Sancho Panza Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Since I don't have my guitar here, I was wondering if anyone knows what scale the guitarplayer is playing. I don't even know if the scale/mode has any name. Just curious, 'cause I find it rather nice. Starts at 0:40. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkDtwsrkQE Thanks for any help that I might get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Sounds kind of diminished to me. Harmonic Minor maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Maybe so. I have to check that one out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hi Sancho...the short, classical-sounding part definitely uses notes from the D harmonic minor scale. DEFGABbC#. In the solo he puts in some notes from D blues scale. In the early 1970s there was a dispute between the remaining core members of Fleetwood Mac and their manager Clifford Davis over who owned their name. Davis assumed that he did and hired members of Elmer Gantry to be the 'fake' Fleetwood Mac for a scheduled USA tour that resulted in lawsuits. Fax n' info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Thanks for that, will try work it out once I get the guitar back! Yes, I remember reading something about that, pretty weird. Their first album is mind blowing, pre-prog, psychedelic, it holds various genres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hi Sancho...the short, classical-sounding part definitely uses notes from the D harmonic minor scale. DEFGABbC#. In the solo he puts in some notes from D blues scale. How do you figure out what scale he is playing? I've been trying to figure out one, I believe that it isn't that hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPL5fSTBCE, but it would be waaaay easier to have a scale to build from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It's basically a D minor harmomic with a #4 (G#) thrown in once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hi Sancho...the short, classical-sounding part definitely uses notes from the D harmonic minor scale. DEFGABbC#. In the solo he puts in some notes from D blues scale. In the early 1970s there was a dispute between the remaining core members of Fleetwood Mac and their manager Clifford Davis over who owned their name. Davis assumed that he did and hired members of Elmer Gantry to be the 'fake' Fleetwood Mac for a scheduled USA tour that resulted in lawsuits. Fax n' info... yes yes, blame Elmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 How do you figure out what scale he is playing? I've been trying to figure out one, I believe that it isn't that hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPL5fSTBCE, but it would be waaaay easier to have a scale to build from. It's down to training your ear. Start by getting able to identify the root or key note. That will take you awhile. And yes, you will make the whole process easier in the long run if you learn some scale patterns by heart. 'Standard' Minor pentatonic, blues scale (min pent. with 1 more note), Major scale, Natural Minor and perhaps find out how Harmonic Minor is different to Natural Minor (one note is raised one fret). Never mind speed or trying to play flashy runs, just keep learning to 'hear by heart' off the root note initially. It does take awhile, depending on how much time you have to give to it. It can be encouraged but not forced. Musical pitch recognition is one of those areas where you are either right or wrong..."ninety-nine and a half won't do"! And I loved Elmer's comment....regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I can confidently state that I do not have a clue what scale that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 So both scales are rooted in the harmonic minor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 So both scales are rooted in the harmonic minor? I'm afraid not. I understand why you ask that though. The 2nd example (blimey you're obscure guv'nor!) features a guitar solo which...hmm...it's difficult to say whether or how much the guitarist was aware of the scales. This one is again for my money 'mixed scale usage' and the formula is 1,b2,3,4,5,b7...which gives us a total of 6 notes but a scale should really have 5 or 7 (or 8 in the case of 'synthetic' scales). So this is possibly; 1) An 'off' derivation of a melodic minor mode called the superlocrian but - no, I don't think the guitarist knew that at all. 2) A run using the half-step/whole-step diminished scale. That almost fits and given the examples you have put up in past posts, you should find out about this one. 1, b2, b3, nat 3, b5, nat 5, 6, b7. This scale has 8 notes because the diminished chord has 4 notes. But...I don't think it's that either. 3) Please excuse this somewhat arrogant conjecture. As you know, in 1967 the Beatles released 'Sgt Pepper' which featured the G.Harrison track 'Within you, without you'. The melody of that song was almost entirely composed of notes from an Indian pentatonic scale which runs 1,3,4,5,b7. This scale (which does NOT follow the rules generally applied to pentatonics in Western music theory) can also be found in the music of Indian sitar maestro Ravi Shankar, which is where Harrison got it. As you also know, the record was highly influential. I could be way off here, but I am reasonably certain that the guitar player on this record would have found the above scale on 'Pepper', sort-of-mastered it and added the b2 note. I wonder where else he might have got it...? I'm also fairly sure that they would have played it in key of A (the chord is major) although it comes out a little flat from concert A in 2012, but they didn't have guitar tuners in NZ in 1968 so in fact the whole track is really quite miraculous and ahead of its time. Sounds a bit like the Yardbirds. Regards Sancho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm afraid not. I understand why you ask that though. The 2nd example (blimey you're obscure guv'nor!) features a guitar solo which...hmm...it's difficult to say whether or how much the guitarist was aware of the scales. This one is again for my money 'mixed scale usage' and the formula is 1, b2,b3, natural 3, 5,b7...which gives us a total of 6 notes but a scale should really have 5 or 7 (or 8 in the case of 'synthetic' scales). So this is possibly; 1) A derivation of a melodic minor mode called the superlocrian but - no, I don't think the guitarist knew that. 2) A run straight out of the half-step/whole-step diminished scale. That fits and given the examples you have put up in past posts, you should find out about that scale. But...I don't think it's that either. 3) Please excuse this somewhat arrogant conjecture. As you know, in 1967 the Beatles released 'Sgt Pepper' which featured the G.Harrison track 'Within you, without you'. The melody of that song was almost entirely composed of notes from an Indian pentatonic scale which runs 1,3,4,5,b7. This scale (which does NOT follow the rules generally applied to pentatonics in Western music theory) can also be found in the music of Indian sitar maestro Ravi Shankar, which is where Harrison got it. As you also know, the record was highly influential. I could be way off here, but I am reasonably certain that the guitar player on this record would have found the above scale on 'Pepper', sort-of-mastered it and added the b2 note. I wonder where else he might have got it...? I'm also fairly sure that they would have played it in key of A (the chord is major) although it comes out a little flat from concert A in 2012, but they didn't have guitar tuners in NZ in 1968 so in fact the whole track is really quite miraculous and ahead of its time. Sounds a bit like the Yardbirds. Regards Sancho! Thanks for your in depth analysis jdmg! Maybe it's one of those songs that uses influences from the time, I know for a fact that many bands started to experiment with eastern sounding guitar before Sgt. Pepper approximately around '65, '66. One can assume that Butterfield Blues Bands "East-West" must've been a huge influence on young guitarists, but I do concur with you about the Beatles record. I read though that the writer of the song spend some time in USA in '66 or '67, can't remember and can't seem to find the interview either, maybe he was exposed to the eastern influences there. Many of the songs that I've heard don't use a particular scale, they just add, excuse me now, since I don't know ANY theory, so it might look wrong, a semi-tone to get that "eastern" sound. Two examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fqLiojNEsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js6H1fxEhHc So I don't think that he was ahead of his time, just played what sounded "in" for that time. Though I wish that he had a scale, would've been easier for me to have that as a starting point, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks for your in depth analysis jdgm! Maybe it's one of those songs that uses influences from the time, I know for a fact that many bands started to experiment with eastern sounding guitar before Sgt. Pepper approximately around '65, '66. One can assume that Butterfield Blues Bands "East-West" must've been a huge influence on young guitarists, but I do concur with you about the Beatles record. I read though that the writer of the song spend some time in USA in '66 or '67, can't remember and can't seem to find the interview either, maybe he was exposed to the eastern influences there. Many of the songs that I've heard don't use a particular scale, they just add, excuse me now, since I don't know ANY theory, so it might look wrong, a semi-tone to get that "eastern" sound. So I don't think that he was ahead of his time, just played what sounded "in" for that time. Though I wish that he had a scale, would've been easier for me to have that as a starting point, haha. I think you've nailed it, the thinking I mean. Note I edited my post slightly while you were reading it, apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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