ksdaddy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Okay so here's the deal. I've had a 1988 Peavey VTX Classic (50 watt 2-12) since 1997 and I'm perfectly content with it. Last December I scored an LP Custom and a pristine 1999 '65 Twin reissue. I sold the LP and basically have nothing into the Twin. In fact I have about 'negative' $300 into it. I replaced the reverb tank and the thing is just phenomenal. It gives me the surf vibe I like. Ungodly deep and crisp and nothing in the middle, just how I like it. My gripe about it (and I know it will sound weird) is that the thing is NEW. I think the former owner kept it in his living room with a doily on top. I'm afraid to use it for fear of "putting miles" on it. Seriously. I know I shouldn't be like that; everything is 'new' once and it's bound to get it's first scratch somewhere along the line. Meanwhile I scored a '69 Bassman 50 and it's companion 2-15 cabinet, road weary cosmetically but worked fine. I bought an outboard reverb unit and used it for a while but ultimately sold the Bassman head and reverb, leaving me with an old beat up cabinet. Dollar wise, I have nothing into the cabinet. I made the mistake of plugging the Twin into the 2-15 cab.... wow. Frickin' wow. So I'm tossing around the idea that I will sell the Twin while it's still in new condition and pick up a Dual Showman Reverb head for the 2-15 cab. It will likely be a CBS 70s model with master volume, which I never had any issue or attached any stigma to... I drove a '74 Twin from '86-'97. Am I going to regret getting rid of the '99 Twin in favor of a DS head? I know it's subjective and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 There is actually a LOT of subjects you are addressing in this post. As for the Fender reissues, mainly the Twin, the Deluxe Rev and the Bassman, I don't feel they really capture the essence of the original Blackfaced ones, especially at higher volumes. They do get some of it, and I like to think of them as something of a compromise and should cost a lot less. You can use them for a lot of the same things as you would origonals, but when it comes to something of a 'stage' volume OR the drive characteristics, they don't sound the same at all. Said all that to say that the silver-faced Twins and Deluxes actually sound a LOT closer to the Blackfaced version the reissues are based on. Which kinda brings up speakers: I think that is one of the big reasons the reissues have the sound they do, one of the things that keeps them from sounding the way they should (subjectively speaking). Fender seems to be addicted to the Italian reissue Jensen C12N for both the Twin and the Deluxe. I have tried a LOT of speakers trying to get that classic C12N sound, and I haven't found it. The Italian Jensen is the only one that captures that mid-range creamy thing, but it has a very pronounced treble that doesn't go away. So, it is a great speaker, but unfortunately, it doesn't sound good in any application that a vintage C12N would be used for. Said all that to say that I am not surprised the vintage cab would in ways bring the reissue 'alive'. Regardless of what speakers are in them, they likely have characteristics that work better than the speakers in the Reissue amp. So...what to do? The only option I see that isn't an option is putting the 15's in the Twin cab. If you are going to gig with it, a head is far more handy than lugging around a monster amp AND a monster cab, but if it was just a gig or 2, why not? The Twin reissue might not ever be the ultimate, but if you wanted to try and get better tone from it with different speakers/tubes, maybe some mods, why the heck not? But it seems reasonable to trade it for a silverfaced "equivalent", which you could ALSO mod (or not). Or even own both. You seem to have the space, and the means to do anything here. If I was going to beat on an amp, I would feel better beating and "aging" a reissue. The only reason to not I would think is if you NEED the pristine condition to sell to fund a purchase of something more usable that you couldn't acquire otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 No gigs whatsoever, so bulk/weight isn't an issue. It's the tone. If that 2-15 cabinet vanished, it wouldn't be a problem. I'd use the Twin as-is (...maybe, if I could get past the "first scratch" phobia). But I hooked them up... mmmmm... always been a sucker for 15s. In fact my '74 Twin, which had everything but duct tape on it, got hacked down into a head and a donor Bassman Ten cabinet got butchered into a 1-15 cabinet. I did those mods myself and was very happy with the results, both tone-wise and also perfectly content hacking an (at the time) "worthless" CBS amp. With artful cutting/splicing of the tolex, it looked like Fender made half stacks in the early 70s! Dollar wise, I sold the Bassman head for $425 and I could probably get $600 for the Twin locally. I don't want to ship it if I can help it, even though it means maybe not getting as good a price. I know I'll probably pay $800-$900 for a master volume Dual Showman. Life was a lot easier when I used either the Peavey or the '73 Ampeg GT-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If the dollar difference between what you'll get for the Twin combo and the Dual Showman head is not an issue and you'll be playing the amp above bedroom volume, I would sell the Twin and get that silverface Showman. With the '65 Fender reissues, I have not been impressed with how they sound at gig levels. It's the reason my mid nineties Deluxe Reverb RI hasn't been gigged with in at least a decade. They get mushy as you push them to that sweet spot. And mine is American made and has the old Eminence speaker. At bedroom volumes she is nice and jangly which is why I have not sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think 600 bones is realistic, especially if it is "pristine". But if you were to give it a proper beating, what would that do to the cost or desirability? I'm thinking not much. I think you could unload any Twin for 400 bucks easily. For a "repair guy", there is always the potential for someone to come over and need an amp to plug in to. Not to mention the occasional jam, or for you own evaluations. Having a Twin around the house certainly can't hurt. And don't you have a basement to fill? The ONLY reasons I could see selling an amp is either space, or NEEDING to use the funds for something else you can't get your hands on otherwise. On the other hand, selling later instead of now doesn't hurt. I don't see these amps as something going up or down in value to think you need to sell NOW or be stuck with it. If you can swing the purchase of a head, there is no reason not to have both for a while. Besides, now that you are married, if you needed an amp for the living room, a beat-up silverfaced head might not have a high enough WAF (Wife Approval Factor) to be kept in the living room. One must think of how to decorate a new home, don't you know. From an interior design perspective, Twins work either in the shop covered with sawdust and tools or upstairs with a plant on it. You wouldn't want wifey putting a plant on your vintage Twin would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Add me to the "not a fan of the Fender '65 reissue series" group. Give me a PTP silverface any day - and they are close in price usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I just won a recapped retubed '74 Dual Showman head for $760. I didn't steal it but I got it cheaper than I've seen them go. And recapped/tubed is a $$ bonus. Too early to decide on the Twin. Gut instinct is to dump it. I've had it since December and I'm afraid to use it. If it were a silverface with dings and the tolex worn off the edges we wouldn't be having this conversation. Sad I know, to not want to use an amp. I don't buy many "new" guitars either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Congrats on the Dual Showman. If you're not gigging the Twin I don't understand how using it is going to hurt it-cosmetically or otherwise. Why keep an amp that you're not going to or are afraid to use? Eventually you'll get static in the pots whether you us it or not, cover it or not. I say use it or unload it. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The Dual Showman/2x15 is such a classic set up. By now you must have compared the 2 amps. I have a 70s MV Dual Showman combo 2x12, 135w, and a 1982 Twin II. The later amp has a 'modern' sound, tighter bass and lots more mid. However the Dual Showman has the classic open-back Fender sound. Around that time, some CBS Fender amps were 'ultralinear'. I found this out when I took the DS for repair and the guy (a real amp expert) asked me whether I wanted it left like that or put back to triode or pentode operation. After he explained it to me (or tried to) I took his recommendation and he wired it pentode, as that was nearer the original pre-CBS Twin/Dual Showman amp spec. And it sounds amazing to this day. So that may be worth finding out about sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I agree about the reissue Fenders.... Ya know who could get some great cranked Fender Twin overdrive tones? Michael Bloomfield in the Electric Flag years! Is it weird that you're talking about Showmans and I had a dream last night about D!ck Dale? Hmmmn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Try out the Dual Showman Reverb first to see if you are going to like the set up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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