strings for L48?

[jazzman-oosh!]

Hi all. Just started playing again after about 20 years & after a lifetime of copies, just got my first 'real' guitar: a 1951 L48.

Question is this: I got back into it to finally learn gypsy & early jazz (Eddie Lang, Carl Kress) early. Does anyone know what kind of strings those guys used for acoustic archtop jazz?

I know I need to go heavy-gauge, but I don't know which is appropriateL flatwound or bronze roundwound. I have D'addario chromes on my electric jazzbox and they play & sound like warm butter &I love the 'no-squeak', but not sure if this is what should go on my L48.

 

One other question: the action & intonation are impeccable, but the strings are all shifted about 3mm off-center of the neck so that there's loads of fretboard above the heavy E and the light E is almost off the end of the fret. Could this be intentional or just a result of the bridge slipping down during string changes? I'm still freaked out about messing with the bridge position, but the great guys at Midwest Buy & Sell told me it's a pretty tame adjustment.

 

Sorry if my jargon's a bit off & I really appreciate any advice oneither question.

[pfox14]

I would recommend 13s round wound D'Addarios. Don't be afraid to re-center the bridge so the strings are correctly lined up with the neck. You should give it a couple of light side-ways taps with the strings slightly slacken in order to correct the problem, then re-tune the strings to pitch. That way you won't change the bridge position toward or away from the neck messing up the intonation.

[jazzman-oosh!]

pfox14,

 

Wow, that was fast! I knew I came to the right place. Thanks for the advice. Checked out your site while up all night surfing around for background info on my latest addition -- you do some really nice work!

Your bridge advice calmed me down & I've been thinking about experimenting with strings every 2 months or so til I find what I hear on those great old tracks. Since you recommend bronze, thought I'd try D'Addario Flat tops; really like them on my dreadnought for the warm/bright balance with none of the squeak. Also thought about trying some Thomastik flatwound & even gypsy silvers like on my Cigano. Though I'm a little worried about 13s on such an old guitar. I picture the thing popping apart as I tune up. Again, sorry if that's really naive. Thanks so much again, cheers!

[glider]

Post up some pictures of your L48. I just scored an L50 about a week ag0.. What are the differences between the 48 and 50. My guitar is a '53 and I have similar questions regarding strings

[L5Larry]

Though I'm a little worried about 13s on such an old guitar. I picture the thing popping apart as I tune up.

 

Do not worry, these older archtops were designed and built for heavier strings. I use 14ga. flats on both a '47 Gibson L-7, and $36 '50's Silvertone archtop.

 

As for strings, If you're looking for a traditional jazz sound from this guitar, you will never get it from roundwounds, especially bronze. You state you have flats on other guitars, so you are familiar with them. Have fun experimenting.

 

If you really want to try some interesting flatwound strings, try what I use, LaBella 800M. They're wound with black nylon tape instead of nickel ribbon wire.

[ksdaddy]

I put D'Addario Chromes on my Heritage Golden Eagle but all I had on hand was 11-50. I've since picked up some 12-52 and will likely switch. I'd like some Thomastiks but I'll need to stop eating for a week or sell some blood.

[jazzman-oosh!]

I'll get some up by next w/e. Need to clean it up a little amongst all the other "honey-do'"s.

[jazzman-oosh!]

Looks like that question was just the start, eh?. Bella black, hmmmm... have to add that to the try-out list.

Being totally new to the forum thing, is it bad form to reply to every post? Don't want to be tedious, but definitely don't want to be rude.

[bobouz]

Being totally new to the forum thing, is it bad form to reply to every post?

Respond whenever you like! I used to have a '48 L48. It had a solid mahogany top, with a flat braced back like an acoustic. Very resonant & warm. The specs on L48s changed numerous times over the years.

[jazzman-oosh!]

The specs on L48s changed numerous times over the years.

 

Yeah, I'm getting that from research. Anyway, it's so sweet to play something with history. Just ordered Thomastiks GB Custom 12-53 to start out. I'll go up a notch if it doesn't have the punch.

Thanks and I'm outta here til I get some photos.

[jazzman-oosh!]

glider,

 

Sorry for the late reply. Im no expert (not even a Gibson collector; just happy to have found ANY Gibson archtop in as great condition at such a reasonably negotiated price) and youve probably already found this info, but in the spirit of being a good forum citizen, did a little research:

 

Wood and appointment specs vary from year to year or site to site, and as youve probably figured out by now, trying to trace FON or serial numbers is a bit of a wild goose chase.

 

For the L48 I found pretty detailed descriptions -- though again, varying and sometimes contradictory -- at

 

http://www.mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibson-L48+acoustic+archtop+guitar-1958/1435

 

and

 

http://www.archtop.com/ac_48l48c.html

 

For example the latter describes the model as 1948 FON#: 3G2983 but that doesnt follow the system described on one of the more thorough serial number tracking sites. It also describes and shows parallelogram fingerboard inlay versus the dots of mine and every other pic I found. Maybe this was a design change to adjust to differing market offerings?

 

For comparison, the site also has a detailed description of a 1952 L50:

 

http://www.archtop.com/ac_52L50.html

 

There are also nice brief summary descriptions at:

 

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibson2.html

 

The main points gleaned from all this are thatthe L-48 came out in 1946 as a slightly less expensive alternative to the famous L-50 which had debuted back in 1932.

Over its production lifespan, the L50s girth grew from 14.75" to 16", and changed from dot inlays to trapezoid, whereas the L48s started with trapezoid but changed to dots (presumably to dress them down in comparison?) Overall, the L50 has more premium wood and prettier appointments (the forementioned neck inlays, pearloid Gibson headstock logo versus the gold painted on of the 48, 3-ply tortoise shell pickguard -- which I just scored on eBay).

In short, looks like youve got yourself a really sweet little instrument there. Sorry if this isn't anything you don't already know. I'm sure the guys who re'd this post know a lot more, but in the meantime if you really want something to drool over check out the 1941 L7 sold on the archtop.com site. And on it goes...

[j45nick]

Post up some pictures of your L48. I just scored an L50 about a week ag0.. What are the differences between the 48 and 50. My guitar is a '53 and I have similar questions regarding strings

 

As far as I know, the differences are purely cosmetic, at least in the later (40's-50's) models.

[Generoso]

Wich is the right string gauge for the L48 ?

10 - 47

or

12 - 53

or

13 - 56 ?

I like very good the sound of Daddario 12 - 53 EFT16 but it have a very high strings tension.

It's appropriate use also the 10 - 47 EFT15 or don't have the enought tension for sound on L48 ?

[Danny W.]

Wich is the right string gauge for the L48 ?

10 - 47

or

12 - 53

or

13 - 56 ?

I like very good the sound of Daddario 12 - 53 EFT16 but it have a very high strings tension.

It's appropriate use also the 10 - 47 EFT15 or don't have the enought tension for sound on L48 ?

 

 

Acoustic archtops are typically designed for heavier-gauge strings and will likely sound better with the 12 or 13 set.

 

That being said, if you prefer the feel of the lighter strings, try a set. The worst that happens is that you've wasted the cost of a set of strings, but you'll get a more definitive answer as to whether the thinner tone is a worthwhile trade for easier playing.

 

 

Danny W.

[JimR56]

Hi all. Just started playing again after about 20 years & after a lifetime of copies, just got my first 'real' guitar: a 1951 L48.

Question is this: I got back into it to finally learn gypsy & early jazz (Eddie Lang, Carl Kress) early. Does anyone know what kind of strings those guys used for acoustic archtop jazz?

I know I need to go heavy-gauge, but I don't know which is appropriateL flatwound or bronze roundwound. I have D'addario chromes on my electric jazzbox and they play & sound like warm butter &I love the 'no-squeak', but not sure if this is what should go on my L48.

 

 

Do not worry, these older archtops were designed and built for heavier strings. I use 14ga. flats on both a '47 Gibson L-7, and $36 '50's Silvertone archtop.

 

As for strings, If you're looking for a traditional jazz sound from this guitar, you will never get it from roundwounds, especially bronze. You state you have flats on other guitars, so you are familiar with them. Have fun experimenting.

 

If you really want to try some interesting flatwound strings, try what I use, LaBella 800M. They're wound with black nylon tape instead of nickel ribbon wire.

This subject has come up on other threads, and Larry has stated this opinion before. Larry once advised a newbie to put flatwound strings on his 1930's Gibson archtop acoustic (I've forgotten what model it was), and the person apparently took his advice without questioning it, and did not return to the discussion. The discussion in that case involved me coming along after the fact and stating that I thought Larry was wrong. I think he was wrong here also, but I didn't see this thread until today.

 

So, does anyone agree with Larry? I associate flatwound strings with the emergence of amplification. When you're going to put strings on an old acoustic archtop, and go for an early Eddie Lang or Carl Kress kind of sound, why would you choose flatwound strings? I'm not suggesting that bronze is the only option for roundwounds, but flatwound strings do not produce the kind of tone (or volume) that you typically want to get on an acoustic guitar, in my experience. I'm not even sure that flatwound strings existed in the 1920's and 30's.

[Danny W.]

This subject has come up on other threads, and Larry has stated this opinion before. Larry once advised a newbie to put flatwound strings on his 1930's Gibson archtop acoustic (I've forgotten what model it was), and the person apparently took his advice without questioning it, and did not return to the discussion. The discussion in that case involved me coming along after the fact and stating that I thought Larry was wrong. I think he was wrong here also, but I didn't see this thread until today.

 

So, does anyone agree with Larry? I associate flatwound strings with the emergence of amplification. When you're going to put strings on an old acoustic archtop, and go for an early Eddie Lang or Carl Kress kind of sound, why would you choose flatwound strings? I'm not suggesting that bronze is the only option for roundwounds, but flatwound strings do not produce the kind of tone (or volume) that you typically want to get on an acoustic guitar, in my experience. I'm not even sure that flatwound strings existed in the 1920's and 30's.

 

I use T-I Benson Roundwound 12's on all my archtops and Gibson roundwound L-5 11's (wound 3rd) on all my semis. I haven't had a set of flatwound strings on a guitar for at least twenty years, and I get a great jazz sound out of all of them. I think flats take all the life out of carved-top guitars.

 

Even when I use to use flats on guitars with pickups, I always strung acoustic archtops with roundwound brass or bronze strings.

 

Danny W.

[JimR56]

Maybe there's some confusion with the term "traditional jazz sound". These days, when younger players talk about a "traditional" jazz tone, they're usually talking about the big name hollowbody electric players of the 50's and 60's (Kessel, Farlow, Raney, Burrell, Pass, etc). The specific subject here is different, however, and dates back further. Eddie Lang, Cark Kress, un-amplified acoustic archtops, guitars made in the 1920's and 30's... this is a different "traditional" sound. As far as I know, flatwound strings played no part in all of that, and probably have never played much of a part over the years with players who like to play in that older style (Marty Grosz, Wayne Wright, etc). If you're going to use an old acoustic archtop with a floating pickup, and go for a more modern electrified sound, then I could understand wanting to suggest flatwounds... but not in an un-amplified setting.

[Hannu]

I use T-I Benson Roundwound 12's on all my archtops and Gibson roundwound L-5 11's (wound 3rd) on all my semis. I haven't had a set of flatwound strings on a guitar for at least twenty years, and I get a great jazz sound out of all of them. I think flats take all the life out of carved-top guitars.

 

Even when I use to use flats on guitars with pickups, I always strung acoustic archtops with roundwound brass or bronze strings.

 

Danny W.

 

I have changed between flats and rounds my Super 400-CES many times over the years, always seem to end up with round wounds, for either acoustic or electric. D'Addario round wound EJ21's or EJ22's seem to work well for me, the solid carved spruce top seems to really resonate. With flat wounds, there is not much acoustic sound, but you get a very sweet electric sound playing a rather light right hand.

The gauge seems to make big difference, the heavier, the jazzier the sound is, with either flat or round ones.

Hannu

[JimR56]

Both types of strings have their appeal for electric guitars, and everyone has their preferences in that sense. But that's not really the point I'm getting at. I don't think flatwounds really belong on acoustic archtops that are not going to be amplified.

 

At one time, I tried to research the origins of flatwound strings, but I had a very difficult time finding any details. As I said above, my sense is that they came along after the advent of electric guitars, and thus should not be associated with the acoustic jazz styles of the 1920's/30's.

[Hannu]

Maybe we missed this in the conversation:

D'Addario makes strings specially designed for the Gypsy Jazz style:

 

http://www.daddario.com/DADProductFamily.Page?ActiveID=3768&familyid=12

 

Maybe these would work well for what you are thinking about.

Hannu