neck resets

[jefleppard]

there's been alot of mention of this topic and its left me to realize, i don't know what it is. can we discuss this topic/ firstly - what are the indicators that tell us a neck reset needs to be done? second - how does a luthier/tech approach/complete the work.

please feel free to go on and on. even links to site with pages of script would be fine as i know nothing on the topic!

[Jayla]

Take a look at this. It'll give you a blow by blow description (with pix) of a neck reset.

[Thermionik]

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Good call Jayla - Bryan's site has guided me through fixing several troubled guitars.....

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[onewilyfool]

A neck reset is needed when you can't get your action to the desired height at the 12th fret (say 3/32") and you have less than 1 /16' of saddle showing above the bridge. Simply put. When the saddle is that low, you can't get the proper angle on the string to put downward pressure on the top to produce good sound. Whenever I buy a used guitar, I verify what the action is at the 12th fret, AND how much saddle is showing. A neck reset (usually frets are redone at this time too) is over $500 in our neck of the woods, so it is a big ticket item. Two things to watch, especially on older guitars (which may or may not have reinforcing in the neck or truss rods) is that the neck on older guitars can actually BOW, which will play like this: chords on the first three frets will play fine, notes at the 12th fret will be fine, BUT the action will be lowsy in the middle of the fret board where the bow is causing the action to be high. A guitar like this will not need a neck reset, but a neck straightening, using carbon fiber or steel channel glued into a groove in the neck and the neck straightened with the old or new fretboard. High action in the middle of the neck does not mean neck reset in a lot of cases.

 

I know of two guitar companies that use neck bolt on systems, Taylor and Goodall. I must honestly say, I have never played a Taylor guitar that I have liked. I dont' know if it is the neck assembly system or the guitar architecture itself, but for some reason they all seem dull to me. That being said, I have not played a Goodall, that I didn't like. I have never seen a dud leave their factory that I have played. The real advantage to the bolt on neck is that you can have the guitar set up perfectly according to what kind of action you like in the beginning, then over time, when a neck reset is needed (which all guitars with strings kept up to tension will need over time) it is a realtively simple matter done with shims (taylor) or through adjusting the bolting system.

 

I am told, that if the neck reset is done properly, that no sound quality is lost. Here are some overviews:

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/NeckReset/00028Reset/00028reset01.html

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/NeckReset/00045Reset/00045reset1.html

[roby]

Hello, firstoff a neck re-set involves changing the angle between the neck and the body, thus lowering or highering the action(the distance between the strings and the frets) The indicators of this are,take a straight edge(,long enough to to reach from the nut to the bridge) place it on the fingerboard, it should just graze the top of the bridge,the bridge not the saddle,if it is below the bridge you will need a re-set to bring the neck back to the correct angle .Hope this helps Rob

[jefleppard]

thanks for the links. i'm continually amazed by the great people and helpful spirit that make this forum a great place.

[roby]

Thanks for the reply ,tried googling no luck guess i'm gonna have to try the old fashioned way , just keep playimg back.Nice to find someone willing to reply.Best of luck.Rob

[ballcorner]

As much as I agree that resets are necessary when the guitar neck ends up at the wrong angle, I would remind people that a reset can have a dramatic impact on tonality in a well-aged guitar. Don't go for a reset unless it is really necessary.

 

You are opening an original joint (usually with steam) and replacing the glue, adding shims and doing fret work. It is major surgery.

 

The steam expands the dovetail, the new glue makes the joint harder and shims make contact much tighter in the pocket. If this work is done by a person who is big on talk and short on skills, the guitar can be ruined. The neck joint is the key to resonance and sustain - think of it as the vocal chords for the instrument.

 

Neck resets are among the most costly repairs. They are often suggested by unscrupulous technicians - especially where warranty money can be collected from the builder. Never have a reset done unless two factory authorized techs at different shops make the same recommendation. Never accept a recommendation for a neck reset from a technician or luthier who is not factory authorized. Most good repair shops seek authorized status from both Gibson and Martin at least. If they do not have the sticker in the window - there might be a reason why.

 

If your guitar really does require a reset - it is important to consider the value of sending it back to the original factory to have the work done. While this may involve considerable delays and expensive shipping, a valued guitar will benefit from having the procedure completed properly - something you can be sure of when the instrument goes to Bozeman or Nazareth.

 

Some food for thought: I have handled about 3000 quality acoustic guitars in the past ten years. I have never seen a Santa Cruz or a Taylor that required a neck reset.

 

Anyone else see either?

[ksdaddy]

I've only done a couple resets and in both cases it was "either reset the neck or throw it in the dumpster". Resetting frankly spooks me hardcore. I may tackle some scary jobs but I know when to back off.

[Jerry K]

When the nut, saddle, and truss rod cannot practically be adjusted to bring the strings down from the stratosphere, the neck has to be reset.

[sumner77]

Agree that neck resets are serious considerations, which is why many a bridge has been shaved down after the saddle went. When the time comes, don't screw around with amateurs. The factory is the best option when under warranty. On a vintage instrument I would be very selective, opting for one of the highly regarded repair persons who members here or at UMGF know well. A bad neck set can truly affect tone. Don't try to save money, especially on a valuable instrument.

 

BTW ball, I hope you are right about my Tony Rice Pro, but even so I know they will do it under warranty if it comes to it. Does anyone know for sure if Gibson performs neck resets as a warranty service? I have gotten mixed messages from customer service.

[Jayla]

Thought I'd add that there are a number of pages dealing with neck resets here; just scroll down to or search "neck resetting." There's a whole lotta other great info linked to that page as well.

[drathbun]

I did a neck reset on my '68 Yamaha FG-150 last summer as part of a guitar repair course. I also did a refret on it.

 

You can read about it here with photos:

 

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=17116.0

[ballcorner]

 

BTW ball' date=' I hope you are right about my Tony Rice Pro, but even so I know they will do it under warranty if it comes to it. Does anyone know for sure if Gibson performs neck resets as a warranty service? I have gotten mixed messages from customer service.

[/quote']

 

My TR doesn't look like it will ever need one. I have enough saddle left for four guitars. You should be safe!

 

My understanding of neck resets under warranty is this: If the guitar is less than five years old, they will do it free if there are no signs the guitar was abused (humidity problems etc.). After five or seven years, it is difficult to fault the factory for neck angle issues that suddenly develop, so it becomes their decision regarding who pays.

 

For me it is simple: If the guitar really needs a neck reset to be salvaged, I am OK with the idea of paying the $400+ to have a working instrument back in my hands. I had one done at Martin about ten years ago, and including the shipping it came in around $850. They did it well and the guitar is better for it. It did sound stiff for a year and that had to be worked out - but it came around in the end. What I sent them was worth nothing. What returned is worth about $7000 - that kind of gives it perspective.

 

In the case of a $1000 guitar, I would consider replacement rather than repair, or perhaps take a course and do the neck reset myself as a previous post mentioned.

[ksdaddy]

I had the neck reset on my M-38 in 2005. It was a 50/50 call on whether it needed it, but the main reason it went into the shop was because it came from the factory with old style bar frets like the 20s or 30s. Ick. Ick and double yuck. User UN friendly railroad ties that had to go away. The slots were wide (same width as the crown of the frets) so the easiest fix was to replace the board altogether. The guy who did the work is adamant about removing the board and refretting as part of the neck reset, which I agree with (as if I'm some authority on the subject!). Instead of just steaming out the neck, board and all, he removed the board, then has free access to the dovetail. It takes longer and costs (a little) more but you end up with a better job. The board gets planed after re-installation (or replacement) and therefore you get the benefit of a more correct fret job while correcting a bad neck angle. I think he said he only took off about 1/64".

 

Since he was replacing the board anyway, I had snowflake inlays done at the same time. Little bling is always good.

 

I can't honestly compare before/after tone because it sucked so massively to play before I just didn't use it.

[Hoss]

I've picked up a number of used guitars over the years that came to life after a neck set. All of them had had their bridges and saddles shaved down, and were mere shadows of what they deserved to be. As a matter of fact, every old guitar I own has had a neck set. (I did own a '47 LG2 and a '52 LG3 that did not require a neck set, but they've been traded or sold.)

 

Maybe it's due to the fair number of high quality techs out here in Seattle, but it's really a nonevent. A neck set runs @ $250- not chump change, but nothing to stop you from having it done. And making a good instrument sound and play great.

[jefleppard]

I've picked up a number of used guitars over the years that came to life after a neck set. All of them had had their bridges and saddles shaved down' date=' and were mere shadows of what they deserved to be. As a matter of fact, every old guitar I own has had a neck set. (I did own a '47 LG2 and a '52 LG3 that did not require a neck set, but they've been traded or sold.)

 

Maybe it's due to the fair number of high quality techs out here in Seattle, but it's really a nonevent. A neck set runs @ $250- not chump change, but nothing to stop you from having it done. And making a good instrument sound and play great.

[/quote']

 

after looking through the reset web pages above i can understand why the job commands the pricing it does. it looks scary as hell.

[sumner77]

http://www.bilmitchell.com/neck-resets-guitar-page.html

 

Another reset reference page. Just picked up my '69 Guild D-35 which had become unplayable and now sounds great. I've more $ into it than is sensible, but it was my high school battle ax. Bil and Sarah are great; Martin authorized repair shop and really good builders. Not many wanted to do a Guild, which is messy. The result for me was expensive, but saved the instrument.