anyway, HungryCat may be right. Maybe its a prototype or a mockup....however, the LP Standard was already in production by 1996. So that doesnt quite work for me either.

[RobinTheHood]

At least you didn't pay "MiJ" price

 

HA! No kidding! Yet another reason why I say its not legit. MIJ would be at least double what you paid.

[RobinTheHood]

I have seen old MIJ Aria guitars built this way. Never an LP type, but others. It doesn't look homemade to me. I would guess that it's a prototype or something of the like.

 

You know, Cat, that kind of says a lot (and I missed your post earlier). Aria and Epiphone were both building guitars at the Matsumoku plant at the same time, Actually, Epiphone was contracting through Aria, who was in turn contracting through Matsumoku in the 1970's. This could be a Matsu prototype before Epiphone decided to go through Fuji-gen for the JDMs and Elitists, although I'm pretty sure Epiphone had pulled out of Matsu long before this guitar was made. Purely speculation, but Its all I've got at this point.

[mateo69]

I think I'm going to take the neck off and look for any markings when I replace the pickups tomorrow.

 

Any specific markings I should be looking for? Is there any other way to confirm what this really is?

 

I don't see any markings in the control cavity, unless there is something hidden by the pots...which are Cor-Tek (Cort) by the way. The 3-way toggle switch is enclosed with no markings on the outside. The tuners have no markings on the outside, but I was going to remove one tomorrow and look for markings on the side that mounts to the headstock.

[RobinTheHood]

I think I'm going to take the neck off and look for any markings when I replace the pickups tomorrow.

 

Any specific markings I should be looking for? Is there any other way to confirm what this really is?

 

I don't see any markings in the control cavity, unless there is something hidden by the pots...which are Cor-Tek (Cort) by the way. The 3-way toggle switch is enclosed with no markings on the outside. The tuners have no markings on the outside, but I was going to remove one tomorrow and look for markings on the side that mounts to the headstock.

 

So Cort pickups AND Cort pots? This gets weirder and weirder. So the neck says MIJ, the set-neck-style with bolts in the cavity is indicative to Aria (also MIJ), and the electronics are Cort (Indo). WTF? Well, you've certainly accomplished stumping us with this guitar. lol. I suppose that as long as you like it, then play it for all its worth. It really is a beautiful guitar. That much is certain.

[Epi Rocks]

Hey everyone, I'm recently purchased a MIJ Epiphone LP with a bolt-on neck and have been trying to confirm some info on it. I 'believe' it was made at the Fujigen factory in Japan, but I have no idea what year? The serial# is 6064076 and says 'Made in Japan' right under it. I'll try to attach some pics for reference. I'm currently in the process of repairs/adjustments, so the truss rod cover and pickguard are both off and one of the knobs is different than the others. Any info is appreciated!

 

 

 

 

Hey there.

 

I can't offer anymore info than what you've already attained, but WHO CARES who made it or where it came from!! She's a beauty indeed and, in excellent condition to boot. Whatever you paid for her is worth it 'cause she is totally unique and worth hangin' on to, WITH BOTH HANDS!!

Once you install those dimarzios she will RRROCK with the best of 'em soooo... ENJOY!! \:D/

 

Cheers

Paul

[bigneil]

It certainly is a beautiful and unusual guitar..

 

looks a bit like Gary Moore's one.

 

 

You should post up a couple of pics once you have it all fitted together, and it's ready to rock.

[mateo69]

Ok, I just took everything apart to get ready to install the new pickups and here are some pics - hopefully someone can decipher all this!

 

Bottoms of the Bridge and Tailpiece -

 

 

Pots in the control cavity - Volume are B500K and Tone are D500K

 

 

Pickup cavities from an angle - note that the posts for the bridge screw directly into the wood, but the tailpiece has inserts, not sure if this is typical or not?

 

 

Neck pocket - notice that the overspray clear coat on the sides has been sanded down to fit the neck

 

 

Neck pocket from above - red letter A inside 2 circles and ELP-STD

 

 

Heel of neck - ink stamped ELP-STD under finish

 

 

Underside of tuner - letter c under some other character - looks like a capitol A with the top removed?

 

[RobinTheHood]

Thanks for posting those pics! They were most helpful.

From what I can tell from the ELP-STD model number, this guitar is made by a company called SKV Guitars. Apparently they are know for making high quality Gibson replicas and were supposedly sued by Gibson as well. There is no website anymore due to the lawsuit, but from what I understand, there are other outlets you can find them at. Not that I am advocating them. Just sayin'...

[Lefty Bill]

You da man, (who has done an extensive amount of research and managed to retain a lot, too, which is impressive) RTH.

 

So, essentially, the owner has purchased a beauty of a top-shelf quality counterfeit. If there were more of this quality around, Epiphone and Gibson (and some other brands) would be in trouble.

 

That is a gorgeous guitar, and having the Made in Japan pedigree is a definite bonus (set neck or not).

 

It's great that Mateo provided such clear and bright pics, and follow-up detailed pics too.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Thanks for posting those pics! They were most helpful.

From what I can tell from the ELP-STD model number, this guitar is made by a company called SKV Guitars. Apparently they are know for making high quality Gibson replicas and were supposedly sued by Gibson as well. There is no website anymore due to the lawsuit, but from what I understand, there are other outlets you can find them at. Not that I am advocating them. Just sayin'...

[mateo69]

From what I can tell from the ELP-STD model number, this guitar is made by a company called SKV Guitars. Apparently they are know for making high quality Gibson replicas and were supposedly sued by Gibson as well. There is no website anymore due to the lawsuit, but from what I understand, there are other outlets you can find them at. Not that I am advocating them. Just sayin'...

 

I tried to search for SKV guitars and can't find anything? I do find SVK guitars with a facebook page. Are these the same company?

 

And all the SVK guitars that I can find pics of don't look anything like a real Epi/Gibson?

 

I think I'm even more confused now!

[RobinTheHood]

I tried to search for SKV guitars and can't find anything? I do find SVK guitars with a facebook page. Are these the same company?

 

And all the SVK guitars that I can find pics of don't look anything like a real Epi/Gibson?

 

I think I'm even more confused now!

yeah, thats the one. I didnt really look to closely at the guitars. Remember, they were sued by Gibson, so they probably dont look the same now. All of the results for ELP-STD came up SKV. Honestly I didnt look too far in to this. I'm at work and my time is somewhat limited to short intervals for this kind of stuff. But I think that this is your best bet for identifying this guitar.

 

Some things still dont quite make sense; like if they were known for quality Gibson replicas, why does this one say Epiphone? To me, it looks like the neck (although not an Epiphone neck) was retrofitted to the guitar. Hence the sanding and shaving of the neck pocket. But there are other questions as well. For instance, if they made such high quality replicas, why is this one technically a set-neck guitar with three bolts instead of glue? But on the other hand, the body quality on this guitar is absolutey superb and spot on (and beyond) to an Epi in terms of woods and construction. There are some things on the body that indentify it as not being genuine, but not in the actual construction from what I can tell. The body was very well done.

 

I'm not saying that your guitar is undoubtably an SKV, but to me, it looks like thats what it is for as little information as I was able to find. Im going off of model numbers and sparse info and that is probably as close as you will get unless you can find someone with a particular knowledge about the SKV line.

 

Even though counterfiets and replicas are typically frowned upon, this one looks to be very high quality for the most part. Not so sure about the Cort electronics, but that is all replaceable. And if you were to have bought a genuine Epiphone, you would most likely mod all of that stuff anyway. I'm not advocating fakes, but seeing as this one is much higher quality than most, I say play it and enjoy it.

 

I may still do more research into SKV. If I find anything else, I will be sure to post it in this thread.

[RobinTheHood]

You da man, (who has done an extensive amount of research and managed to retain a lot, too, which is impressive) RTH.

 

So, essentially, the owner has purchased a beauty of a top-shelf quality counterfeit. If there were more of this quality around, Epiphone and Gibson (and some other brands) would be in trouble.

 

That is a gorgeous guitar, and having the Made in Japan pedigree is a definite bonus (set neck or not).

 

It's great that Mateo provided such clear and bright pics, and follow-up detailed pics too.

 

Bill

 

Thanks, Bill! I do what I can and I'm not always right. But its fun trying!

 

Bieng that the electronics are Indo (Cort), I have my doubts about this guitar actually being Japanese. Its possible, yes, but I am going to look into it further when I get a chance.

[mateo69]

I'm at work and my time is somewhat limited to short intervals for this kind of stuff.

 

RTH, I really appreciate your time and effort on this!

 

Personally, I'm not convinced that this guitar is a SVK. All of the pics that I could find of SVK LP copies are either glued neck or 4-bolt w/neckplate.

 

Is there any chance that "ELP-STD" just means Epiphone Les Paul Standard?

[RobinTheHood]

RTH, I really appreciate your time and effort on this!

 

Personally, I'm not convinced that this guitar is a SVK. All of the pics that I could find of SVK LP copies are either glued neck or 4-bolt w/neckplate.

 

Is there any chance that "ELP-STD" just means Epiphone Les Paul Standard?

Not for any guitar made by Epiphone. I have never seen a E in front of LP, not even on the Japanese Market Epiphones. Epiphone Japan model designations are typically LPS or LPC (Les Paul Standard/Custom) and the like. Also, epiphone doesnt put the model numbers in the body cavities or the neck. Its usually on a sticker or a label somewhere. Epiphone has recently started putting model and SKU numbers on their necks, but they are also on a label, but with a couple of bar codes and other info.

 

I'm not 100% convinced the guitar is SKV either, but we are getting closer. Its a possibility that we may never know the true origin of this guitar.

[james_edward]

Just to add another 2 cents and further confuse things.

 

- the top of that body is not veneer - look closely the grain follows off the edge and onto the top - it's a quartersawn solid maple top - which explains that wicked flame.

 

 

- the wiring channel for the neck pup and switch cables is wrong, not epi construction, the channel is missing and those wires are just strung across the cavity.

 

- given the placement and type of screws used on the neck and the shape/size of that neck pocket, IMO there's no way the factory that made that body intended it to be a bolt neck - otherwise there would be more lumber at the bottom of the neck cavity (it would be thicker) and the neck base would be thinner by an equivalent amount.

 

I've never seen an epi bolt neck out of the guitar so I don't know what they look like, but if there was no "MIJ" stamped on the back of the neck. I'd say it's a knock-off LP body with an Epi neck.

 

BUT - with that MIJ stamp on the neck and the silk screened logo, I say - the neck is a fake and the body could be from any one of a 100 factories.

 

PS- whose hardware is that, not something I've seen on an Epi that I can remember.

[RobinTheHood]

Just to add another 2 cents and further confuse things.

 

- the top of that body is not veneer - look closely the grain follows off the edge and onto the top - it's a quartersawn solid maple top - which explains that wicked flame.

 

- the wiring channel for the neck pup and switch cables is wrong, not epi construction, the channel is missing and those wires are just strung across the cavity.

 

- given the placement and type of screws used on the neck and the shape/size of that neck pocket, IMO there's no way the factory that made that body intended it to be a bolt neck - otherwise there would be more lumber at the bottom of the neck cavity (it would be thicker) and the neck base would be thinner by an equivalent amount.

 

I've never seen an epi bolt neck out of the guitar so I don't know what they look like, but if there was no "MIJ" stamped on the back of the neck. I'd say it's a knock-off LP body with an Epi neck.

 

BUT - with that MIJ stamp on the neck and the silk screened logo, I say - the neck is a fake and the body could be from any one of a 100 factories.

 

PS- whose hardware is that, not something I've seen on an Epi that I can remember.

 

Good observations. Thanks for the input. I dont know much about the insides of most Epiphones. That was most helpful putting to rest the question of its authenticity. Not that I had any doubt becuase of other things about the body, but your confirmation and extra input closed the lid on that aspect, I would say.

[Lefty Bill]

I was pondering the possibility of leftover property which was seized, or inventory where a court order has stopped production, ending up in a warehouse for long periods of time (picture those govt warehouse scenes from the TV show X-Files).

 

So, after the lawyers stop doin' their dance, the inventory eventually gets auctioned/sold off to anyone interested. High bidder sees major dollar signs and gets some folks together to turn out a product from the parts. If the necks had already been stamped/branded, those folks just build products from what's in the crates.

 

This same process takes place countless times, with general surplus stuff all the time. There are empty manufacturing facilities that would only require a small workforce and a couple months of prep to start producing products.

 

An example of the scenario is that we've seen guns which have been confiscated from criminals turn out to be found as part of other investigations.. instead of them being destroyed, someone saw an opportunity to make money.

 

I've wondered what interest the DOJ will have in the wood which was confiscated/seized (twice now)from Gibson. OK, so that material doesn't have the Gibson trademark applied to it, but it will very likely end up in someone's possession, other than the DOJ.

Govt agencies do auction off seized property like they do with military surplus stuff.

 

Anywhoo.. I hadn't been around this forum long before I realized that instruments are going to show up occasionally in which their origins are completely unclear.

 

I could tell from the appearance of the internal screw heads in Mateo's guitar pics, that those weren't driven into place by some amateur with an old screwdriver. In my experience, when an amateur drives screws, it's always noticeable, and Mateo's pics were so clear, it was evident that the screw heads were perfect, like only experienced manufacturers' results generally are.

 

I'm sure there are a few people, somewhere, that would have a chuckle with some of the guitars that have been presented here.. it definitely keeps things interesting.

 

Bill

 

 

Thanks, Bill! I do what I can and I'm not always right. But its fun trying!

Bieng that the electronics are Indo (Cort), I have my doubts about this guitar actually being Japanese. Its possible, yes, but I am going to look into it further when I get a chance.

[RobinTheHood]

Thats always a possibillity, Bill. And not unheard of either. I did some more poking around but for some reason I am not getting reluts for ELP-STD this time. I Swear, I got results for that model number earlier today. Anyway, I found some SKV guitars on Ebay, and although its not really much to go on, I did notice that the control cavity plates were identical to mateo's. Mainly, the toggle control plate screws were the same size, which are larger than typical screws you would see on any guitar, as well, the screws were positioned identically. The screw position is, probably, 10 degrees off (CCW) from an Epi. Not something most people would notice.

 

I'm not sure about that neck, but I really leaning toward the body being an SKV.

[RobinTheHood]

Ah, well its SVK, not SKV. That may have been the problem.

[mateo69]

- given the placement and type of screws used on the neck and the shape/size of that neck pocket, IMO there's no way the factory that made that body intended it to be a bolt neck - otherwise there would be more lumber at the bottom of the neck cavity (it would be thicker) and the neck base would be thinner by an equivalent amount.

I didn't notice this originally, but the neck pocket area is cut on a slope. I have to assume it was done this way on purpose so that the neck angle is correct and the heel of the neck has a much thicker area to bolt into.

 

 

 

I just got the guitar all back together with the new pickups and this thing really sings now.

 

I may not know who built it or where/when it was built, but I can tell you I have a LP-style guitar that plays, sounds and looks amazing!

 

Thanks to everyone here for the great information.

 

Here are a few final pics of the guitar back together. I think I'm going to leave the pickguard off for good...the maple top is just too pretty to cover up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[james_edward]

I completely agree - just not for the "quatersawn" top

I know quatersawn necks - but not tops

 

There clearly is a seam, look closely between the pup-cavities...

 

just another 2 cents

 

Pete, you're right there is a center seam, it's a 2 piece book matched top - as for the cut - you can see the grain is very close to 90 degrees to the face, which is a quarter cut, or as we say, quartersawn.

 

Bet you Animalfarm has a diagram somewhere around here that shows the end of the log and what the different types of cut (flat, rift, quarter) will yield.

[james_edward]

I didn't notice this originally, but the neck pocket area is cut on a slope. I have to assume it was done this way on purpose so that the neck angle is correct and the heel of the neck has a much thicker area to bolt into.

 

The neck pocket of your typical LP is always tapered to the set angle of the neck. My point is that there is nowhere near enough lumber at the bottom of the cavity to make a proper connection and no factory would produce bolt neck guitars this way.

 

While it may appear to some that this body and neck were intended to be bolted together in this manner, and it may appear that the "bolts" are placed properly and cleanly installed - but I disagree, IMO it's not right for all the reasons already stated.

[Barcham]

Another thing regarding the wood is that looking into the pup cavities, the body seems to be made of quality mahogany. Nice and dark, although that could be a stain, and a very tight grain. I had also noticed the lack of veneer but you guys beat me to that observation. Whatever it is, it's made of high quality materials and has an amazing flame top. I'm definitely not a fan of fakes, or bolt on necks, but I would be very pleased to own that guitar.

 

 

 

Hey Pete! Maybe we've found one of the mythical 1986 Epi Les Pauls!!!

 

 

 

 

 

(kidding)

[RobinTheHood]

While it may appear to some that this body and neck were intended to be bolted together in this manner, and it may appear that the "bolts" are placed properly and cleanly installed - but I disagree, IMO it's not right for all the reasons already stated.

Yeah, the body and neck were both meant to be set-neck construction...just not together to make this guitar. I find it strange that they were bolted instead of glued, when they were both obvioulsy meant to be glued.