1998StandardSG Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hello all, AGAIN! Playing out the other weekend, I was having an issue with my guitar sound. I guess you could say that it sounded like my distortion was being played through a 4" Gorilla practice amp with it set on "stack" distortion mode. Very horrible... I have been working with it all night and I now notice that my guitar makes a LOT of noise when I pass it in front of my amps. I'm using a hot rod deluxe and a super reverb in unison. Also, I notice that when I tap on my guitar, it makes a lot of noise come through the amp. Thump thump thump. I thought maybe my pickups have gone microphonic but I then tried my SG... and then my dot.. and then.. and then... and then... and the results were the same. Then I noticed that, even without anything being plugged in, my super has this horrible amount of hiss coming through it. Not sure what to make of that really. With the guitar microphonic noise Would this be another "side effect" of distortion or should I bias my amp to run "cold" so that I have a some headroom to work with the distortion? With the Super Reverb hiss Has anyone experienced this problem and if so, what was the remedy? With the Hot Rod Deluxe, Super Reverb, and guitar What could cause this much noise when passing a guitar in front of the amp? I have only experienced this noise with single coil non noisless pickups OR when I am using a speaker cable by mistake (yes I checked my cables! hah) Thanks everyone for your input, you all are awesome P.S. My back has been hurting too, I think it may be a bulged disc or something of that nature. Any suggestions haha I'm only 28! Maybe I should start playing with a pig nose amp that I can clip onto my belt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 What does "in unison" mean? How do you have them hooked up? Rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Getting noise when you tap on a tube amp? How are your tube's? Old? New? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 What does "in unison" mean? How do you have them hooked up? Rct On my effects I have a L/R out that I send into a two channel eq and then hook one up to the Hot Rod Deluxe and the other to the Super Reverb. I was tapping on the tubes last night and didn't get any pings or pops. They aren't very new tubes, but they aren't the originals. Maybe... 3 years old? But then again, I do put a lot of hours on them. But there isn't any excessive blue in the tubes either that would make me believe there is a poor vacuum... Is it common for a guitar with humbuckers to make that much noise when being held over the amp??? I don't recall ever having that problem in the past... but I guess it's like anything else, sometimes you don't notice it until it becomes a problem. Today will be round two of trying to figure out the problem. Here is what I'm using and how I am set up. Hardwire Tuner/Crybaby/Hardwire Tube O.D./X-Series Chorus/Hardwire Delay/MXR Micro Amp/Sonic Stomp/Boss ME-50 multi fx. (note: all fx are powered by a one spot) From the ME-50 I run L/R into a rack mount eq and then from there into the HRD and SR RI. Guitars used: LP Standard w/ Burstbuckers, SG Standard w/ 490/498, Epi Dot w/ 57 Classics, LP Menace w/ Smokey Coils, SG Special w/ 490/498, Gretsch 5120 w/ TV Jones Classic Plus & Powertron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 From your list I'd say you may have an impedance mismatch. Possibly the Boss ME5 is acting as a preamp and if there is a send/return on it, that is where to insert all your other effects. Alternately put the ME5 in an amp fx loop of its own. I would also try it without the rack-mount eq which is in a bad place at the end of the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 From your list I'd say you may have an impedance mismatch. Possibly the Boss ME5 is acting as a preamp and if there is a send/return on it, that is where to insert all your other effects. Alternately put the ME5 in an amp fx loop of its own. I would also try it without the rack-mount eq which is in a bad place at the end of the chain. Thanks for your input JD. The super doesn't have a send return and I don't think there is a send/return on the ME-50... I'll have to take a look at that. Do you recommend taking the eq out completely or would it go in a better area in the chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (note: all fx are powered by a one spot) That could be a contributing factor. Not-isolated power supplies make for a helluvah lot of noise. Get yourself an isolated, regulated power supply like a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 and that should cut back on some of the noise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 That could be a contributing factor. Not-isolated power supplies make for a helluvah lot of noise. Get yourself an isolated, regulated power supply like a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 and that should cut back on some of the noise... It's funny that you mention that, I JUST looked at a post that someone was mentioning about a lot of DC interference from the onespot and other daisy chain power supplies. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a lot of little problems like this that are adding up to be a big problem. Thank you for your input!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well, that's a whole lot of stuff in front of an amp. If you added up all the times since 1971 I've used pedals in front of an amp it wouldn't be enough times to use all of the pedals you have in front of your amp now. With that disclaimer out of the way, what kind of "rackmount eq" is it? And is it putting out line level or instrument? Does it need a balanced cable? The rest of the stuff is going to make some noise for sure. If the eq isn't the right thing for a guitar amp, it'll really mess stuff up. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 You got a lot going on there. For one, it sounds like you might have more than one issue, OR you are hearing things/discovering issues you had trying to find the first one. First I am going to say, sounds like a tube. When ever you have a drastic change in something with a tube amp, it is nearly always going to be a tube. It should be the first thing you check, because not only is it the most likely, but the easiest to fix. Second thing to say, is troubleshooting 101 is to isolate the problem. You can spend hours trying to guess, but guessing isn't action. Action is replicating the problem, and then removing things one at a time until the problem goes away, and you have found the offending device. Hiss in the Super (or any amp) could be a pre-amp tube. Obviously, unplug the amp to assure that it is the amp, and if it is hissing, take the pre-amp tubes out one at a time. If it goes away and another tube works.... A GOOD tip if you have spare tubes, keep a WHOLE set with you. Especially if you had a problem one night but it hasn't returned yet. If and when a tube goes, chances are pretty good it will happen when you are playing, and you won't have time to chase it down, so you just replace all of them. Even if the spare tubes are worn and aren't all that great, working is working. As for all these pedals, there is a lot that can happen. Obviously, if you are hearing bad things now, you got your work cut out for you unplugging one at a time and finding the one, or ones, causing grief. But pedals go bad...switches freak, power supplies bug out, etc. For example, if you have used a TS-9 (or Ibanez), the switch WILL go out at some point if you use it enough. So, you need a BACK UP plan. When the pedalbaord or one of your many devices decides to start bugging, you won't have time to find it, so decide what you NEED and be ready to widdle down quick at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Whatever is going on, the eq is amplifying the noise you are getting and should ideally be near the start of the effects chain. It did also occur to me (later) that a power supply may be producing noise in one of the pedals, which is being amplified. Alternately it may be an earth loop. All of it should be fixable but it's a matter of trial and error, unplugging and re-plugging and testing the various bits in order until you begin to see the source of the problem. I think it is most likely to be an fx chain problem rather than an amp tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here's my best Robert Stack impression UPDATE!!! ok that was it. So I took the eq out of the line and that helped a little bit and then I turned on the noise gate for the distortion and that helped reduce the noise as well. BUT the amp was still hissing even without anything being plugged in. I took out the preamp tube for the vibrato channel and the hissing stopped, put it back in and the hissing stopped... plugged the guitar in and......... I'm now at about 25% power output. I have tubes laying around so I am going to see if I can get this thing working right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Swapped all the tubes out and the volume output is still the same. I will now have to start looking for an amp guy because I believe the problem is internal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 ... idiot... I plugged my speakers into the ext. cab... but has anyone used GT AX7-C tubes before (groove tubes)? That is all my local shop carries. I may pay a visit to the tv repair shop, he has a tube tester there and I think he has some vintage stuff in the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 ... idiot... I plugged my speakers into the ext. cab... but has anyone used GT AX7-C tubes before (groove tubes)? That is all my local shop carries. I may pay a visit to the tv repair shop, he has a tube tester there and I think he has some vintage stuff in the back... Groove tubes buys different brands and makes, test them, and re-brands them as Groove tubes. The more important question, is WHAT tubes are they to begin with. The "C" in the 12AX7-C is for Chinese. Keep in mind I haven't tried any new tubes makes in at least 3 years, and things change. But as far as the 12AX7 goes, the Chinese one was at the very bottom of the list. Horrible sound. GT used to be the best in the business. I don't know if they are now, they could be. But the GT founder and owner, Aspen Pittman, sold it to Fender a few years ago. He also sold his amps, and the shop is gone. That tells me the only thing the same might be the testing equipment, and some of the guys. See your amp guy, if at least, to get some opinions on tubes. It wouldn't hurt to have the amp checked, maybe even serviced. It's WORTH the money. Also, is the Super a reissue, or origonal? What year? Last time it had caps? One more thing: you can check tubes the same as trouble shooting. Plug them into a working amp, and confirm good or not good. You could also isolate if it is a bad tube in the slot of the "offending" amp by plugging a known good tube in the slot. Knowing which tubes are good is valueable, especially for keeping spares. Feel free to check back on the different tube brands. Lots of guys here besides me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1998StandardSG Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Groove tubes buys different brands and makes, test them, and re-brands them as Groove tubes. The more important question, is WHAT tubes are they to begin with. The "C" in the 12AX7-C is for Chinese. Keep in mind I haven't tried any new tubes makes in at least 3 years, and things change. But as far as the 12AX7 goes, the Chinese one was at the very bottom of the list. Horrible sound. GT used to be the best in the business. I don't know if they are now, they could be. But the GT founder and owner, Aspen Pittman, sold it to Fender a few years ago. He also sold his amps, and the shop is gone. That tells me the only thing the same might be the testing equipment, and some of the guys. See your amp guy, if at least, to get some opinions on tubes. It wouldn't hurt to have the amp checked, maybe even serviced. It's WORTH the money. Also, is the Super a reissue, or origonal? What year? Last time it had caps? One more thing: you can check tubes the same as trouble shooting. Plug them into a working amp, and confirm good or not good. You could also isolate if it is a bad tube in the slot of the "offending" amp by plugging a known good tube in the slot. Knowing which tubes are good is valueable, especially for keeping spares. Feel free to check back on the different tube brands. Lots of guys here besides me. I pulled all the Chinese tubes out and pulled all the Groove Tube/Fender/Sovtek tubes out of my PA100 and put them in the super and the sound is much better. I think the problem was in the v1 of the vibrato channel. I'm going to look into different brands, but it seems that all I can find local are GTs. I will have to look online and place an order. I did find an adapter that will allow me to use EL tubes. I may experiment with that too. The sovtek tubes sound a lot better though and the hiss is, still there, but not at the level that it was. The amp is the first run of Super Reverb RI amps. I placed an order for it and had to wait 6 months to get it in! I love the amp and it sounds great when paired with the hot rod deluxe. As I mentioned I have the PA100, I may get an extention cab and pair it with the 100 OR I will convert the 100 to a Twin Reverb (I would love to do this) Thanks for all you input and help. As for the distortion hiss, I think it's just the nature of this model in particular. It's a metal distortion that I use on select songs. I also use Tube O.D. and blues driver pedals and don't have the same problem unless I'm running high gain. One pedal that I will suggest to steer away from if you find it used is the MXR Double Shot Distortion. That pedal is nothing but a noise box. But if you like hiss... then that's the pedal for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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